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Old 02-21-2016, 12:12 PM
 
9,056 posts, read 6,732,898 times
Reputation: 11008

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
I agree with your overall point. There are indeed differences of what works best for the mom and/or dad and as you stated clearly, what works best for THEIR career fields. No doubt. I get where you're coming from.

But in my view, the focus shouldn't be about the ideal schedule of the parent(s), work or play that works for them. The focus shouldn't be SAHM, WM, what works best for one's career, or non-working mothers/parent for that matter who are horrible parents yet are present, etc. The common thread in all of this again that I don't agree with is "Me", and what works best for "me"/my schedule, my career. "Me" is taken out of the sentence, and replaced with what works best for "my kid", especially a young infant/young kid who's not in full time school yet.

You see, I come from a different environment. My mom and the people within our family, one parent dropped THEIR career when it was time to have a kid(s) to spend full time with the child(s). Planning was done to prepare for this event, both mental and $ wise. A few material things might be off the purchase list to make this happen. The mentality shifted from what's best for MY schedule thinking to spending full time with an infant/young child and what's best for the kids was the end result. The goal.

Yes, this type of "mentality" doesn't work for everyone. It obviously doesn't work for many parents as the vast majority of people seem to have both parents(where they exist) work to various degrees, more than a few work many hours, don't see their kids often. This is a fact. Full time day care is so popular is the end result in many cases. I got that loud and clear. I am simply presenting my view on what worked out great and what I feel having a kid is about and what's best for a kid. If people get ruffled over this mindset, that's in their control, not mine.

As for "know-it-all posters", again, we are on CD and like myself, and are allowed to express our views on various topics. Now, if I go down the street, knock on someone's door, see someone in the grocery store, etc. and start spouting off my view on this topic? Sure, they have every right to say get lost, I'm "fed up with your view", etc. Why? Because that's not the forum, the proper venue, to share/express such ideas, express our views on something. CD is. I think some of you need to understand what CD is about and it's just not parroting views that a group or single person feels strongly about. It's about sharing different mindsets, often far different than our own. And just because someone like myself has a strong view on something doesn't mean one has to take my advice, believe it, or let alone read it. I'm putting out there what I believe as you are. Sharing different points of view. For myself, I look at it as educating myself on a different view and sometime I switch to a different side if someone makes a persuasive point on a topic. Other times, like on this topic, I can't get past the "me" thinking of many parents and what I have experienced around me over the years and I believe I never will. But that view shouldn't be offensive or get people worked up. It's my view as you have yours. And life goes on....another day on CD. I think there are bigger problems in life out there to get "fed up with" than other posters views on CD we disagree with strongly but if that's your approach to it all, that's your choice of course.



I know, imagine, people having different views on politics yet aren't politicians. People expressing views on food that aren't cooks. What's the world coming to!

Yet here you are, arguing the point with people here who have done exactly that.
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Old 02-21-2016, 12:19 PM
 
9,056 posts, read 6,732,898 times
Reputation: 11008
In hindsight, I actually think my kid would have been better off spending a bit less time with me in her early years.

I was so concerned about attachment and being there that I think I did her a disservice, if anyone's interested in the reality of it all.

Kids need to be used to being without their parents, because at the tender age of 3 or 4 they really do need to go off to preschool and try out a bit of independence, otherwise at 5 they will be totally ill prepared for kindergarten, and the separation that goes with it.
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Old 02-21-2016, 12:22 PM
 
10,090 posts, read 6,509,210 times
Reputation: 23714
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
In hindsight, I actually think my kid would have been better off spending a bit less time with me in her early years.

I was so concerned about attachment and being there that I think I did her a disservice, if anyone's interested in the reality of it all.

Kids need to be used to being without their parents, because at the tender age of 3 or 4 they really do need to go off to preschool and try out a bit of independence, otherwise at 5 they will be totally ill prepared for kindergarten, and the separation that goes with it.
Balance is key, of course
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Old 02-21-2016, 12:24 PM
 
Location: here
24,477 posts, read 28,773,973 times
Reputation: 31056
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
I agree with your overall point. There are indeed differences of what works best for the mom and/or dad and as you stated clearly, what works best for THEIR career fields. No doubt. I get where you're coming from.

But in my view, the focus shouldn't be about the ideal schedule of the parent(s), work or play that works for them. The focus shouldn't be SAHM, WM, what works best for one's career, or non-working mothers/parent for that matter who are horrible parents yet are present, etc. The common thread in all of this again that I don't agree with is "Me", and what works best for "me"/my schedule, my career. "Me" is taken out of the sentence, and replaced with what works best for "my kid", especially a young infant/young kid who's not in full time school yet.

