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Old 04-05-2017, 07:57 PM
 
Location: here
24,149 posts, read 27,944,133 times
Reputation: 30013

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I'm all for equality but there are very real biological differences between men and women that cannot be denied no matter how we feel things should be. That doesn't mean that dads can't be good caretakers, they most certainly can, but biologically they are different and those differences include how they respond to their babies. They can't breastfeed for instance and they can't experience the effects of oxytocin in response. They don't respond the same way to their babies cries. Ignoring biology is not unfriendly. It's reality.

Just a couple of examples to think about.

Women's Brains Respond Differently to Crying Babies


https://www.verywell.com/oxytocin-an...eeding-3574977
In a VERY general sense, I agree. BUT it just isn't true of all women or all men. Some women can't breast feed. Some moms get PPD and can't handle it. Some dads, like my husband, are naturally calm and nurturing, where some women are anxious and high strung.

 
Old 04-06-2017, 12:28 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
13,653 posts, read 10,793,101 times
Reputation: 19530
I really wonder why some parents even want a baby.. if their intention is to rush back to work.... when I had mine many moons ago.. I couldnt wait to get out with the pram on long walks.. take them to the clinic once a week to have them weighed, go to the park and watch the ducks an swans with them..watching them grown... all of the wonderful stuff mothers are missing, and deep down what a lot might regret in ten or twenty years... whether their stomping their feet now saying its their right...... of course women should be able to choose..to have careers and do things they enjoy, but why bother having them if you have no intention or rearing them too..I know feather might fly but my opinion..... working with kids if you are the breadwinner or need to get by is another thing.....
 
Old 04-06-2017, 01:23 AM
 
1,259 posts, read 931,062 times
Reputation: 3960
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
I really wonder why some parents even want a baby.. if their intention is to rush back to work.... when I had mine many moons ago.. I couldnt wait to get out with the pram on long walks.. take them to the clinic once a week to have them weighed, go to the park and watch the ducks an swans with them..watching them grown... all of the wonderful stuff mothers are missing, and deep down what a lot might regret in ten or twenty years... whether their stomping their feet now saying its their right...... of course women should be able to choose..to have careers and do things they enjoy, but why bother having them if you have no intention or rearing them too..I know feather might fly but my opinion..... working with kids if you are the breadwinner or need to get by is another thing.....
What makes you think that working mothers don't take their children on walks, to the doctor and to the park?
 
Old 04-06-2017, 01:47 AM
 
2,264 posts, read 787,620 times
Reputation: 2999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassy Fae View Post
Did you just call working parents immature for putting their children in childcare while working?
If you read my first post, you would know that I said I don't think that there's anything wrong with putting children in kindergarten or above if the parents must or chooses to return to work. But yes, it is immature--in fact, selfish and irresponsible--not to plan, financially and otherwise, for at least one parent to stay home for the first three years of the child's life. It's not rocket science. Why should a child be dumped in daycare if it's completely avoidable? Why is that so difficult to understand? Once you make the decision to have a child, their needs--not yours--become paramount. I'm sorry that people who didn't plan well are now forced to leave their infant in the care of strangers so that they can work. But it's absurd to then claim that it's okay just because you did it, just because you want it to be okay because you didn't plan well, because you now have no choice. Because it's not okay. There isn't a child development expert alive that would actually counsel a parent to leave their infant in daycare, or that doing so is as optimal for the child's development as being cared for by a loving parent. Absurd. That said, sometimes all the good planning in the world can't prevent the unexpected that life throws at us, and in that case, we have to make do to the best of our ability. But refusing to take responsibility for caring for a future child when that child is an infant and toddler isn't an "unexpected" circumstance.
 
Old 04-06-2017, 01:49 AM
 
2,264 posts, read 787,620 times
Reputation: 2999
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccc123 View Post
You do what's best for your family and let other people do what's best for their family. Don't call people names, don't make rude comments, don't assume you know the reason a mom maybe working. See that's non judgemental behavior.

Do you see the difference in your comment and my comment?
Yes. And the difference is that I spoke the truth of what children need, and what you spoke was a defensive and perhaps self-serving refusal to see that truth.
 
