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I have no concerns about squalene. This is an optional vaccine. Non-squalene alternatives are available. There has never been aluminum in any flu vaccine approved for use in the US. If you think otherwise, post some proof. No wait, I'll just prove you wrong right here: FDA approves first seasonal influenza vaccine containing an adjuvant
First sentence in the press release: "The U.S. Food and Drug Administration today approved Fluad, the first seasonal influenza vaccine containing an adjuvant."
Thanks for the update. I didn't alter my numbers but I was mistaken. The numbers still show that death from flu is rare among children. Kids with the vaccine still get the flu. So do adults.
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Since we didn't keep track of pediatric flu deaths before 2004 (though that guru of the anti-vaxers, Babs Loe Fisher didn't know this in 2008), I can't say if flu vaccination has decreased the pediatric death rate. You don't know that it hasn't, either. That's part of your FUD.
What's with all of the name calling, "ant-vaxxer this anti-vaxxer that. It gets old. We're all people and I would think, all who are participating in this conversation in the parenting forum, parents who care about our children and their health. While our approaches may be different there is no need to be so divisive.
While California may require Flu Shots for school, Florida doesn't require flu shots for either kids, or teachers. This state, as the majority of US states, still has a Religious Exemption for vaccinations. School staff are not required to be vaccinated at all. There is no pendig legislation in Florida at all.
Protecting others? Husband's coworker's wife was a teacher. At 62 she got her flu shot, still got the flu, and was hospitalized with pneumonia. Maybe if she was a few years older she could have gotten the high dose version? Who did she catch it from? Will never know. Could have been her students, but also could have been another teacher, food service worker
, or even a custodian. Her husband had his shot, did not catch it, but was given Tamiflu "just in case"
He worked from home (office worker) while she was sick. So why didn't he demand that everyone in his office have their flu shots to protect this wife? Because Tom is not that kind of a person.
Last year Sue was diagnosed with breast cancer, had chemo. Her husband made arrangements to permanently work from home so as to not bring any disease home to his wife. Demand that all his office coworkers be up to date on vaccinations to protect his wife? No, he looked for another solution. His wife has voluntarily quarantined herself in her home. This is how they are protecting her, and not being SELFISH and demanding that everyone else must protect THEM.
BTW, want another example? Last May, I sat next to another passenger on a plane who was wearing a face mask, ear protectors, gloves, and a paper gown over his clothes. Very pleasant man who was not obnoxious or saying that if EVERYONE was vaccinated I would not have to do this. He just did what he had to do to protect himself.
Maybe the health care professionals on here could learn a lesson in KINDNESS towards others from these people.
That is about the least convincing post I have ever read.
California does not require flu shots for school. Big Whoop for these sanctimonious people you know (or maybe it's you who's being sanctimonious) who were able to arrange to work from home at the drop of a hat. It was probably a good decision for them and their families, which is who they made the decision for, not society. As far as the airline passenger, maybe he was immunocompromised and had to take that flight. Who knows? But to hold these people up as examples for the rest of us, not buying it. Society is a social contract. We all have to look out for our fellow travelers.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 09-12-2016 at 11:17 AM..
Thanks for the update. I didn't alter my numbers but I was mistaken. The numbers still show that death from flu is rare among children. Kids with the vaccine still get the flu. So do adults.
What's with all of the name calling, "ant-vaxxer this anti-vaxxer that. It gets old. We're all people and I would think, all who are participating in this conversation in the parenting forum, parents who care about our children and their health. While our approaches may be different there is no need to be so divisive.
Snort! If I wanted to get this thread closed, I could go through it and post a lot of divisivness coming from the "pro-disease" side. Barbara Loe Fisher is a public person and an anti-vaxer of the first order. I did not call anyone on here an anti-vaxer in that post. I on the other hand, was called a "rabid vaxer" early on, post 21, Sept. 7. Get your own house in order first.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 09-12-2016 at 10:37 AM..
