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Old 02-01-2017, 02:18 PM
 
Location: New Yawk
8,530 posts, read 4,611,632 times
Reputation: 13774

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Dysgenic: that is horrible and I'm sorry for you and your daughter . I will say this, one day she will be an adult and will hopefully she will see who is really responsible for her father not being in her life as much as he should be.

For myself, I grew up with my father having sole custody and was told that my mother didn't want custody. I didn't know it then, but the nights before her visitations, he would slash her tires so she wouldn't be able to pick us up. She stopped paying child support so she could finally get in front of a judge to tell what had been happening. He responded by moving almost every year, only using PO Boxes so we couldn't be tracked down, never had a telephone or a bank account, enrolled us in Waldorf schools, and even stopped taking us to medical and dental visits so there would be even less of a paper trail. It was the 80s, so it was much easier to stay under the radar. In short, aside from being an all around horrible person who only saw us as possessions, he did everything on his power to thwart contact with her.

And he was successful. I never saw or heard from her for over 10 years, until I was 18 years old. It took me a long time to want to have a relationship with her, but eventually my brothers and I came to realize what he did, and at the core of the matter HE is the reason we didn't have a mother, not her. And that's how it played out: it took a long time and many years of hurt for her, but we all grew up and saw the situation for what it truly was. I haven't spoken to my father in 20 years because of what he unapologetically did. Maybe some day your daughter will come to the same realization about her mother.

Last edited by Ginge McFantaPants; 02-01-2017 at 02:37 PM..
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Old 02-01-2017, 02:24 PM
 
1,836 posts, read 1,042,008 times
Reputation: 1933
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBeam33 View Post
Ok dysgenic, we get it, you hate your ex wife and she is a horrible person. You do realize, though, that the scenario you have outlined above is not the norm anywhere, for anyone, right? You are in a unique situation. The vast majority of separated/divorced parents do not have someone with unlimited income to support them while they don't work, take vacations, buy fancy clothes, etc. Ok, that is not the norm. Yes, it should make you angry, but do you really need to take it out on all the decent custodial parents here who are doing what they're supposed to do, pay their bills, take care of their kids, and just expect the non-custodial parent to provide a minimum of financial contribution without it having to be an issue every goddammed month?

Your beef is not with "the system." Your beef is with "the haves," the 1%, the rich, of which your ex wife is a member, and it's a tale as old as time. I don't know what you would expect any of us here to do about that.





And then we've got ^^^^ this guy who's going to call me a lazy, entitled custodial parent while I'm working three jobs and paying 98% of everything, and diminish my relationship with my child to "a monthly check." You, sir, are a name I cannot call you on C-D and you can take your opinion and shove it.
I'm not taking it out on the custodial parents. I'm taking it out on those in charge of creating and enforcing this bogus system. Let's turn this issue on its head. Let's say we lived in a parallel universe where Judges made custodial parents that weren't receiving their child support checks jump through the same hoops that non custodial parents have to jump through when custodial parents withhold parenting time.
Say a custodial parent came on here and complained, only to have noncustodial parents jump on the thread saying that they pay their child support, and most non custodial parents pay their child support, so really the custodial parent has no complaint. Can you imagine such a scenario?
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Old 02-01-2017, 02:36 PM
 
1,836 posts, read 1,042,008 times
Reputation: 1933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms.Mathlete View Post
Dysgenic: that is horrible and I'm sorry for you and your daughter . I will say this, one day she will be an adult and will hopefully she will see who is really responsible for her father not being in her life as much as he should be.

For myself, I grew up with my father having sole custody and was told that my mother didn't want custody. I didn't know it then, but the nights before her visitations, he would slash her tires so she wouldn't be able to pick us up. She stopped paying child support so she could finally get in front of a judge to tell what had been happening. He responded by moving almost every year, only using PO Boxes so we couldn't be tracked down, never had a telephone or a bank account, enrolled us in Waldorf schools, and even stopped taking us to medical and dental visits so there would be even less of a paper trails. It was the 80s, so it was much easier to stay under the radar. In short, aside from being an all around horrible person who only saw as as possessions, he did everything on his power to thwart contact with her.

