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Old 03-06-2008, 03:46 PM
 
1,623 posts, read 5,766,910 times
Reputation: 438

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nic529 View Post
Sorry - but it seems to me your the one with the blinders on. The scenario in which you describe is also the same time period where "beatings" were a normal part of life for a kid. And women didn't feel they were worthy enough for the education but motherhood is what they were "supposed" to do. They took etiquette and cooking classes! Time to move on with the times - if your happy being barefoot and pregnant - cleaning and cooking and doing all those "womanly" things - then good for you. I applaud any parent who stays home with their kids -but to say that they are being selfish and not good parents because they have a career is so incredibly ignorant!

And I'd have to agree with Kristy on Flinstones analogy - it just shows what your kids are doing all day - because apparently your watching it with them. At least June Cleaver put the apron on and made it look good.
Nice try. I'm a SAHD and am a second gen SAHD! In my family the women go to work the men raise the kids, cook, clean AND do the more typical Dad stuff as well.

So cry me a river about your lack of fulfillment. I stepped away from a high 5 figure salary to do what I thought was right. My wife would've done the same.

You can spin it any way you want, paying strangers to raise your kids simply because you have better things to do is irresponsible and selfish.

For the record, my kids are allowed 2 hours of tv a day, period. And its more like Noggin or Thomas, no Flintstones.

People who believe they can have it all, right now, without sacrifice, are the ignorant ones. Life is full of choices and people have to live with the consequences of those choices. When did it become rational to put so much value on a career outside the home while making the most important job you will ever have a part time one?

Why can't personal fulfillment come from raising fine upstanding citizens? Never mind all the old school housewife stuff.

I think the baby was thrown out with the bathwater with the women's movement but the pendulum is starting to swing back the other way as evidenced by the growing number of SAHMs and SAHDs and those who are willing to put career on hold for a while while they raise their kids...

I guess they're all crazy though, huh? Why would they want to waste 5+ good years of earning and ladder climbing to feed, clothe, diaper, burp, get covered in poop and pee and puke? It's not like they're raising a future generation or anything, right? Nah, nothing that can't be outsourced...

 
Old 03-06-2008, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Burlington County NJ
1,969 posts, read 5,297,304 times
Reputation: 2657
Ohhhhhhhh......I see now......you got stuck with all the "womans work" so your a little bitter. Don't worry .....it'll be ok.....


Get off your high horse pal...your not better then anyone else because you "chose" to stay home with your kids. I was a SAHM too....I also ran a daycare in my home and watched the kids of those other people you speak of ...and let me tell you.....I did not "raise" those kids....I was the babysitter - plain and simple. Yes, I bonded with them....yes we has special moments together...but you know what...those kids knew exactly who their mommy's and daddy's were...there was no confusion there. Get real.
 
Old 03-06-2008, 03:58 PM
 
3,647 posts, read 9,339,099 times
Reputation: 5427
I've got to say... I'm a sahm and I like to think I spend the time with my kids, but the few sahds I've met are soooo much more active than ANY sahm I've ever met... maybe it's a perception thing or a gender thing? We knew a sahd (fraternal twins) back in Albuquerque and MAN! When his wife described his schedule to me... it wore me out! And it was tough for him... I could easily find a playgroup or mom and me class, but men? Well, who wants their Stay at home wife to be spending time with another man, even with the kids around? Although our boys were best buds, we only saw the children (outside preschool) when mom took a day off to give dad a break. We'd schedule playdates for those days and the sahd would go play golf.
 
Old 03-06-2008, 04:02 PM
 
3,647 posts, read 9,339,099 times
Reputation: 5427
This thread really took another turn for nasty. That said, I'll jump right in.

If a woman chooses to work and have kids... more power to her. I don't understand women who CHOOSE to have a baby and drop that baby off at daycare for 10-12 hours a day beginning at 3-6 weeks old... not really a person I'd like to know. But I've met more of those than the ones who work to put food on the table. Probably because the ones busy putting food on the table are too busy (and too cash strapped) for any of the leisure activities I enjoy with and without my kids.
 
Old 03-06-2008, 04:09 PM
 
15,210 posts, read 16,117,725 times
Reputation: 25175
I don't understand women who CHOOSE to have a baby and drop that baby off at daycare for 10-12 hours a day beginning at 3-6 weeks old... not really a person I'd like to know.

How about 9 hours a day starting at 10 weeks old?

You might really like me if you got to know me. After I get home from work, which I enjoy, and which pays the bills and allows me to save for our retirement and her college, I cook dinner, sit down to eat with my husband and daughter, help her with her homework if she needs it and take her to dance class on the days she goes. I also take her to the doctor when she's sick, teach Sunday School and volunteer with the PTA at her school. On the weekends we garden together, ride bikes, walk the dog, play board games and she has the occasional sleepover.

