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Old 02-19-2008, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Wake Forest
934 posts, read 932,663 times
Reputation: 326

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Quote:
Originally Posted by austinsmom View Post
LOL...I'd be one to ask Why? Not in a bad way though. I loved my epidural since my labor was long and difficult. I'd have probably died from the pain without it But again, that's a personal decision.
2 kids one without drugs (not really my choice- dilated too fast), and one with drugs.

I like drugs. lol

My sis had her first baby about 6 months after I had my son, and she is one of the all natural kinda people, and did it drug free, and said shed do it again! I tease her for her ways, but love her to death, and shes an AWESOME mommy!

I still say I like the drugs better...lol
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Old 02-19-2008, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Eastern PA
1,263 posts, read 4,285,647 times
Reputation: 1154
I parent the best I know how. To me, that means countless hours of research on various parenting topics. I have one son on the autism spectrum, so I avoid many things I believe could be a trigger and I use much alternative medicine. That also for me means BFing until self-weaning, avoiding drugs in labor because my first son was impaired by them, and baby-wearing. This all works for me. I don't expect my way to work for anyone else and I certainly wouldn't tell anyone what to do.

Many times online especially, I think things get misconstrued online. When I state that "breast is best" or what worked for me, I am stating fact. I am not telling you that formula will kill your child. I see many on parenting boards asking for advice and then getting offended when the advice given doesn't suit them.

However, when did the highly offensive term "Nazi" become OK to toss around in a breastfeeding context? I find that to be in the poorest taste of all.
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Old 02-19-2008, 07:43 PM
 
Location: South FL
9,444 posts, read 14,986,181 times
Reputation: 8014
Quote:
Originally Posted by karen_s View Post
I parent the best I know how. To me, that means countless hours of research on various parenting topics. I have one son on the autism spectrum, so I avoid many things I believe could be a trigger and I use much alternative medicine. That also for me means BFing until self-weaning, avoiding drugs in labor because my first son was impaired by them, and baby-wearing. This all works for me. I don't expect my way to work for anyone else and I certainly wouldn't tell anyone what to do.

Many times online especially, I think things get misconstrued online. When I state that "breast is best" or what worked for me, I am stating fact. I am not telling you that formula will kill your child. I see many on parenting boards asking for advice and then getting offended when the advice given doesn't suit them.

However, when did the highly offensive term "Nazi" become OK to toss around in a breastfeeding context? I find that to be in the poorest taste of all.
I know. That's why I kind of tried to stay away from this thread because some of the comments were so offensive. People who claim to be "non-judgemental" can be the most judgemental ones.

I also think breast is best. It's a fact. That doesn't mean that formula babies will be any less healthier then BF baby. I tried nursing and I only did it for 4 months. I wanted to nurse until self-weaning but couldn't produce milk anymore. I tried all kind of herbs and pumping until blue, but nothing helped. I was sad to wean, but had to. I heard comments like: "oh, I wish you nursed longer". You know what? I wish for the same! These people are just stating the fact. I think that when people get offended by "breast is best" comments are usually the ones who beat themselves up the most.

By the way, I love baby-wearing!!!!
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Old 02-19-2008, 08:18 PM
 
Location: bumcrack Nebraska
438 posts, read 1,360,597 times
Reputation: 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by karen_s View Post
However, when did the highly offensive term "Nazi" become OK to toss around in a breastfeeding context? I find that to be in the poorest taste of all.
I understand how someone can be offended by the term "breastfeeding Nazis". The Nazis were horrible people. Some of us have just been so offended by those who take their fanatical bf beliefs and impose them on every non-bf mom out there. Its mean, offensive, and honestly kinda ignorant. It was highly offensive to me when I was harshly judged for not nursing long enough or not trying hard enough. Yes, breast is best. We all get that. Milk made for a baby human is probably better than milk made for a baby cow. But sometimes it just doesn't work out that way. Luckily we have the choice now if bf doesn't work out.

I'm truly sorry if I come across as offensive. I meant this thread as a way for moms to vent about all the judging we are exposed to. I'm just trying to explain how deeply hurt some women are by bf fanatics and how the term "Nazi" came to be related to such women.
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Old 02-19-2008, 08:23 PM
 
2,838 posts, read 8,844,735 times
Reputation: 2857
Quote:
Originally Posted by karen_s View Post
I parent the best I know how. To me, that means countless hours of research on various parenting topics. I have one son on the autism spectrum, so I avoid many things I believe could be a trigger and I use much alternative medicine. That also for me means BFing until self-weaning, avoiding drugs in labor because my first son was impaired by them, and baby-wearing. This all works for me. I don't expect my way to work for anyone else and I certainly wouldn't tell anyone what to do.

Many times online especially, I think things get misconstrued online. When I state that "breast is best" or what worked for me, I am stating fact. I am not telling you that formula will kill your child. I see many on parenting boards asking for advice and then getting offended when the advice given doesn't suit them.

