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Old 01-27-2017, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
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If you are court ordered to pay child support and have no visitation then yes you should have to pay because it is a deliberate order by the court(I'm assuming there are circumstances that warrant such an arrangement of course). If you are court ordered to pay support and also court ordered to get partial custody then one should be dependent on the other. No money no custody, no custody no money. I understand this is not current law, so reminding me of this would not be a rebuttal to my opinion. Currently the courts have no real way to enforce custody orders so tying the two together would be a way of enforcing both ends of the court order. I am coming at this with a point of view that it is in the best interests of the child to have access to both parents, and with the understanding that the courts do not see it that way. Ideally 50/50 custody split would be the norm so support would often not be necessary but even where having a primary custodian is appropriate, that parent should not be able to deny the non custodial parent the custody that they are granted by the court.
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Old 01-27-2017, 09:30 AM
 
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Very LONG and UGLY story short.....Ex is a narcisstic lawyer, just so you know where I am coming from.


Court ordered visitation, but then she filed criminal charges as well as a restraining order. All legal tactics that a good lawyer will use immediately to make the husband look really bad. There wasn't a motion that came up that she didn't remind the judge, "You know he has criminal charges filed against him, and has a restraining order". No mention that SHE is the one who filed the charges!


So, at first I am thinking, need to stay in the area. Close by to make it easier. The I am thinking need to rent a house; place for children to visit. Then I am thinking as this drags on, need a place for myself, and then when the children thing gets settled, I will find a bigger place. Then I realize I need to worry about myself, and not the children--she is going to fight this just for the sake of "battling".


After a couple of years, I moved out of the area. Legal stuff was thrown out, and visitation agreed. But every time we arranged a visit, there was always an issue. Kids need to be in Texas that weekend; kids have overnight plans that weekend; I can't meet you at agreed place; always some excuse.


After a year of this I basically said "F" it. Three years in and I have not seen the kids. I have to worry about myself. Told the kids I would see them when they were 18, and I moved away. There are only so many times you can put your hand on a hot stove before you realize it hurts, and it is not going to get any cooler. The games take a toll, on you. The court says you can, but not that you must see your children. If she is being an impediment you can go back to court for every visit....$10,000 a pop to file the motion, the cross motion, the court appearance, and then the final order.


As soon as the kids turned 18, I reengaged with them. They understood that their mother was being a B, and knew that I tried hard to do the right things. One has engaged very well, the other thinks the mother walks on water. As for me, I enjoy the chances I have, and don't subscribe to the " I would do anything to see my children." You pizz away a hundred grand in legal fees and come back and tell me you "would do anything". There comes a point where you need to take care of yourself; the stove is not going to cool off.


Oh...my child support? Large. VERY large. Whatever you are dreaming "large" might be, double it. Never missed a payment. The reality is that paying support has nothing to do with visitation. Had I had a clean route to visitation with no roadblocks, I would have paid a LOT more....clothes, entertainment, school supplies, nice extras. As it was, I paid exactly what I was ordered to pay. Not a penny less, nor a penny more. Judge cited my performance as being exemplary.


Who loses? The parent who is so angry they block visitation. The children. And you.
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Old 01-27-2017, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy12345678 View Post
What if the other parent denies access to the child? It's not always the father's fault that he's not allowed to see his kid.

BTW I don't have kids, but I've seen this situation before and wanted to hear people's thoughts on it.
I think its a parents responsibility to support their children regardless of being able to see them, but unless there is a specific court order/reason (and not in regards to money) to deny access to a parent the courts need to step it way up in enforcing custody and visitation agreements. As in a bench warrant/arrest when a parent refuses/violates visitation agreements.

Last edited by 2mares; 01-27-2017 at 10:43 AM..
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Old 01-27-2017, 09:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
Yes, there is law that says the noncustodial parent must have visits, if he wants them. There is no law forcing him to.
Not exactly. Visitation rights are what is specified in the decree, period. Your state will have standard visitation schedules (depending on if you live in same or remote geographical areas) in their domestic law statutes that your decree can reference and include. Most people do this. However, the couple can agree to something else based on their own needs. And a judge can order something else based on the best interests of the child, which take precedence over all else. If dad is a druggie or sex offender or violent then he may be limited to supervised visitation or denied visitation altogether. Or dad may have abandoned mom and child and had no interest so visitation was excluded in the decree. If circumstances change and he wants to change what is in the decree then he would have to go to court and ask a judge to amend it.