You see, I come from a different environment. My mom and the people within our family, one parent dropped THEIR career when it was time to have a kid(s) to spend full time with the child(s). Planning was done to prepare for this event, both mental and $ wise. A few material things might be off the purchase list to make this happen. The mentality shifted from what's best for MY schedule thinking to spending full time with an infant/young child and what's best for the kids was the end result. The goal.

Yes, this type of "mentality" doesn't work for everyone. It obviously doesn't work for many parents as the vast majority of people seem to have both parents(where they exist) work to various degrees, more than a few work many hours, don't see their kids often. This is a fact. Full time day care is so popular is the end result in many cases. I got that loud and clear. I am simply presenting my view on what worked out great and what I feel having a kid is about and what's best for a kid. If people get ruffled over this mindset, that's in their control, not mine.

As for "know-it-all posters", again, we are on CD and like myself, and are allowed to express our views on various topics. Now, if I go down the street, knock on someone's door, see someone in the grocery store, etc. and start spouting off my view on this topic? Sure, they have every right to say get lost, I'm "fed up with your view", etc. Why? Because that's not the forum, the proper venue, to share/express such ideas, express our views on something. CD is. I think some of you need to understand what CD is about and it's just not parroting views that a group or single person feels strongly about. It's about sharing different mindsets, often far different than our own. And just because someone like myself has a strong view on something doesn't mean one has to take my advice, believe it, or let alone read it. I'm putting out there what I believe as you are. Sharing different points of view. For myself, I look at it as educating myself on a different view and sometime I switch to a different side if someone makes a persuasive point on a topic. Other times, like on this topic, I can't get past the "me" thinking of many parents and what I have experienced around me over the years and I believe I never will. But that view shouldn't be offensive or get people worked up. It's my view as you have yours. And life goes on....another day on CD. I think there are bigger problems in life out there to get "fed up with" than other posters views on CD we disagree with strongly but if that's your approach to it all, that's your choice of course.



I know, imagine, people having different views on politics yet aren't politicians. People expressing views on food that aren't cooks. People who like/don't like certain cars yet aren't engineers in automotive design. Non-musicians who dislike/like certain types of music. What's the world coming to?
The fact that you refer to what your parents did and not what you, as a parent have done solidifies my suspicion that you don't have kids. As such, you wouldn't understand that when you become a parent, EVERY decision becomes about the kids. I'm not just speaking for myself, but for most decent parents out there. Sure there are some selfish parents, but for the most part, you give your life over to what is best for them.

Also, you have no idea what kind of discussions went on behind closed doors when making these decisions. How much time a person has invested in their career, how much time off they have accrued, how much seniority, how flexible their work schedule is, long term loss of earning power, family close by to help, how much stimulation they want their kid to have at what age, how much maternity leave they can get, how they can afford to live in the best school district, etc. You act like they just make their choices on a whim without thinking about it. These are adults. They get it. They are capable of weighing their options and doing what is right for them. There is no way for you to know what is right for other people, so stop trying.
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Old 02-21-2016, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,584,462 times
Reputation: 7672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
The fact that you refer to what your parents did and not what you, as a parent have done solidifies my suspicion that you don't have kids. As such, you wouldn't understand that when you become a parent, EVERY decision becomes about the kids. I'm not just speaking for myself, but for most decent parents out there. Sure there are some selfish parents, but for the most part, you give your life over to what is best for them.

Also, you have no idea what kind of discussions went on behind closed doors when making these decisions. How much time a person has invested in their career, how much time off they have accrued, how much seniority, how flexible their work schedule is, long term loss of earning power, family close by to help, how much stimulation they want their kid to have at what age, how much maternity leave they can get, how they can afford to live in the best school district, etc. You act like they just make their choices on a whim without thinking about it. These are adults. They get it. They are capable of weighing their options and doing what is right for them. There is no way for you to know what is right for other people, so stop trying.
I see you didn't read my post carefully:

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
You see, I come from a different environment. My mom and the people within our family, one parent dropped THEIR career when it was time to have a kid(s) to spend full time with the child(s). Planning was done to prepare for this event, both mental and $ wise. A few material things might be off the purchase list to make this happen. The mentality shifted from what's best for MY schedule thinking to spending full time with an infant/young child and what's best for the kids was the end result. The goal.
And there is no way they know what's right for me/our family either, that's not the point, we are expressing views/opinions. And it's frankly not your business what my personal life is about anymore than I should know/want to know yours.

