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Old 03-24-2017, 11:01 AM
 
3,918 posts, read 2,234,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnivalGal View Post
I think the best thing parents, and fathers in particular, can do is model good behavior. Do not talk about women's bodies, who's hot, who's not. Do not give your son an "atta boy" if he has a date. Don't tell your sons or friends that they do something, "Like a girl." Do not refer to grown women as girls (or worse) when you don't refer to grown men as boys. If you (men) see a buddy catcall or make a sexist/offensive comment or joke, speak up. Don't pass around naked pictures of women to your friends. It's basically virtual catcalling. Don't send unsolicited pictures of your genitals to women. Stop mansplaining - yes, it's a thing. I actually had someone recently mansplain what pregnancy is like to me (and I have birthed 2 children). And no, he was not a doctor or even remotely in the medical field.

You can't treat women one way and expect everyone else to treat your daughter differently. I also don't think men really appreciate what it's like to be a women. Unless you are afraid every time you walk to your car alone (especially at night), you don't know. Unless you regularly experience men at bars or parties grabbing your junk, you don't know.
And please, don't call parts of your bodies your "junk." I think that devalues you. Let's everybody be aware of the messages we send about ourselves.
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Old 03-24-2017, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
3,298 posts, read 2,748,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaydrive00 View Post
So you believe your sons could be drug addicted, drunk rapists if not for the people they hangs out with?
What the hell are you talking about?
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Old 03-24-2017, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
3,298 posts, read 2,748,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew View Post
Wake up and smell the coffee. One's choices do not determine one's reality entirely. And we live in a country and world that still views women and girls as disposable playthings. Or worse.

You can make choices that minimize your exposure to bad things.
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Old 03-24-2017, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
3,298 posts, read 2,748,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydney123 View Post
Your post ( to me) is victim shaming..... basically saying it's the victims fault because she may have had been drinking or using drugs. She may not have been wise to do that, but it's no excuse for her being sexually assaulted.
You seem to be reading things into my post that aren't there. I don't have daughters so I used my two college student sons as an example. So far they haven't been robbed on campus, but some day they might be. It would not be their fault if the are, but they do have choices of where to go, when to go there, and who to go with. That's simply stating facts, and it's not "victim shaming".
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Old 03-24-2017, 11:32 AM
 
10,922 posts, read 8,289,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
You can make choices that minimize your exposure to bad things.
So this got me thinking. I looked up the definition of minimize

"reduce (something, especially something unwanted or unpleasant) to the smallest possible amount or degree."

I suppose ones actions can reduce an outcome to the smallest possible amount. I think, as parents, that is what we seek to teach. My kids (boy and girl) and I have talked about their rights as humans, that authority figures are not always right... A host of topics. And they are strong and resilient teens for it. That does not change the fact that the reduction to the smallest possible degree is still vastly inadequate to protect girls and women from the pervasive attitude that their bodies are not theirs to control and their choices count for nothing with some people.
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Old 03-24-2017, 11:59 AM
 
4,339 posts, read 4,816,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaydrive00 View Post

Please show where I said any of those things.
Read your own words. You chastised someone who said that explaining the risks of alcohol was for prevention and not shaming. You said they were "blaming the victims" by doing that.

There is a (radical) feminist narrative going around that discourages talking about preventative behavior for self-defense, and focuses on women's rights to do whatever they want without having to worry about attackers. This narrative yammers on and on about "blaming victims".

It's ridiculous. Rape is rightfully prosecuted no matter what precautions the victim did or did not employ. And I wouldn't mind if rapists were put in prison for life, with no parole.

The problem is that predators don't give a damn about anyone's rights. Predators are not civilized people in the first place. We should not be giving women a false sense of safety. It has always been a dangerous world. We should be giving women tactics of self-defense, which at the very least begins with not putting oneself in a vulnerable position. The feminist narrative has probably put more women in danger by encouraging them to be naive.