However, when did the highly offensive term "Nazi" become OK to toss around in a breastfeeding context? I find that to be in the poorest taste of all.
Yes, excellent post! It was what I was trying to say a few pages ago but you said it much more eloquently. Thank you!
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Old 02-19-2008, 08:57 PM
 
Location: San Antonio-Westover Hills
6,878 posts, read 17,814,730 times
Reputation: 5139
I don't tell anybody IRL if I breastfed or whether I had a c-section. If they don't already know, they can't possibly be close enough to me to understand. It's also none of anyone's business. I don't tell just anyone IRL that my daughter has autism. I could care less about the looks or the judgments. That's their problem, not mine. We are all seeking to be equal and approved in some way but it will never happen, because there are too many people up on their pedestals who claim their way is the ONLY way.
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Old 02-19-2008, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Chicago's burbs
1,013 posts, read 4,062,552 times
Reputation: 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by karen_s View Post
I parent the best I know how. To me, that means countless hours of research on various parenting topics. I have one son on the autism spectrum, so I avoid many things I believe could be a trigger and I use much alternative medicine. That also for me means BFing until self-weaning, avoiding drugs in labor because my first son was impaired by them, and baby-wearing. This all works for me. I don't expect my way to work for anyone else and I certainly wouldn't tell anyone what to do.

Many times online especially, I think things get misconstrued online. When I state that "breast is best" or what worked for me, I am stating fact. I am not telling you that formula will kill your child. I see many on parenting boards asking for advice and then getting offended when the advice given doesn't suit them.

However, when did the highly offensive term "Nazi" become OK to toss around in a breastfeeding context? I find that to be in the poorest taste of all.
Karen S, I truely know where you are coming from. I truley do. I was the one who first threw out the term breastfeeding nazi, and it wasn't meant to be offensive to breastfeeding women, I was expressing my frustration that breastfeeding didn't work out for me, and I was made to feel bad about it. It's not the breastfeeding I'm mad at, it's the people who make me feel like less of a Mom because it didn't work out for me. I really didn't mean to offend. And like I said, I really do know where you come from. My younger brother has 18Q-, a chromosome disorder and autism along with it. My mother is very in to natural medicine and worrys a lot about the affects of drugs, etc. because of what she has gone through with my brother. It's understandable that you feel the way you do, and my comments were not ment to offend. I just get annoyed when people militantly push their beliefs on others and make people feel bad, no matter what those beliefs are.
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Old 02-19-2008, 11:49 PM
 
Location: The mountians of Northern California.
1,354 posts, read 5,627,670 times
Reputation: 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by regarese View Post
but I can speak "Evelynese"
That is great, I am going to borrow it for my relative, lol.
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:55 AM
 
Location: Chicago's burbs
1,013 posts, read 4,062,552 times
Reputation: 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by momlady530 View Post
I understand how someone can be offended by the term "breastfeeding Nazis". The Nazis were horrible people. Some of us have just been so offended by those who take their fanatical bf beliefs and impose them on every non-bf mom out there. Its mean, offensive, and honestly kinda ignorant. It was highly offensive to me when I was harshly judged for not nursing long enough or not trying hard enough. Yes, breast is best. We all get that. Milk made for a baby human is probably better than milk made for a baby cow. But sometimes it just doesn't work out that way. Luckily we have the choice now if bf doesn't work out.

I'm truly sorry if I come across as offensive. I meant this thread as a way for moms to vent about all the judging we are exposed to. I'm just trying to explain how deeply hurt some women are by bf fanatics and how the term "Nazi" came to be related to such women.
Yes, this is exactly the point I was trying to make. I will not use the term nazi anymore, there are better and less offensive words I can use in its place.
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Old 02-20-2008, 07:00 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 65,265,344 times
Reputation: 22271
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbd78 View Post
Karen S, I truely know where you are coming from. I truley do. I was the one who first threw out the term breastfeeding nazi, and it wasn't meant to be offensive to breastfeeding women, I was expressing my frustration that breastfeeding didn't work out for me, and I was made to feel bad about it. It's not the breastfeeding I'm mad at, it's the people who make me feel like less of a Mom because it didn't work out for me. I really didn't mean to offend. And like I said, I really do know where you come from. My younger brother has 18Q-, a chromosome disorder and autism along with it. My mother is very in to natural medicine and worrys a lot about the affects of drugs, etc. because of what she has gone through with my brother. It's understandable that you feel the way you do, and my comments were not ment to offend. I just get annoyed when people militantly push their beliefs on others and make people feel bad, no matter what those beliefs are.
I have been using the term BF nazis for five years now, ever since my dear friend was made to feel like she was a failure and a "bad mommy" b/c she could not successfully BF after her C-section.