Again, it's MY OPINION, VIEW, on the matter, expressing it on CD.

Opinion/View definition: "a personal view, attitude, or appraisal. "

I will not "stop trying" to express my views as it's my right to express an opinion on CD. May I suggest you stop being so controlling on a forum that is about free expression on a given topic. That I believe is against the rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
Yet here you are, arguing the point with people here who have done exactly that.
Who's arguing? I'm expressing my view as you are.
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Old 02-21-2016, 12:47 PM
 
Location: here
24,477 posts, read 28,773,973 times
Reputation: 31056
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
I see you didn't read my post carefully:



And there is no way they know what's right for me/our family either, that's not the point, we are expressing views/opinions. And it's frankly not your business what my personal life is about anymore than I should know/want to know yours.

Again, it's MY OPINION, VIEW, on the matter, expressing it on CD.

Opinion/View definition: "a personal view, attitude, or appraisal. "

I will not "stop trying" to express my views as it's my right to express an opinion on CD. May I suggest you stop being so controlling on a forum that is about free expression on a given topic. That I believe is against the rules.
I get it. It is your opinion that every young child should have a SAHP. It is my opinion that each case is different and that isn't the best answer for everyone. I'm not the controlling one, you are.

You've spent pages and pages trying to convince everyone that being a SAHP is best. No one here has said that being a WP is best, only that each case is unique. So why do you keep on this if you are only talking about your own situation.
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Old 02-21-2016, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,584,462 times
Reputation: 7672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
I get it. It is your opinion that every young child should have a SAHP. It is my opinion that each case is different and that isn't the best answer for everyone. I'm not the controlling one, you are.
Yes, it's my opinion that it's best for a child to have a stay at home parent, especially in their infant years.

So having an opinion on a matter in what I feel is best for a child is now "controlling"?
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Old 02-21-2016, 01:03 PM
 
5,023 posts, read 4,567,386 times
Reputation: 3190
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
I never said it is was equal or even mentioned fairness, I just said the hours a day spend parenting and on the home are always going to be more than any job.

And once more, despite what you think and what is parroted by the fictional wife, the scenario you paint above is not the majority or even a substantial minority and your obsession with it is vaguely disturbing.

ETA:

Aren't you the guy who said "One male poster said that he is willing to earn 100% of the income and do 50% of the housework and childcare tasks, since it gives him access to better looking women than he would otherwise have access to. Unfortunately his attitude is bringing down the entire male gender."

Access to? Do you even have kids? Why are you in the parenting forum talking about "access to better looking women"?
Take it up with the poster who said that, not me. He didn't use that exact phrase, but that was the overall theme of his post.

And I'll say it again: I am married, so I have a real wife, not a fictional one, and she agrees with me, not you.
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Old 02-21-2016, 01:05 PM
 
5,023 posts, read 4,567,386 times
Reputation: 3190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
Agrees with which part? That division of labor should be based on money earned? What if you both work 40 hours but one makes $10/hr and one makes $20/hour? The $10 earner should do more housework even though they spend the same amt of time at work?

Or she thinks there is an epidemic of SAHP sitting around all day and letting the breadwinner also do all the chores?
She agrees with me that if the husband is the one making most or all of the income, she wife should be doing most of the housework, or vice versa.
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Old 02-21-2016, 01:09 PM
 
9,056 posts, read 6,732,898 times
Reputation: 11008
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevek64 View Post
I see you didn't read my post carefully:



And there is no way they know what's right for me/our family either, that's not the point, we are expressing views/opinions. And it's frankly not your business what my personal life is about anymore than I should know/want to know yours.

Again, it's MY OPINION, VIEW, on the matter, expressing it on CD.

Opinion/View definition: "a personal view, attitude, or appraisal. "

I will not "stop trying" to express my views as it's my right to express an opinion on CD. May I suggest you stop being so controlling on a forum that is about free expression on a given topic. That I believe is against the rules.



Who's arguing? I'm expressing my view as you are.

Well I'm not sure that's the case. If you haven't experienced it first hand either way, then your opinions are theories. Interesting theories that contribute to the conversation, but theories nonetheless.

For others, who have done either or or especially both, it goes beyond opinion and theory to experience.

Thats not to say one's opinion is worthless by any means, but perhaps it would behoove one to listen more and talk less, when it comes to talking with people who actually have lived this and not just observed it.
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