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Yes, it is great. But it's not easy. I have spent an extraordinary amount of time and energy striving to be a "good parent" so that my children will flourish.
Can you give some examples of when a spanking would be the best way to deal with a child?
When the parent has lost the rag and is out of control...
Most parents don't have the luxury of waiting around for an hour, etc. for their kid to "figure out" the right answer. I'm not going to send my kid to daycare or take him somewhere with no coat when it's 30 degrees outside because he doesn't want to wear it and just hope he eventually figures it out.
I think natural consequences works when you have the time for it and when the kids are a bit older (5 and up ) to actually understand them. If time is tight then you go with plan B. Parenting is not one size/way fits all.
I will say that I had the struggle of shorts/no coats in the winter with my kids the last couple of years. This year I left it to them. I told them both if you chose to not wear a coat or you chose to wear shorts and you get cold do not call me to bring me you a coat or pants. I will not. You made the decision and you will need to live with it until you get home. We've run into them not bringing coats to restaurants or other venues that could go either way and they are cold. The next time they make sure they have a coat and they are wearing pants. It took a couple of years and at 8/9 finally understand that natural consequence.
Any time kids are spanked less it's good. I don't get that people see it as a positive. Don't you wish you didn't spank? I mean, you don't like it, right? You must not WANT to spank? Or am I totally wrong?
My children are in their teens. I never spanked. I tried to slap my daughter once, but I was physically unable to. Literally could not make my hand connect with her body. I tried 3 times, and failed each one. I'm so glad. I lost control of myself that day, and lashed out in anger. But working on alternative discipline is something that has to be done from the start. When an incident happens, you have already put the effort in to building a strategy.
The thing that is lost on many people is that you don't parent without spanking & have no other forms of discipline. With my son, it was the threat of standing in the corner. Later, when he pushed boundaries, I would make him put his favorite toys in a paper sack that went on top of the refrigerator. He seldom acted out, and when he did, he would apologize. My daughter was harder. She pushed my buttons (hence the attempt to hit her). She was harder to discipline. She had to sit in a chair in the middle of the kitchen when she misbehaved. At first I had to hold her in the chair and keep adding time. But soon, when I said, "Time out chair, 1 minute," she would do it immediately. It took time and effort. I had to leave a cart full of food at the grocery store & go back later to get it. I had to leave a movie early, or a restaurant with our food suddenly packed to go. I remember once sitting in the car with her during a family dinner out, with her howling. It isn't all smooth sailing. But I do realize that spanking wouldn't have led to the trust and openness that we have now. My kids ARE great. They believe me when I say there will be consequences. The worst thing I can do to them is say, "I'm just really disappointed."
And I am not afraid to say I do judge those who spank. I was spanked once. It was the least effective punishment I could have received. All it did was make me resentful and afraid. I don't want mere compliance from my children--I want them to understand things. When my son was 3 or 4, he ran away from me in a crowded store & I couldn't find him. After 15 of the longest minutes of my life, he came out of hiding. I was so angry and relieved all at once. I did not spank him. I told him, "If you were lost and I had to go home without you, I would be so, so sad." He understood that. I told him, "When you run away I can't protect you from mean ladies!" Mean ladies were a specific fear of his. He really understood that. He never, ever tried to run away from me in a public place again. There was no need to spank him. None. Nada. But everything we had done up to that point made it effective. It doesn't happen in a bubble. When I was little, I vividly remember my mother pointing at roadkill and saying, "Oooh, that squirrel didn't listen to his mommy and ran out into the road! When you run into the road, you could get squished!" It worked. I never, ever tried to run into the road. I did the same with my kids. Then never, ever tried to run into a street.
My husband wasn't against spanking. He was spanked, and he "turned out just fine." Yeah, but he remembered the spanking and how it made him feel. He quickly realized that he didn't want to spank. He didn't want the kids to behave just because they were afraid. So we worked hard, together. And it worked. My kids are NOT magical unicorns. They are kids. They make mistakes. They are willful. They are imperfect. But nothing, NOTHING, they have ever done warranted physical violence on my part.