Old 04-06-2017, 04:09 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
13,653 posts, read 10,793,101 times
Reputation: 19530
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrganicSmallHome View Post
Yes. And the difference is that I spoke the truth of what children need, and what you spoke was a defensive and perhaps self-serving refusal to see that truth.
you certainly did and all those protesting are kidding themselves... they know a baby , toddler needs their mother.. no carer, nursery, creche can possibly replace a mother.. I think a lot of guilt on here..
 
Old 04-06-2017, 04:16 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
13,653 posts, read 10,793,101 times
Reputation: 19530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy in Nokomis View Post
Its sad that some women are so poor they have to work - but that's what society is set up to do these days. I was very lucky to be able to stay home and raise my own children instead of putting my babies in the hands of strangers. Some women are very lucky and have their own Moms or relatives to help care for their children - I did not have that luxury - I had to do it all on my won.

Every day there is another horrible story of a daycare or a nanny neglecting a child - very upsetting
I worked in a large creche facility in a sports complex in the late 80s to allow mothers to do their thing with aerobics, tanning and the gym... some childcare workers came with their little charges too and left them with us for two hours at a time.. while they chilled. our creche was only a contribution, no charge and I felt we got took to the cleaners with some of these carers etc.. and yes not all nursery assistants are interested in kids at all and shouldnt be in that job... some had favourites which you are never supposed to do. some were lazy , not all cut out for the job....but would put on a show when mothers came to collect their child... I saw it first hand .
 
Old 04-06-2017, 05:06 AM
 
1,259 posts, read 931,062 times
Reputation: 3960
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrganicSmallHome View Post
Yes. And the difference is that I spoke the truth of what children need, and what you spoke was a defensive and perhaps self-serving refusal to see that truth.
Your truth isn't everyone's truth, I had 1 that went to daycare and 2 that didn't not a bit of difference in their behavior, development or attachment to their parents. All three could read before they went to kindergarten, made decent grades, are polite, slightly spoiled, had to many toys, participate in extracurricular activities and most important they have turned out to be productive responsible adults. You should be ashamed of yourself for being so judgmental.
 
Old 04-06-2017, 05:40 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
13,653 posts, read 10,793,101 times
Reputation: 19530
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccc123 View Post
Your truth isn't everyone's truth, I had 1 that went to daycare and 2 that didn't not a bit of difference in their behavior, development or attachment to their parents. All three could read before they went to kindergarten, made decent grades, are polite, slightly spoiled, had to many toys, participate in extracurricular activities and most important they have turned out to be productive responsible adults. You should be ashamed of yourself for being so judgmental.
I had a friend who couldnt wait for her child to be hold enough for nursery school.. her child was marched along at three, so that this woman could go around others houses to sit and chat all day.. when she could have been to the park , museum or play area with her daughter..she didnt work, she just wanted the child out of her hair..
 
Old 04-06-2017, 05:59 AM
 
1,473 posts, read 416,363 times
Reputation: 776
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I'm all for equality but there are very real biological differences between men and women that cannot be denied no matter how we feel things should be. That doesn't mean that dads can't be good caretakers, they most certainly can, but biologically they are different and those differences include how they respond to their babies. They can't breastfeed for instance and they can't experience the effects of oxytocin in response. They don't respond the same way to their babies cries. Ignoring biology is not unfriendly. It's reality.

Just a couple of examples to think about.

Women's Brains Respond Differently to Crying Babies


https://www.verywell.com/oxytocin-an...eeding-3574977
A couple of points- There are most certainly physiological differences between the genders and I agree that moms are chemically adapted to rear our young to an extent. I too basked in the Oxycontin bath with my first. Although, keep in mind that we develop a tolerance with mood altering chemicala over time and it's short lived. I'm sure you noticed a difference between your first and your second.

Second, gender roles have a significant socialization component. I'm of the mind that most people, barring disability, can pretty much achieve and manage most things well. What differentiates is willingness, motivation, and confidence. Men can be fully capable, but are taught from the time they are young that they are not. We can all train ourselves to be more patient, to listen, to engage.

Also, studies show that men of young children have a drop in testosterone, so they have their own chemical experience going on that could be further nurtured.

Finally, if children are actually the priority, and this conversation is not just an exercise in self-back slapping, then it is in their best interest to have men sit side by side with mom. Why? Because a man's problem is everybody's problem. The more men taking a lead role in the family and child rearing the more likely we are to see family friendly practices in employment and government. Hands down.

So, for all our benefits they need to be given more credit and we need to have greater expectations.
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