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Old 02-02-2017, 07:56 AM
 
Location: South Florida
196 posts, read 91,531 times
Reputation: 294

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Some parents with adult children, despite years and years of experience, hold this delusional notion of kids being able to fully support themselves at an arbitrary magic age - be it 18, 21, 23, or 27. The reality is, even though a parent isn't legally obligated to support their children past the age of 18, it can take many years or even a decade before they are completely able to live without their parent's largesse. Growing up is a slow, slow process but many parents seem to forget this and want to throw their kids out as soon as legal responsibility ends. Why bother having kids?

My children are fully grown and supporting their own families now, with no financial help from any third party. When they reached the age of majority, I was in no rush to kick them out, especially as they respected me and were steadily moving to independence. Throwing your kids out and forcing them to live on ramen and rent a room in a bad neighborhood is absolutely despicable in the name of "teaching them independence". That is no way to treat your own children, the most precious element in your lives.

 
Old 02-02-2017, 08:11 AM
 
5,121 posts, read 2,264,497 times
Reputation: 4993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
What is so hard for YOU (and the OP) to understand? He didn't move home against his mother's wishes, then sit on his ass and refuse to contribute. She INVITED him home and said he could stay as long as he wanted. Then all of a sudden, she decides she likes her alone time, and gives him a 2 month deadline. SHE is the one who changed the rules of the game, not him.
No trouble at all understanding what is going on, and I haven't posted anything that contradicts what you have written above. But none of that is the issue. The issue is that circumstances have changed. It doesn't matter who changed them, or why they changed. While Mom was initially OK with son being there, she isn't OK with it now.

Quote:
I blame this mom for her own problems. There should have been a conversation at the beginning about her expectations. She should have spelled out that she expected him to work full time, pay for utilities, or whatever, and stay no longer than 6 months. It doesn't sound like she did any of that.

He is working (multiple jobs?) and apparently contributing a little. She told him he could stay, then wonders why he doesn't understand that she wants him to leave.

ETA I am not saying that any 23 year old should be able to live with his parents forever without contributing. I think in this instance, the mom was wrong, and handled it poorly.
Many in this thread appear to believe that there was some sort of valid (and inviolable) contract between Mom and son that would allow him to live there in perpetuity. That clearly isn't the case, and to believe otherwise is just silly.
 
Old 02-02-2017, 08:24 AM
 
Location: here
24,267 posts, read 28,206,342 times
Reputation: 30331
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
No trouble at all understanding what is going on, and I haven't posted anything that contradicts what you have written above. But none of that is the issue. The issue is that circumstances have changed. It doesn't matter who changed them, or why they changed. While Mom was initially OK with son being there, she isn't OK with it now.



Many in this thread appear to believe that there was some sort of valid (and inviolable) contract between Mom and son that would allow him to live there in perpetuity. That clearly isn't the case, and to believe otherwise is just silly.
The circumstances didn't change. The mom changed her mind.

Only the mom's word, which means nothing now, because she went back on it. She's probably done real damage to her relationship with her son, and that's unfortunate.
 
Old 02-02-2017, 08:32 AM
 
5,121 posts, read 2,264,497 times
Reputation: 4993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
The circumstances didn't change. The mom changed her mind.
Original circumstances - Mom was happy to have son live with her. New circumstances - Mom isn't happy with son living with her. I know that is difficult for you to wrap your head around, but those circumstances have changed.

Quote:
Only the mom's word, which means nothing now, because she went back on it. She's probably done real damage to her relationship with her son, and that's unfortunate.
You really can't understand that a loving Mother would say "stay as long as you want" without expecting that it would create a "contract," that may persist into perpetuity? Only an unreasonable person would believe that.

(Contract is in quotes because there was no contract.)
 
Old 02-02-2017, 08:40 AM
 
Location: here
24,267 posts, read 28,206,342 times
Reputation: 30331
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
Original circumstances - Mom was happy to have son live with her. New circumstances - Mom isn't happy with son living with her. I know that is difficult for you to wrap your head around, but those circumstances have changed.



You really can't understand that a loving Mother would say "stay as long as you want" without expecting that it would create a "contract," that may persist into perpetuity? Only an unreasonable person would believe that.

(Contract is in quotes because there was no contract.)
No, she changed her mind. That is not a change in circumstance. If she had lost her job, or been forced to move to a smaller apartment, or become disabled, that would be a change of circumstance. She's allowed to change her mind, but she handled this badly, and went back on her word. It's not a matter of what she "can" do, it's a matter of what she "should" do. She shouldn't have left it open-ended from the beginning. When she changed her mind, she should have sat him down, and told him that, and discussed a reasonable time frame for him to move out. She didn't. She gave him a short deadline. I was raised to treat family better than that. I was raised to treat everyone better than that.

circumstance

noun
1.
a condition, detail, part, or attribute, with respect to time, place, manner,agent, etc., that accompanies, determines, or modifies a fact or event; a modifying or influencing factor:
Do not judge his behavior without considering every circumstance.
2.
Usually, circumstances. the existing conditions or state of affairs surrounding and affecting an agent:
Circumstances permitting, we sail on Monday.
3.
an unessential or secondary accompaniment of any fact or event; minor detail:
The author dwells on circumstances rather than essentials.
4.
circumstances, the condition or state of a person with respect to income and material welfare:
a family in reduced circumstances.
5.
an incident or occurrence:
His arrival was a fortunate circumstance.
6.
detailed or circuitous narration; specification of particulars:
The speaker expatiated with great circumstance upon his theme.
 