Snort! If I wanted to get this thread closed, I could go through it and post a lot of divisivness coming from the "pro-disease" side. Barbara Loe Fisher is a public person and an anti-vaxer of the first order. I did not call anyone on here an anti-vaxer in that post. I on the other hand, was called a "rabid vaxer" early on, post 21, Sept. 7. Get your own house in order first.
"Po-disease"? What does that even mean? Do you think that roughly half of the US population is "pro-disease" for not getting their annual flu shot?
For the past three decades, she has led a national, grassroots movement and public information campaign to institute vaccine safety reforms and informed consent protections in the public health system.
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The mother of three grown children, her oldest son suffered a convulsion, collapse and brain inflammation within hours of his fourth DPT shot in 1980 when he was two and a half years old and was left with multiple learning disabilities and attention deficit disorder.
You do realize that before she was a vaccine safety and informed consent advocate she just a regular old mom who followed her doctor's advice and got a vaccine that caused permanent damage to her son. That is the lady who you are calling an "anti-vaxxer of the first order" Whatever the heck that is supposed to mean.
What I believe is not "disinformation". While there are legitimate reasons to think twice about injecting oneself on an annual basis with aluminum and thimerosal, that is not the primary or even secondary reason why our family does not get annual flu shots as I've already explained here in this thread which was supposedly to hear parent perspectives concerning the vaccine and the flu.
Great. You sure do seem to support everything they do and promote it heavily.
The approximately 30 to 80 children out of 74 million per year is what you are so worried about that you feel the need to push the vaccine on everyone, adults and children alike?
No, I'm discussing the realities of the vaccine. It does contain known neurotoxins. Not everyone's body can efficiently excrete those injected neurotoxins as efficiently as others. I'm sorry that you feel suppressing that information would be favorable.
Well there is scientific evidence that both aluminum and thimerosal are harmful to one's health. There has been little if any scientific research in regards to their safety when injected on an annual basis. There are some scientists calling for research in that regard. No matter what there credentials, you would probably call them quacks since you do that with any professional questioning vaccines, no matter their education, experience, reputation, etc. I didn't mention autism. I'm not the one living in fear about the flu and trying to scare people into getting a vaccine. I'm perfectly at ease with the possibility that we might get the flu. I hope you are as well because the flu gets the vaccinated as well.
When asked what your concerns were about flu vaccine you responded that one should not get annual doses of aluminum and mentioned thimerosal. Knowing now that flu vaccine does not contain aluminum and knowing all along that you can get it without thimerosal, what is your concern? Saying that you will just use elderberry does not work. Why not get the flu vaccine and save the elderberry for backup?
Nope, I do not support everything the drug companies do. I have recently participated in threads here at CD about the egregious price hike for EpiPens, for example. I do object to blanket condemnation of research done with industry money, particularly vaccine research. You cannot allege such research is biased just because of the source of funding. You have to show how a particular study was done wrong.
Pediatric deaths are just the tip of the iceberg. Katarina mentioned the adult deaths, but there are also the thousands of people - children and adults - who get sick, some critically so, but survive. Up to 200,000 people per year are hospitalized for flu and its complications in the US. Those admissions are the target for flu vaccine.
The doses of aluminum and thimerosal in vaccines are not toxic. Sorry, but that idea is a fiction perpetuated by the anti-vax gurus who are so desperate to maintain their book, video, speaking tour, and supplement industry.
The mercury in thimerosal is ethyl mercury. It does not behave the way methyl mercury - which is indeed toxic - does. It is similar to the difference between ethyl alcohol, which can be safely consumed in beer, wine, and liquor (in reasonable doses) and methyl alcohol (methanol), which can cause blindness or death when ingested in even low doses. It is wrong to impute the toxicity of methyl mercury to ethyl mercury.
Everyone, including babies getting breast fed, gets aluminum from the environment in doses much higher than any individual will ever get from all the vaccines he ever receives. No, the fact that it is injected makes no difference, and those who insist otherwise are demonstrating ignorance of basic human physiology and biochemistry. That is why the people who claim aluminum and thimerosal in vaccines are toxic are indeed quacks, no matter what their education is, and most of them have no educational background in human physiology or infectious diseases. They do not know what they are talking about. There has been extensive, legitimate research on aluminum and thimerosal, including studies (some with infants) on how they are eliminated. It is wrong to say there has not been.