And he was successful. I never saw or heard from her for over 10 years, until I was 18 years old. It took me a long time to want to have a relationship with her, but eventually my brothers and I came to realize what he did, and at the core of the matter HE is the reason we didn't have a mother, not her. And that's how it played out: it took a long time and many years of hurt for her, but we all grew up and saw the situation for what it truly was. I haven't spoken to my father in 20 years because of what he unapologetically did. Maybe some day your daughter will come to the same realization about her mother.
That is truly horrible what your Dad did to you and your brothers. I am truly sorry for what you had to go through. That is awful, just awful. Thank you for sharing this.

May I ask you a personal question? Do you think that you might have some anger issues with men as a result of what you went through? That deep down inside you might be somehow trying to punish your Dad by hating other men? Listen, if I'm honest I've experienced this with woman. I feel like conversations like this can be healing, at least for me...to know that there are good women out there, that would never do what my ex and her mother are doing.

I think maybe you should think about forgiving your Dad. You could do this for yourself, putting down all of the resentment and casting it right into the sea, never to be heard from again. Just a suggestion.

I don't want my daughter to end up not speaking to her Mother for 20 years, no matter what she has done. That would just end up making this whole thing worse somehow.
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Old 02-01-2017, 02:37 PM
 
15,149 posts, read 16,518,769 times
Reputation: 14828
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
Again, if the court cares about financial support of the children, why don't they require custodial parents to financially support their children?
Child lives with the custodial parent, right? That means s/he is supporting the children - obviously the custodial parent pays for food, clothing and housing. This might be from the child support, but it's still supporting the children. Presumably, that custodial parent also makes sure the child is getting to school, getting homework done, getting to and from any extra activities they are in, etc., etc., etc.
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Old 02-01-2017, 02:43 PM
 
6,435 posts, read 3,483,979 times
Reputation: 9567
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
No, a custodial parent is not obligated by default when they assume custody. If this were the case custodial parents with no job or income would have their drivers licenses suspended and then thrown in jail. You don't need itemization or a separate account to prove that a custodial parent with an income of zero isn't financially supporting their child. As to the bolded, if this is true isn't this all the more reason to require that custodial parents financially support their children?

I'll now ask you for the 4th time-

Do you think it's a good thing that custodial parents are not obligated to financially support their children- not even one dollar or one penny? Do you think this is good for children? Do you think it's good parenting to refuse to financially support your child- not even one dollar or one penny? Do you think it's good that the courts support some of those that refuse to financially support their children?
I'll answer. First, I think the number of cases where the custodial parent is contributing nothing is very small. But let's say we have a case.

Your assumption that having no income equates to contributing no support is incorrect. Perhaps the custodial parent is using saved assets for a period of time? Perhaps they are borrowing or being given assets from another person?

But let's assume the case where they are not using saved or loaned or gifted assets. That would mean the kids just aren't getting supported adequately and that would be reflected in their home environment and standard of living. Living in substandard housing, not getting enough to eat, wearing rags for clothes, not getting healthcare, etc. The non-custodial parent would have to have a very significant income if their child support alone (typically 20-25% gross) is sustaining the household. If this is the case, the non-custodial parent might want to go to court to gain custody due to the neglect. I'd be more in favor of this approach than in analyzing the custodial parent's expenditures.

Are you upset that happily married parents aren't under court oversight and enforcement to financially support their children? After all, if both non-custodial and custodial parents must direct 25% of their respective incomes to supporting the children then shouldn't all families, even intact ones, be legally forced to expend 50% of household income on the children?
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Old 02-01-2017, 02:45 PM
 
1,836 posts, read 1,042,008 times
Reputation: 1933
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Child lives with the custodial parent, right? That means s/he is supporting the children - obviously the custodial parent pays for food, clothing and housing. This might be from the child support, but it's still supporting the children. Presumably, that custodial parent also makes sure the child is getting to school, getting homework done, getting to and from any extra activities they are in, etc., etc., etc.
If the custodial parent doesn't work and they have zero income, obviously they aren't financially supporting the child. Surely we can agree on that as a starting point?
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Old 02-01-2017, 02:51 PM
 
Location: New Yawk
8,530 posts, read 4,611,632 times
Reputation: 13774
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
That is truly horrible what your Dad did to you and your brothers. I am truly sorry for what you had to go through. That is awful, just awful. Thank you for sharing this.