We don't spank. I agree with other posters that there are more effective options than hitting and frankly think spanking is a form of abuse. I feel it's far more effective to discuss what happened, institute a punishment such as taking away a favorite toy or forcing additional chores. We always talk about it calmly and rationally and explain the logic behind it. If I can't do that I wak away for a minute or take a deep breath. But we are both very calm and logical people and our son is the same even at 7.
My daughter was harder. She pushed my buttons (hence the attempt to hit her). She was harder to discipline. She had to sit in a chair in the middle of the kitchen when she misbehaved. At first I had to hold her in the chair and keep adding time.
I sympathize with you completely. But if you read this thread from the beginning, you will see that some people believe that what you did (holding a child in a chair) is abusive and inappropriate. One adult can not hold another down in a chair, so no one must not hold children down either. This is physical force and it is wrong. The only appropriate way to deal with children (they say) is to coax them into willingness and wait until they are ready to comply. Anything less is lazy parenting and abuse.
I sympathize with you completely. But if you read this thread from the beginning, you will see that some people believe that what you did (holding a child in a chair) is abusive and inappropriate. One adult can not hold another down in a chair, so no one must not hold children down either. This is physical force and it is wrong. The only appropriate way to deal with children (they say) is to coax them into willingness and wait until they are ready to comply. Anything less is lazy parenting and abuse.
I have read this thread from the beginning.
I think this could be a lazy interpretation of what I said. It does your argument no good to take it to ridiculous lengths. Do you see a difference between keeping a child in/returning a child to a chair as a discipline and hitting her?
Reasonable consequences for choosing behavior is what I am talking about. If an adult shoplifts, that is wrong. Can I throw stones at him? NO. Can I cut off his hand? NO. Can he be arrested? Detained? Fined? Yes. If I drive over the speed limit, can another driver run into me if he chooses to? No. Can the police stop me and write me a ticket? Of course. There are appropriate reactions. I, and many others, don't find spanking to be an appropriate reactions. But in no way do I condone a lawless free for all. I think that should be abundantly clear if my goal is to provide context to my child about her punishment, and that every misbehavior will have a consequence.
Really, we are all trying to accomplish the same thing--showing a child that certain behaviors have consequences. I think we non-spankers are trying to find a way to do that so the child understands the WHY of discipline, and how to modify behavior to avoid it so the behavior isn't repeated. I honestly don't see how striking a child does that.
btw, my "child' is in his 50s now, and yes I spanked him. He and his wife did not spank their 2 children, and in retrospect I wish I had not spanked him. But since I was spanked as a child I just saw it as normal.
Really, we are all trying to accomplish the same thing--showing a child that certain behaviors have consequences. I think we non-spankers are trying to find a way to do that so the child understands the WHY of discipline, and how to modify behavior to avoid it so the behavior isn't repeated. I honestly don't see how striking a child does that.
Don't think I was attacking your parenting. On the contrary, you sound quite reasonable. I merely pointed out that certain posters here would consider holding a child down inappropriate--perhaps not as evil as spanking, but still inappropriate and ineffective. Recall that at the beginning of the thread I mentioned making a noncompliant child sit in a carseat against her will, and was chided because the right thing to do is to wait until the child decides she wants to sit there.
I think every parent's ultimate goal is for their children to understand the advantages of making good decisions and the consequences of making bad ones. The assumption that non-spankers want their children to understand the "why of discipline" and prevent negative behaviors from occurring, while the spankers just don't care about those things, is a very wrong one.
In fact, all punishments (or you can call them consequences if you like, but they are not "natural consequences") such as spanking, time-outs, removing possessions, enforced chores, and so forth are really just an adult using his or her superior size, strength, and position to impose his or her will on a child. We can argue about which of these is justifiable, which is cruel, which is effective and which ineffective, and so forth, but those are rather arbitrary distinctions and also depend a lot on the child. One child will do anything to avoid a time-out; another really doesn't care. I was spanked occasionally as a child and it didn't faze me, but I was crushed when my mother gave me the "silent treatment." It was far more cruel for my parent to refuse to respond to me for hours, than to give me a light spanking which was over in a moment. Yes, for me the spanking was "ineffective," but just the mention of spanking was enough to get my sister to comply immediately. Your mileage, and your child's, may vary.
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