Europeans spank their kids less... Good or Bad? (milk, rates, video)
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I didn't say or imply that. I was musing about overall differences between American and German society. Of course I can't extrapolate from the behavior of my niece and nephew to that of everyone in Germany, but it seems that they've been taught that it is wrong or pushy to openly express an opinion or desire. Maybe it is seen as using "force" on the other person. I really don't know.
These kids visit for a month or so almost every summer. We do a lot of outings and get-togethers with them. This is a typical exchange:
Us: Is there anything special you want to do today?
Them: No...anything. Whatever you want is fine.
Us: How about we go see a movie?
Them: Well, hmm, I don't really feel like a movie today.
Us: Okay, that's fine. Why don't we go for a hike instead!
Them: Umm...I don't know. I don't really like hiking.
Us: ....
Repeated questioning reveals that while they said that "whatever we want is fine," they also don't feel like shopping, don't like riding bikes, aren't interested in meeting my children's friends, and in fact the only option that is acceptable is going to the beach.
Now, this may be a very polite way of behaving, but it is far from direct, much less assertive. If one of my kids is asked by an uncle or aunt, "What do you want to do today?" they will immediately reply, "I want to go see the new movie!" (or whatever it is). Not that they are not open to other ideas, but if they have an opinion, they will say it straight out. These cultural differences have caused some tension among all the kids in recent years, as apparently the cousins think my kids are "pushy" while my kids complain that the cousins are "boring."
That's what YOU think. In reality, some kids DO catch bronchitis ( and even pneumonia) after being out in a cold. There is more to "little coldness" sometimes than just "unpleasant feeling" when it comes to children, and not only children.
You don't catch these things because you are out in the cold.
Bacteria or viruses usually cause pneumonia. Pneumonia usually starts when you breathe the germs into your lungs. You may be more likely to get the disease after having a cold or the flu. These illnesses make it hard for your lungs to fight infection, so it is easier to get pneumonia.
Bronchitis is an inflammation or swelling of the bronchial tubes (bronchi), the air passages between the mouth and nose and the lungs. Bronchitis describes a condition where the lining of the bronchial tubes becomes inflamed. Acute bronchitis is normally caused by viruses, typically those that also cause colds and flu. It can also be caused by bacterial infection and exposure to substances that irritate the lungs, such as tobacco smoke, dust, fumes, vapors, and air pollution.
Being out in the cold *can* exacerbate a pre-existing cough. If you have a cold or the flu than you probably should not be out in the cold air, but if you are healthy, you won't get these things from the cold air.
You don't catch these things because you are out in the cold.
Bacteria or viruses usually cause pneumonia. Pneumonia usually starts when you breathe the germs into your lungs. You may be more likely to get the disease after having a cold or the flu. These illnesses make it hard for your lungs to fight infection, so it is easier to get pneumonia.
Bronchitis is an inflammation or swelling of the bronchial tubes (bronchi), the air passages between the mouth and nose and the lungs. Bronchitis describes a condition where the lining of the bronchial tubes becomes inflamed. Acute bronchitis is normally caused by viruses, typically those that also cause colds and flu. It can also be caused by bacterial infection and exposure to substances that irritate the lungs, such as tobacco smoke, dust, fumes, vapors, and air pollution.
Being out in the cold *can* exacerbate a pre-existing cough. If you have a cold or the flu than you probably should not be out in the cold air, but if you are healthy, you won't get these things from the cold air.