Old 02-02-2017, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Northern NJ
7,290 posts, read 7,190,083 times
Reputation: 10380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
The circumstances didn't change. The mom changed her mind.

Only the mom's word, which means nothing now, because she went back on it. She's probably done real damage to her relationship with her son, and that's unfortunate.
A freeloading adult child does not have any rights to expect the freeloading to exist in perpetuity. A parent who is doing the wrong thing by harboring adult children from life is entitled to realize the mistake and change her mind. She saw what she had created and decided to make a course correction. Good on her. Better late than never.

We see a lot of hostile and guilty defensiveness in this thread. Could that be from parents who are doing the wrong thing, know it, but are too emotionally frail to do the right thing? Could it be that some parents are willing to silently damage their kids so that they can be spared the loneliness? Could it be that being needed is addictive, and when it is taken away by normal maturation and detachment, that some parents want to reverse reality and keep the past from becoming the future? Interesting questions!
 
Old 02-02-2017, 09:31 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
4,294 posts, read 2,805,676 times
Reputation: 4257
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1to1onto View Post
So my son, who just turned 23, graduated from college a few months ago. I told him he was welcome to stay with me as long as he wanted. Big mistake.

My husband and I divorced many many years ago, and I raised my son in an apartment. I still live in this apartment, and while I missed my son when he was away at college, I loved having my own space. Things are now back to the way they way were before they went to college, except that he's a 23-year-old man instead of a teenage boy.

He's managed to get some very low-paying jobs with his degree, but doesn't earn enough to contribute a lot. He's an adult now and I have no obligation to let him live with me. So the other day, I told him that he had 2 months to find another place. And he hit the ceiling.

He told me I was selfish and didn't love him, and also called me a traitor and other horrific things. He said all this instead of thanking me for letting him stay under my roof for 8 months. How does he not understand me wanting my own space after 23 years? I took having my own space for granted when he was at college, which is why I said he could return for as long as he wanted, but now I realize what a luxury I had and that I really want it back.

Surely he must understand my need for peace and independence.
How about when you are old ,, ill and no one there for you and your son is not even talking to you? have think about that at all? When you healthy young it is easy to kick your kids out of the house like dogs and cats but when that time comes you may suffer with regrets.
 
Old 02-02-2017, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Texas
2,320 posts, read 6,080,894 times
Reputation: 1571
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1to1onto View Post
How is that fair? It's my house, not his. I'm the one paying the bills. It's my choice as to who gets to live there or not, just like you get to choose who lives or doesn't live in your house. It was nice enough of me to let him stay with me for a few months. He's 23, he should be supporting himself in his own place. How many 23-year-olds live with Mommy? I was stupid for even thinking of letting him live with me.

You would be surprised... the millenials are living with mommy and daddy forever now.
 
Old 02-02-2017, 10:19 AM
 
825 posts, read 413,554 times
Reputation: 3084
I come from an old-fashioned European family that is very clannish and opposite of the American concept of family. People forget that it was very common for families to come to America and stick together. You still see that with many Asian families. I know of several who come here, pool all their resources (live together in one big house, buy a nail salon/dry cleaner/convenience store) and all work together so that they can eventually branch out, get educations and be successful on their own. Grown children live at home and help with grandparents, grandparents help with looking after younger children, etc. It's the family way and in no circumstance would any of them think it's wrong or weird or co-dependent. Now the American concept of family is one that is very independent and detached. Somehow when your kid is 18 you are supposed to kick them out and expect them to make it totally on their own. If that is your concept of family fine, but don't be puzzled when your kids are very detached from you later in life and have nothing to do with you. And don't condemn others who have a different concept of family, one where respectful and warm relationships exist between parents and grown children who all choose to live under one roof and pool resources.
 
Old 02-02-2017, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
9,799 posts, read 9,011,319 times
Reputation: 12592
sorry, didn't read all of the posts, but the question is - is he contributing anything to you OP? He should not be living in the apartment rent free. In addition, while my doors will always be open to my kids, I expect them to be ambitious and display a modicum of independence. I moved out at almost 19 making $24,000 (in NYC!), and purchased my first condo at 21, so I admit that I can't relate. I've always been extremely independent. I've held a job since I was 8 years old delivering papers. In my case, we own a house that has more than adequate space so our kids still living with us wouldn't make an iota of difference. They'd be living in their own rooms and it'd be business as usual. But an apartment? That's a different story.

I get the impression that the OP's son isn't contributing anything. There's also little incentive for him to try and get higher paying jobs because he has all of his needs provided for already. OP is walking a fine line and maybe the initial ultimatum caught the son off guard, but there needs to be some serious communication going on. OP, you allow him to stay on a reasonable time table and during that time he will be expected to pay something (i.e helping with utilities, food, rent, whatever). In that time period, you will help him try to find an apartment of his own.

Also, ever heard of roommates? Whatever happened to living with a few buddies to defray costs? I'd rather live with roomies than move back in with Mom..against, that's just me.
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