I am totally pro-BF - IF POSSIBLE AND WORKABLE. As I stated earlier, I BF my son for 9 months. I believe there is a great need for Lactation Counselors and I encourage other mothers to BF. However, the term "Lactation Nazis" or whatever else you want to call these overly aggressive, mean spirited people seems to fit very nicely in my vocabulary. Plus, it gets the point across that some women seem to take this arrogant attitude that they are "better mothers" and use the fact that other women either chose not to BF or were incapable of it as a way to disparage and condescend.

If you are not that type of person - who is aggressive and arrogant and mean-spirited about BFing, then obviously, the term does not apply to you. But I think for those who are, perhaps it is a good thing to have a term that is so disliked to make the point how heinous it is to tear down a new mother's self esteem and make her feel guilty and ashamed about herself as a woman simply b/c she is not BFing. So I make no apologies whatsoever for using the term. If you are not acting that way, then the term does not apply to you, so why be so overly sensitive.

I have a daughter in law that I don't always think makes the best decisions about such things as what she feeds her children. But I keep my mouth shut b/c I know she is doing her best. I suggest by my actions in what I put on the table, how I prepare things and hope that she will ask questions and learn by my example. The stories she relays about how snooty other moms can be - judgmental, arrogant, condescending - about everything from what stroller you are using to how many classes you have your children enrolled in - are outrageous. I have heard this from my younger sister, too.

My point is - women should be supporting women - and if necessary - call those out - call it what it is - when women are being judgmental to other women. I have the perspective of having raised my kids and I assure you, whether you believe this now or not . . . you may think your child is exceptional . . . you may think your child has challenges to overcome . . . you may think your methods are so much better than your neighbor's . . . you may think you are totally confused . . . in the end, these kids grow up, go to to school, and they have their own interests, personalities, and abilities . . . and they all turn out pretty much the same.

YES. That is the truth. Look around you. All the adults around you were once kids. They were kids w/ ADD, ADHD, learning disabilities, allergies, physical impairments . . . and they grew up, they adapted, they learned and now they are your neighbors and . . . tell me . . . can you point out who on your street took ritalin? Can you point out who is dyslexic? Can you point out who had speech problems? Can you point out which ones their parents insisted were so much smarter than their peers? Can you point out the bedwetters? Can you point out the ones who were in rehab for eating disorders? Can you point out who had scoliosis and had to wear a brace for the first years of his/her life? Can you point out who graduated in the top 10% of his/her high school class? Can you point out who got the "photography award" or the "math award" in high school? Can you point out who got a scholarship and then dropped out of college? Can you point out who graduated at the bottom half of his/her class but then "found himself" and went on to law school? Can you point out who got pregnant at 16 and had an abortion? Can you point out who was fat at 14? Can you point out who was not potty trained til 3 1/2 years of age?

HECK NO.

We are all doing the best we know how to do. We all have different circumstances. Some of us have mental illness. Did you know that 4 out of every 7 people have some "issue" that should be addressed by a mental health professional? And did you know that 1 out of 7 people have a serious mental illness that needs to be addressed by both counseling and meds? Do you know what this means? This means in your neighborhood and your workplace, there are men and women dealing with OCD, panic attacks, eating disorders, and substance abuse (and recovery). Those people make up the 4 out of 7. But one of those 7 people has schizoprenia, bipolar disorder or perhaps a personality disorder. These people are your neighbors, your coworkers, the people you run into at the grocery store.

We are all coping to deal with our lives the best we can. Some mother are in abusive situations but you don't know it! Some mothers are bipolar and trying very hard to find a balance so they can raise their kids while dealing w/ their own ups and downs and difficulties finding a middle ground w/ handling the stress of daily life.

So when we are strident and judgmental . . . we don't know what damage that may be doing to a vulnerable person. That is why I am so disturbed by judgmental attitudes among mothers.

Let's face it. Maybe that mom who stays home and sends her kids to daycare . . . needs that to help her maintain a balance in her life. Maybe she cannot function well and feels overwhelmed if the kids are there all day. Maybe she is dealing w/ something none of us will ever know about.

Because I work w/ mental health centers, I personally know of many situations where moms are dealing w/ mental illnesses that were not even diagnosed until after they had children. This could be me or you! Such things as hormonal changes can escalate a problem w/ depression. Just think how difficult it would be for a mom to go seek help when she is already feeling judged - admitting she feels depressed may be very difficult for her b/c she already feels like a failure.

If you are not one of those pushy women who feel you must trounce others around you to prove your kid is "the best," and if you are not out there making snooty remarks about how the women around you are not "good mothers," then none of this applies to you - so why be overly sensitive? However, if you are one of those who has put down others, or made remarks in your community about so-and-so and how crummy she is as a mom, then listen up: Maybe those people are struggling and the best thing you could do is either reach out and offer some support . . . or just keep your thoughts to yourself.
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