No one is suggesting that rape and abuse will go away. Someone could always snatch you off the street and throw you in a van, or put something in your drink. But let's be more REAL about the dangers of getting drunk and passing out. We don't have to make rape/abuse as easy as taking candy from a baby.
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Old 03-24-2017, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Saint Louis
8,324 posts, read 5,060,012 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shooting Stars View Post
Rape is rightfully prosecuted no matter what precautions the victim did or did not employ.
Unfortunately that is not true. If a man is on trial for rape, his victim will be asked what she was wearing when the attack happened, how much she had to drink, if she was on any drugs/medication, how many sexual partners she has been with.... Why do you think these questions are asked?

Quote:
There is a (radical) feminist narrative going around that discourages talking about preventative behavior for self-defense, and focuses on women's rights to do whatever they want without having to worry about attackers. This narrative yammers on and on about "blaming victims".
And often times, there is nothing that a woman can do to prevent sexual assault. The only one who can prevent sexual assault is the assailant. If you want to claim I'm a radical feminist for believing that the only person who can prevent a rape is the rapist, then go for it.


Quote:
But let's be more REAL about the dangers of getting drunk and passing out. We don't have to make rape/abuse as easy as taking candy from a baby.
I never suggested that women should get passed out drunk. My statement was to those saying they would tell their daughter don't drink/don't do drugs. Most adults are going to have at least a drink every now and then. Its not practical to just say never drink and you'll be safer. Its better to teach how to be responsible with alcohol, and how to be aware of your surroundings. That's not going to allow my daughter to be 100% safe, but its better then "just don't drink".
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Old 03-24-2017, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
13,067 posts, read 9,685,311 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegabern View Post
I see a few typical victim shaming posts here;

Don't drink or do drugs, don't walk alone, etc. etc. Come on guys, where's the 'don't wear short skirts, don't lead men on'?
no no.. I wouldnt say that. what Im saying is girls should try and stay in control when their out.. Im not meaning they should act as nuns, I didnt.. but things have got so bad now in clubs with drinks being spiked, that it s better to be able to take care of yourself.. but mothers cant worry every minute of the day over our kids or we d go off our heads.. I worried more about my sons when they went out clubbing, to be honest...I would never shame girls or women... I was talking about being careful..and not anything to do with it being a womans fault if she gets attacked..of course its not.. but some might get took advantage of if intoxicated, all I meant...please dont twist my words..
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Old 03-24-2017, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica, Ca
4,428 posts, read 2,329,279 times
Reputation: 10112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegabern View Post
You're right. I should have said victim blaming. You're essentially saying if she didn't drink or walk alone she wouldn't have been raped, assaulted or harassed.

Of course advising against drinking or doing drugs is important for any parent. But so is telling your child to eat their vegetables. Neither prevent sexual assault.

That's not what I said at all. There are times that women are vulnerable like walking alone at night, so we are
"Cautioned" to be "careful" when we are out.... walking alone.
We've all heard the stories of girls being assaulted at frat parties so we're "cautioned" about the dangers of
Drinking too much or using drugs. It's not the victim who is to blame... it's the sexual predator that takes advantage of a drunk/drugged woman or a woman walking alone.
Sounds like you are saying that ... what's the point of being careful, because if you're going to be raped....You're going to be raped.
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Old 03-24-2017, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
13,067 posts, read 9,685,311 times
Reputation: 18516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaydrive00 View Post
No, its blaming other victims for what happened to them. Telling girls that if they dont drink or do drugs, they'll stay safe sends the message that if those other girls/women had not been drinking/doing drugs, then they wouldn't have been sexually assaulted. Even if you don't victim blame your own child, it is still telling them that if something does happen, then they could have some how prevented it.
No it doesnt mean that at all... but getting drunk at parties where you dont know people can be an open invitation to the wrong types of men.. it has nothing whatsover to do with the girl, but as females we have to be aware..
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