I'm really not an unlikeable person, even though I choose to work and enjoy it.
 
Old 03-06-2008, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Burlington County NJ
1,969 posts, read 5,297,304 times
Reputation: 2657
Quote:
Originally Posted by sskkc View Post
This thread really took another turn for nasty. That said, I'll jump right in.

If a woman chooses to work and have kids... more power to her. I don't understand women who CHOOSE to have a baby and drop that baby off at daycare for 10-12 hours a day beginning at 3-6 weeks old... not really a person I'd like to know. But I've met more of those than the ones who work to put food on the table. Probably because the ones busy putting food on the table are too busy (and too cash strapped) for any of the leisure activities I enjoy with and without my kids.
I personally couldn't put my kids in daycare like that....thats why I stayed at home. BUT that was the decision that was right for ME. I know plenty of women that couldn't stay home because they didn't have the patience to be with them all day and should have sent them to daycare. And, as an example ....my one friend stayed home for a year....she was miserable .....had a blast with the baby, but she felt lonely and closed off etc. She put the toddler in daycare and went to work 3 days a week, got her grown up time, got her time to use her brain....and is happy as a clam. And her daughter is just fine. I think that if a woman wants to have a family and a career, then daycares or babysitters make that possible. And as long as you can pay for it...why not. Yes....10 -12 hours a day is excessive and obviously not good for a child of any age.....but I know a lot of mothers with kids of all ages.....some went to daycare, some didn't ......honestly - the ones who went to daycare...were more adjusted for kindergarten and resolving issues with other kids......and none of them ended up with speech delays or being referred to the special ed class.

I'm not saying either way is wrong, or that one choice is better then the other. I'm saying that different things work for different people. Neither way is worse then the other, and neither is wrong. Its kinda like Brunettes being smarter then Blondes ....its just not true.
 
Old 03-06-2008, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Lehigh Valley
1,030 posts, read 3,805,873 times
Reputation: 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by orrmobl View Post
People who believe they can have it all, right now, without sacrifice, are the ignorant ones.
God help me, but I agree with this part of your statement. Can we have it all? Sure, just not all at the same time.

I got my masters degree in a field that I love with the full knowledge that I would not be using that degree until many years down the line. I did this so that I would have options when and if I decided to return to work.

Like I said earlier, for me and my family it's important that I be home with the kids FT, but that's just us, and I absolutely think that staying home FT is not for everyone. Better to have happy parents then parents who feel overwhelmed and isolated, because for the record being home all the time can be both.
 
Old 03-06-2008, 05:13 PM
 
Location: USA
1,244 posts, read 2,826,232 times
Reputation: 765
Quote:
Originally Posted by orrmobl View Post
People who believe they can have it all, right now, without sacrifice, are the ignorant ones. Life is full of choices and people have to live with the consequences of those choices. When did it become rational to put so much value on a career outside the home while making the most important job you will ever have a part time one?
I have to say that I agree with this statement. Now I do not put down anyone be it a SAHM, SAHD or those that choose a career. However, I think I get what orrmobl is trying to say. It is not about those that choose to have a career so they can provide the necessities that their family has. The opinion is more directed to those who have a choice and who choose to put their career ABOVE their family, particularly their children.

I can understand that feeling and too feel that it is wrong. Not wrong to have a career, but wrong for the career to come before or above the children. Children do not ask to be brought into the world, they are brought into the world by a decision that parents make. When that decision is made, the cost of such decision needs to be considered and among those costs are the needs the children have to active parenting, not a parents left over energy for an hour or two at the end of the day.

I think what the poster is trying to say is that a lot of people, i.e. parents, have become so wrapped up in keeping up with the Jone's and all the materialist things such as the fancy cars, the fancy house etc. that the kids get lost in the shuffle.

I myself became a mother at 19. It was a choice I made. I put school and career aside and stayed at home with my children. They were my priority before anything else. Not that I wouldn't have enjoyed school and a career, but I knew there would be time for that later, at that time my kids needed me. Since we didn't need my income at the time in order to pay the bills, put food on the table, clothes on the back and have a little bit for extra's, this is what felt right to me. There was a time that the finances were suffering and I did have to go to work for a short span. I choose a family friend to watch my kids. My son suffered from chronic ear infections and fiebral seizures and so if he had a fever I had to stay with him until it went down before sending him to the sitter. This did not sit well with my employer and I was actually told they didn't care about my child just that I was there at 8 am. I quit and told them, I could replace my job, I could not replace my son.

