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Old 04-06-2017, 10:43 AM
 
3,977 posts, read 1,601,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
Yes, actually.

There is a blog called The Belle Jar. I follow her page on Facebook. She posted a Buzzfeed article titled,
"17 Realities Everyone Who Is Child-Free By Choice Knows."

On the Facebook comments, some women took offense to the term breeder and many women - women who follow an ultra feminist writer and are self proclaimed feminists - defended the use of the word. Even the author herself defended the use of it.
Rationalization is the most powerful force in the universe. It can be used to excuse all kinds of offenses, and to sway the weak-minded, those who confuse petty grievances for substantive thought. I mean, the self-congratulatory and flighty ramblings of the self-absorbed literati you cite isn't really the banner I'd want to march under. And BuzzFeed makes People Magazine look like the Utne Reader.

Let's begin with the obvious: Words do mean things.

To prove my point, let me challenge you. Walk into a mostly African-American part of your city and liberally use the N-Word. Or toss about a similar epithet in a Latino neighborhood. Or stroll into a diner in backwoods Kentucky and call everybody there a bunch of knuckle-dragging, toothless hayseeds. And when the inevitable happens, blithely tell those rightfully offended to 'stop getting upset over a word.' Are you going to do it?

I bet not, because we both know the consequences would likely be swift and severe, putting paid to that kind of navel-gazing deconstructionist nonsense. So that entire "stop getting upset over a word" argument you quote might be seductive because it sounds bad-assed, but the entire proposition is a facile lie that can be pretty quickly dismantled. Why? Because these same dim bulbs who freak out over the word "childless" and write long and tedious blogs about trigger words and labels turn around and use the word "breeder" without compunction, even while knowing that language can be weaponized. Geez. Not only does this make them a bunch of hypocrites, but lazy hypocrites at that.

Second, the term 'breeder' is powered by intent. The word is intentionally reductionist and dehumanizing, putting those who elect to have children on the level of dogs and farm animals, mindless and driven by instinct. And, of course, by extension, those who choose not to have children are intellectually superior and in control of their hormones. So there's the entire manifest desire on the part of the term's users to self-segregate into a intellectually superior camp. In a sense, it's self-aggrandizement on the same order of people who tell everyone that they're members of Mensa or some such. In fact, it's worse, because it is a fairly transparent play by those who don't have children to gain moral vanity by diminishing those who have children. I have made a moral choice to not have children, which means you have made an immoral choice.

Here's the deal. If you don't want children, that's no skin off my nose. I don't think there's anything wrong with you. I don't think you're going through a phase. I don't think you're being self-centered. I also don't think you particularly deserve a medal for it. But that's no big deal either, because my opinion on the question of your having children doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

On the other hand, as the parent of three children, I don't think of myself as morally superior for having had them. Unless you can't take care of them and raise them to be responsible adults, then having children or not having children is a morally neutral proposition in and of itself. Certainly not something to merit having a label slapped on me.

Meanwhile, whether or not you choose to have children, I do think it's weird to throw those kinds of slurs at the people who are creating the next generation. You know, the people who will be taking care of us in our old age.

Last edited by MinivanDriver; 04-06-2017 at 11:13 AM..
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Old 04-06-2017, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,620 posts, read 12,794,470 times
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It is indeed intended to be offensive, and yes, I do find the term offensive.

The way I look at it is that it strips away any thought, any emotion, any nuance from the act of making, having, and raising a child. My wife and I talked about it quite a bit before we tried. We adore our daughter. We spend tons of time with her. Our whole lives revolve around nurturing and fostering this tiny human and doing all that we can to help her be the person she wants to be.

We are conscientious of others when we are out with her; if we are eating out and she starts crying, we take her outside. We understand that not everyone sees her as we do, and we don't expect them to; we know they can't, really. We're fine with that.

For some bitter misanthrope to look at us and call us "breeders" is to look at us and assume that she was not only unplanned, but that we couldn't form any sort of coherent thought above having sex and happening to create a baby, is inordinately insulting. The implication is that the only reason we did it was to pass on our genetic material, driven by animalistic urges, and that the act of us having a child has proven that we are unthinking beasts who would have chosen to do otherwise, were we to have been capable of thought.

Any personal revulsion to this aside, I feel sorry for anyone whose personal life is so lacking and most likely has been so unfulfilling that they actually expend the effort to judge people based on whether or not they have children. I make no assumptions one way or the other about people that don't; it's none of my business. I expect to be treated in kind.
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Old 04-06-2017, 10:54 AM
 
4,791 posts, read 1,548,819 times
Reputation: 7850
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
Rationalization is the most powerful force in the universe. It can be used to excuse all kinds of offenses, and to sway the weak-minded, those who confuse petty grievances for substantive thought. I mean, the self-congratulatory and flighty ramblings of the self-absorbed literati you cite isn't really the banner I'd want to march under. And BuzzFeed makes People Magazine look like the Utne Reader.