May I ask you a personal question? Do you think that you might have some anger issues with men as a result of what you went through? That deep down inside you might be somehow trying to punish your Dad by hating other men? Listen, if I'm honest I've experienced this with woman. I feel like conversations like this can be healing, at least for me...to know that there are good women out there, that would never do what my ex and her mother are doing.

I think maybe you should think about forgiving your Dad. You could do this for yourself, putting down all of the resentment and casting it right into the sea, never to be heard from again. Just a suggestion.

I don't want my daughter to end up not speaking to her Mother for 20 years, no matter what she has done. That would just end up making this whole thing worse somehow.
To the bolded, no. I've always been very good at compartmentalizing people and their actions, and never got into the whole "bad boy" dysfunctional relationship pattern. I only ever dated nice guys and had healthy relationships with them, and married a great guy who is the antithesis of my father.

To the red: there are other things that happened that I'd rather not talk about, which contribute to my choosing to cut contact with him. It was bad. So much so that the healthiest choice for me is to not have contact.
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Old 02-01-2017, 02:54 PM
 
15,149 posts, read 16,518,769 times
Reputation: 14828
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
If the custodial parent doesn't work and they have zero income, obviously they aren't financially supporting the child. Surely we can agree on that as a starting point?
No, because you don't know whether or not the custodial parent has savings or is being supported by his or her parent so the grandparents are helping financially.

I really doubt that there are many cases where the custodial parent has zero income and is not supporting the child in some way.
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Old 02-01-2017, 03:00 PM
 
1,836 posts, read 1,042,008 times
Reputation: 1933
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
I'll answer. First, I think the number of cases where the custodial parent is contributing nothing is very small. But let's say we have a case.

Your assumption that having no income equates to contributing no support is incorrect. Perhaps the custodial parent is using saved assets for a period of time? Perhaps they are borrowing or being given assets from another person?

But let's assume the case where they are not using saved or loaned or gifted assets. That would mean the kids just aren't getting supported adequately and that would be reflected in their home environment and standard of living. Living in substandard housing, not getting enough to eat, wearing rags for clothes, not getting healthcare, etc. The non-custodial parent would have to have a very significant income if their child support alone (typically 20-25% gross) is sustaining the household. If this is the case, the non-custodial parent might want to go to court to gain custody due to the neglect. I'd be more in favor of this approach than in analyzing the custodial parent's expenditures.

Are you upset that happily married parents aren't under court oversight and enforcement to financially support their children? After all, if both non-custodial and custodial parents must direct 25% of their respective incomes to supporting the children then shouldn't all families, even intact ones, be legally forced to expend 50% of household income on the children?
Nope. If the noncustodial parent doesn't have a job, they will be ordered to pay the minimum and get a job at their peak earning capacity immediately so their child support can be jacked up under the guise of the child needing more money. Why doesn't the same principle apply to custodial parents? Because the courts don't actually care about the child, they just care about collecting $$ for title IV money.

As to second part of your post; you are suggesting a near impossible solution that is doomed to fail for over 90% of those who try.
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Old 02-01-2017, 03:02 PM
 
1,836 posts, read 1,042,008 times
Reputation: 1933
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
No, because you don't know whether or not the custodial parent has savings or is being supported by his or her parent so the grandparents are helping financially.

I really doubt that there are many cases where the custodial parent has zero income and is not supporting the child in some way.
...accept that the court doesn't take this position for non custodial parents. Non custodial parents are forced to get a job at their peak earning capacity or go to jail.
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