*State laws vary but are similar in principle.
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Old 01-27-2017, 09:58 AM
 
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You made 'em, you support 'em.
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Old 01-27-2017, 10:11 AM
 
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Usually there's a reason when a parent is denied access to seeing their child. Drugs, violence, child molester, etc. If it's just a bitter mom, use the court system, it's there. Just don't sit back and accept that a bitter mom is keeping you from your child.


Child support, and visitation are viewed as two separate entities. Neither one can be used to deny the other. If a man doesn't pay CS, you cannot legally withhold visitation. Likewise if you are denied visitation, you cannot legally withhold CS.




With that said, it's your kid..support them.

Last edited by BostonMike7; 01-27-2017 at 10:35 AM..
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Old 01-27-2017, 02:25 PM
 
887 posts, read 567,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nov3 View Post
Let me kindly enlighten you. Court ordered child support goes directly to the primary guardian.end of that tutorial.

I raised two sons. Child support was not ordered or demanded. I held two jobs. I didn't want their fathers financial support. The child support system is so lopsided .

Please go do research, ( I have !).And the courts refuse to direct that the funds to directly to the kids . If mom.wants to rent an apartment, the landlord is not going to say, and the kids will pay this much.
Sorry that you haven't been around the single custodial parent who blows the child support on her pleasures... A new car...Or her weekly manicure, spa treatment. If you think it doesn't happen ..You are misguided. my former dil does blow the 1k she gets on herself. Her current husband owns outright the home and has his own business. So spare me how it's indirectly used to house,feed and clothe him. He is her cash cow.

Do those who are married, tell their toddlers, well pay up on the electric bill and car insurance. Nope! And why is that? Because the electric still needs paid and the adults are accountable for those leisures, not the kids.
But the kids are incurring expenses that are being picked up out of the family budget, correct? Would you prefer that her current husband says no I'm not paying for your kids by another man, even though I married their mother? I guess I'm having a hard time with what exactly your grievance is. Do you believe that your son should not have to pay any support because the tab is now being picked up by the new husband? Do you think she should have to provide an accounting of what exactly she does with the money he gives her?
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Old 01-27-2017, 02:52 PM
 
7,411 posts, read 6,993,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lbjen View Post
Do you think she should have to provide an accounting of what exactly she does with the money he gives her?

I've heard many people make that case and I think it's silly.


Family expenses are part of the budget. It's impossible to say how much of the mortgage is attributed to the child, or how much electric/water/natural gas is their portion. Or how much food/clothing they get spent on.


My wife's ex pays $1250/month in CS, and day care is $1300...so none of the money is spent on the household. That comes from my wife and I's income....which we can also use to spend ourselves as well. I bought a new car. No, child support didn't pay for that. I want to get my wife a new car next year. Child support isn't paying for that either.




Kiddo has a room, food, new clothes, tons of toys, a 529plan and a great place to grow up. Stop complaining about Child Support, make your own budget, learn to live within your means and focus on being a good dad. Once you let the money go, and can focus on just being a dad, you can finally be happy.






And for the record, I also pay CS to my ex, and her new husband who have their own household, and she recently bought a new car as well. Doesn't bother me at all.
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
3,852 posts, read 1,510,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonMike7 View Post
I've heard many people make that case and I think it's silly.


Family expenses are part of the budget. It's impossible to say how much of the mortgage is attributed to the child, or how much electric/water/natural gas is their portion. Or how much food/clothing they get spent on.


My wife's ex pays $1250/month in CS, and day care is $1300...so none of the money is spent on the household. That comes from my wife and I's income....which we can also use to spend ourselves as well. I bought a new car. No, child support didn't pay for that. I want to get my wife a new car next year. Child support isn't paying for that either.




Kiddo has a room, food, new clothes, tons of toys, a 529plan and a great place to grow up. Stop complaining about Child Support, make your own budget, learn to live within your means and focus on being a good dad. Once you let the money go, and can focus on just being a dad, you can finally be happy.






And for the record, I also pay CS to my ex, and her new husband who have their own household, and she recently bought a new car as well. Doesn't bother me at all.
So you're raising some other guy's kids and some other guy is raising your kids. He pays your wife and you pay your ex. Musical daddies. Twisted system.
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Old 01-27-2017, 04:05 PM
 
4,975 posts, read 2,801,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonMike7 View Post
I've heard many people make that case and I think it's silly.


Family expenses are part of the budget. It's impossible to say how much of the mortgage is attributed to the child, or how much electric/water/natural gas is their portion. Or how much food/clothing they get spent on.
It could be as simple as, for a mother and two kids, kids are 2/3rds of rent and utilities. For a mother and three kids, kids are 3/4ths of rent and utilities. Just one way to do it. That said, I'm not for a dollar to dime accounting.
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