Let's begin with the obvious:

Words do mean things. Tell you what. Walk into a mostly African-American part of your city and liberally use the N-Word. Or toss about a similar epithet in a Latino neighborhood. And when the inevitable happens, blithely tell those being offended to 'stop getting upset over a word.' Are you going to do it?

I bet not, because we both know the consequences would likely be swift and severe, putting paid to that kind of navel-gazing deconstructionist nonsense. So that entire "stop getting upset over a word" argument is highly dishonest. Yet these same people who freak out over the word "childless" and write long and tedious blogs about trigger words and labels will use the word "breeder" without compunction. Geez. At least be consistent.

Second, let's look at intent. The term 'breeders' is intentionally reductionist, putting those who elect to have children on the level of dogs and farm animals, mindless and driven by instinct. And, of course, by extension, those who choose not to have children are intellectually superior and in control of their hormones. So there's the entire manifest desire on the part of the term's users to self-segregate into a intellectually superior camp. In a sense, it's self-aggrandizement on the same order of people who tell everyone that they're members of Mensa or some such. In fact, it's worse, because it is a fairly transparent play by those who have children to gain moral vanity by diminishing those who have children. I have made a moral choice to not have children, which means you have made an immoral choice.

Here's the deal. If you don't want children, that's no skin off my nose. I don't think there's anything wrong with you. I don't think you're going through a phase. I don't think you're being self-centered. I don't think you particularly deserve a medal for it, either. But that's no big deal either, because my opinion on the question of your having children doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

On the other hand, as the parent of three children, I don't think of myself as morally superior for having had them. Unless you can't take care of them and raise them to be responsible adults, then having children or not having children is a morally neutral proposition in and of itself.

Meanwhile, whether or not you choose to have children, I do think it's weird to throw those kinds of slurs at the people who are creating the next generation. You know, the people who will be taking care of us in our old age.
Brilliant.
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Old 04-06-2017, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,976 posts, read 11,798,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
Well without reading the article (no link and I don't have time or real inclination to search), I would say there is a difference between saying the word is not offensive and defending it's usage. I take the comments posted to mean that it's ok for (the child-free people who use this word) to be offensive because it's in response to feeling offended themselves as well as "yeah so what, I just call it as I see it", "it shouldn't be offensive if it's true" etc.

I think some people feel it's usage is justified, even if (and sometimes because) it's offensive.

^ ^ This!


People who are childfree (whether by choice or not) constantly have to deal with uninvited intrusions into their personal decisions, I think it is a reflection of that. Do I personally like the word? No. Do I understand it's usage? Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
Anyone else notice the trend of threads in the parenting section mostly against the idea of being a mom/dad, as if being a mom/dad is a horrible thing? Why is that?

No, I can honestly say I had not noticed.
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Old 04-06-2017, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,620 posts, read 12,794,470 times
Reputation: 11167
Quote:
Originally Posted by convextech View Post
Well, let's at least be honest. As parents, none of us decided to have a baby because it would help the world. We all wanted a baby, a squishy thing to love and that we thought would love us unconditionally, something we could teach what we know, and hope they do the things we never got to do. For some, they think they had kids just so they'd have someone to take care of them in their old age.

It is the single-most selfish thing a person can do, is to have a child.
Speak for yourself. I don't assume that my daughter will make any perceptible impact on the world at large and that was in no way a deciding factor in my wanting to be a parent, but if I just wanted a squishy little thing that I thought would love me unconditionally, I would have gotten a pomeranian. I've been a teacher and I apprentice people at my business, and so I have already passed on plenty of my knowledge for people to do what they will with. I don't care whether she follows in my footsteps or does something totally different, so long as it's the right path for her. I started that business, work my butt off, and I save so that I can provide her with the best life possible and support myself through the rest of my life, so that I have no need to burden a child with taking care of me.
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Old 04-06-2017, 11:11 AM
 
2,953 posts, read 1,393,316 times
Reputation: 5292
35 years ago I dated a guy who told his brother not to marry a certain woman. When I was there in the room!
He actually said, 'hey you want to breed athletes, you don't marry a small frail woman.'

Yeah we were over that night. I could see we weren't going to have a future.

So its not just people with no kids using this term.
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Old 04-06-2017, 11:31 AM
 
1,498 posts, read 1,512,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by convextech View Post
To me, a breeder is someone who continuously has children over and over.
Agree! I've only heard the term when referring to folks that have like 4 or more kids.
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Old 04-06-2017, 11:48 AM
 
3,977 posts, read 1,601,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawyersmom View Post
Agree! I've only heard the term when referring to folks that have like 4 or more kids.
Even if true, does that make it any more acceptable?
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Old 04-06-2017, 11:52 AM
 
1,498 posts, read 1,512,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
Even if true, does that make it any more acceptable?
Depends...are all 4 kids planned and they can afford to have them? If so...then probably not. If they are just popping out babies without any thought...then yeah...they are breeders.
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Old 04-06-2017, 11:53 AM
 
3,977 posts, read 1,601,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawyersmom View Post
Depends...are all 4 kids planned and they can afford to have them? If so...then probably not. If they are just popping out babies without any thought...then yeah...they are breeders.
Do you always put labels on people?
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