I think this is what the poster is trying to say. It boils down to where are the priorities. I know many career women that MUST have the career because they are either single or because their income is just needed. These women feel it everytime they have to drop off their child at daycare or they have to miss a field trip or school play. I also know many women, whose income is not needed, that are perfectly content in their careers with super long hours and much traveling away and have no problem with never attending any event their child is in or having a nanny raise their child, because they are fulfilled with their career.

I would not trade a moment that I spent with my kids growing up. Not one field trip, modeling event, sporting event. I would not trade a moment of being a classroom mom and mentor at my children's school. I was the one carpooling everyone around rather than having my child driven everywhere by someone else. My career was my children and I found my fulfillment in that.

Now that my kids are 19 and 15, I am a full time college student going for my AA in Paralegal Studies, upon getting that I will obtain a job in that field and continue for my BA and possibly Masters in Legal Studies. Who knows, I may even go on to law school. Now it is becoming time for me, though I could have done it sooner I choose to wait until my youngest would be a Junior and able to drive herself. Now I can pursue a career.

Currently I am studying in my college courses Microeconomics and its funny because the discussion this week in class has been "The cost of something is what you in fact have to give up in order to obtain it". I wonder how many of those that do not need a career, but are choosing to have demanding ones are considering what the cost of that career truly is.

Please understand I am not putting down working parents. I know some have to. I even understand that "having to" being a need to simply get out of the house for a while. My opinion, as I believe the poster was also saying, is more towards those that have placed Career's as a priority over raising their own children, for the sake of the materialistic things and keeping up an image. Or those who have placed themselves in a position of "having" to have this career above family because they have choosen to live above their means and now can not afford to step back and parent their children.

We see the problems with children particularly around middle school and high school. Many of these troubled youth are coming from homes where neither parent is really accessible to them. Even in elementary we see the "latch key kids". Children raising themselves or being raised by others. Children getting lost in this world and getting in trouble with things like gangs, drugs, alcohol and where are some of their parents? Busy with their careers. Living in the River of Deniel and some, especially in the area that I live, tossing out $100's to their children and saying here go buy yourself something at the mall, as if this takes care of their responsibilities.

When I see these troubled youth and how detached and uninvolved their parents are I think this is sad in the cases where the parents are so busy pursuing careers out of need, but even sadder in those cases where it is because of nothing more than wanting all the latest gadgets, the coolest car and all the material things that in the end, perish, because you can't take any of it with you. However, what you take time to instill in your children, that will carry on long after you are gone.

Sorry this is long and truly I don't mean it to insult anyone, this is just sharing my opinion and view on priorities once kids come into the picture. I know there are also MANY very good, loving, nurturing parents out there that despite having a career, make their children a priority.
 
Old 03-06-2008, 06:12 PM
 
5,244 posts, read 4,217,315 times
Reputation: 1837
funny, a lot of times, I feel like I failed that I could not balance my work with my children...hmmmm.............
 
Old 03-06-2008, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
421 posts, read 1,210,039 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by orrmobl View Post
Yeah behind the scenes they are horribly selfish people who never should have had kids in the first place. They are lazy parents and would rather have someone else do what they perceive as the "dirty work" of parenting, completely missing the point of all the wonderful things they are missing out on while they are "fulfilling" themselves working a million hours to buy material things for their kids who only want their attention.

My one friend's husband drops the baby off at 7:30 AM every day even though he doesn't have to start work til 9 and often works late nights. Her excuse for why he can't spend an hour with his daughter in the morning before school? "He needs to take a shower and can't do that with her there"! I explained the several methods of accomplishing such a task to which she replied, "We don't let the baby in the bathroom bc we are afraid of her going near the toilet"! That poor kid is already an emotional wreck... I only hope this is one of those cases where the daycare will do a better job raising her than her own parents...and they just had another baby! I do not get it...

The child is in daycare 11 hours a day! And the husband looks at it as "getting the maximum value" out of the money spent on daycare...how sick is that? That's one of the reasons people don't spring their kids: they already paid for it, so they feel they need to use it. The other is that they are bad/lazy parents (esp the husband who doesn't want to be "bothered" on his day off!) and want that time to themselves...I don't know why these people reproduce or lack the insight to realize they are selfish BEFORE having kids...

I've had several friends tell me they shouldn't have had kids...after having one or two! How ridiculously sad is that for these children? The whole situation makes me sick to my stomach.

I read a post online once re: how some people have no qualms about daycare. "Would you allow another woman to care for your husband? No? Then why is it so easy to let someone else raise your child?"
It isn't easy to send your child to daycare, it is the hardest thing for me to do, sometimes, we single parents HAVE NO CHOICE.
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