You said again that "flu gets the vaccinated as well", implying that just as many who are vaccinated get the flu as those who are not vaccinated. In a well matched year the vaccinated are 60% less likely to get the flu, and if they do get it the illness tends to be milder. That's why 90% of pediatric flu deaths are unvaccinated children. An infectious disease expert who is an acquaintance tells me people who are vaccinated against flu seldom end up in his ICU. Flu does not get as many vaccinated people as it does those who are unvaccinated. It seems you just cannot grasp the concept of risk.
You are welcome not to vaccinate your family for flu. However, expect to be challenged if you come here and pass on the anti-vax claims that aluminum and thimerosal in vaccines are toxic and imply that people who get vaccinated are just as likely to get flu as those who are not. None of it is true.
Kids with the vaccine still get the flu. So do adults.
The risk of getting flu is lower if the child or adult is vaccinated.
Please read a basic epidemiology text so you can perhaps understand why the statement you keep repeating is wrong and misleading. If you continue to make it, it just shows you are being deliberately misleading.
The risk of getting flu is lower if the child or adult is vaccinated.
When was the last time you had the flu? It's been more then 30 years for me. I've definitely been exposed during that time. Close exposure. No vaccine. How is that possible? (that was a rhetorical question in case you are wondering) I'm not worried about the flu. You apparently are so do what works for you and your family and I'll do what works for me and my family. If getting the flu vaccine makes you feel better then get it but leave the rest of us to decide for ourselves and our own families.
Inject yourself with these health saving (?) ingredients year after year. I'll stick with healthy diet, exercise and supplements like Vit D and elderberry as needed. If we get the flu we will get the flu and deal with it. I suspect you will do the same when you get the flu, even with your vaccine. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...nt-table-2.pdf
The risk of getting flu is lower if the child or adult is vaccinated.
Please read a basic epidemiology text so you can perhaps understand why the statement you keep repeating is wrong and misleading. If you continue to make it, it just shows you are being deliberately misleading.
Please show statistics published in a peer-reviewed medical journal of how many cases of flu were in patients who received the vaccine and how many cases of flu were in those who did not receive the vaccine. Should be simple to find that important information and end all the debate once and for all, right?
You do realize that before she was a vaccine safety and informed consent advocate she just a regular old mom who followed her doctor's advice and got a vaccine that caused permanent damage to her son. That is the lady who you are calling an "anti-vaxxer of the first order" Whatever the heck that is supposed to mean.
No, I think most Americans do not understand the importance of flu vaccination. However, they are not here posting anti-vaccine "information" on City-Data.
I brought BLF up because it is her dishonestly named website the "National Vaccine Information Center" where the info comes from that flu and pneumonia deaths are all lumped together, including for children. I posted a statement to that effect from that site in 2012, eight years after pediatric flu deaths were made reportable. Many anti-vaccine people, and that's all you can call them if you don't like the term "pro-disease" read that site and get their information from there. She's no vaccine "safety" advocate, or an "informed consent" advocate. Despite what many anti-vaxers think, no one is being given vaccines without their or their parents' consent. Her stories about her son are not corroborated by medical evidence.
She's the high priestess of the AV movement in the US.
When was the last time you had the flu? It's been more then 30 years for me. I've definitely been exposed during that time. Close exposure. No vaccine. How is that possible? (that was a rhetorical question in case you are wondering) I'm not worried about the flu. You apparently are so do what works for you and your family and I'll do what works for me and my family. If getting the flu vaccine makes you feel better then get it but leave the rest of us to decide for ourselves and our own families.
Inject yourself with these health saving (?) ingredients year after year. I'll stick with healthy diet, exercise and supplements like Vit D and elderberry as needed. If we get the flu we will get the flu and deal with it. I suspect you will do the same when you get the flu, even with your vaccine. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...nt-table-2.pdf
I'm not suzy, but I'll tell you. I had the flu in 2014. You should know that anecdotes are not evidence, and the plural of anecdotes is not evidence.
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