PLEASE read the links I provided. You are correct that the proximate cause of bronchitis and pneumonia are viruses and bacteria. But. . . "Cold weather and respiratory disease, including flu, also go hand in hand. Research has shown that cold spells are reliably followed by upticks in the number of deaths from respiratory disease. Some of this may have to do with a few infectious organisms, like flu viruses, thriving in colder temperatures, but there's also evidence that exposure to cold temperatures suppresses the immune system, so the opportunities for infection increase. " (From the Harvard Med link)
Here's a link from an actual study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17705968
With the mod's forbearance, 5 sentences. "There is a constant increase in hospitalizations and mortality during winter months; cardiovascular diseases as well as respiratory infections are responsible for a large proportion of this added morbidity and mortality. Exposure to cold has often been associated with increased incidence and severity of respiratory tract infections. The data available suggest that exposure to cold, either through exposure to low environmental temperatures or during induced hypothermia, increases the risk of developing upper and lower respiratory tract infections and dying from them; in addition, the longer the duration of exposure the higher the risk of infection. Although not all studies agree, most of the available evidence from laboratory and clinical studies suggests that inhaled cold air, cooling of the body surface and cold stress induced by lowering the core body temperature cause pathophysiological responses such as vasoconstriction in the respiratory tract mucosa and suppression of immune responses, which are responsible for increased susceptibility to infections. The general public and public health authorities should therefore keep this in mind and take appropriate measures to prevent increases in morbidity and mortality during winter due to respiratory infections."
To me, that's saying "wear a coat when it's cold outside".
PLEASE read the links I provided. You are correct that the proximate cause of bronchitis and pneumonia are viruses and bacteria. But. . . "Cold weather and respiratory disease, including flu, also go hand in hand. Research has shown that cold spells are reliably followed by upticks in the number of deaths from respiratory disease. Some of this may have to do with a few infectious organisms, like flu viruses, thriving in colder temperatures, but there's also evidence that exposure to cold temperatures suppresses the immune system, so the opportunities for infection increase. " (From the Harvard Med link)
Here's a link from an actual study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17705968
With the mod's forbearance, 5 sentences. "There is a constant increase in hospitalizations and mortality during winter months; cardiovascular diseases as well as respiratory infections are responsible for a large proportion of this added morbidity and mortality. Exposure to cold has often been associated with increased incidence and severity of respiratory tract infections. The data available suggest that exposure to cold, either through exposure to low environmental temperatures or during induced hypothermia, increases the risk of developing upper and lower respiratory tract infections and dying from them; in addition, the longer the duration of exposure the higher the risk of infection. Although not all studies agree, most of the available evidence from laboratory and clinical studies suggests that inhaled cold air, cooling of the body surface and cold stress induced by lowering the core body temperature cause pathophysiological responses such as vasoconstriction in the respiratory tract mucosa and suppression of immune responses, which are responsible for increased susceptibility to infections. The general public and public health authorities should therefore keep this in mind and take appropriate measures to prevent increases in morbidity and mortality during winter due to respiratory infections."
To me, that's saying "wear a coat when it's cold outside".
That generally older people. Young kids often feel overheated, especially when they are so active, cf the parents standing around in the coats feeling cold.
Have the coat at hand, but a kid knows if he's hot or not - like we all do,
PLEASE read the links I provided. You are correct that the proximate cause of bronchitis and pneumonia are viruses and bacteria. But. . . "Cold weather and respiratory disease, including flu, also go hand in hand. Research has shown that cold spells are reliably followed by upticks in the number of deaths from respiratory disease. Some of this may have to do with a few infectious organisms, like flu viruses, thriving in colder temperatures, but there's also evidence that exposure to cold temperatures suppresses the immune system, so the opportunities for infection increase. " (From the Harvard Med link)
Here's a link from an actual study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17705968
With the mod's forbearance, 5 sentences. "There is a constant increase in hospitalizations and mortality during winter months; cardiovascular diseases as well as respiratory infections are responsible for a large proportion of this added morbidity and mortality. Exposure to cold has often been associated with increased incidence and severity of respiratory tract infections. The data available suggest that exposure to cold, either through exposure to low environmental temperatures or during induced hypothermia, increases the risk of developing upper and lower respiratory tract infections and dying from them; in addition, the longer the duration of exposure the higher the risk of infection. Although not all studies agree, most of the available evidence from laboratory and clinical studies suggests that inhaled cold air, cooling of the body surface and cold stress induced by lowering the core body temperature cause pathophysiological responses such as vasoconstriction in the respiratory tract mucosa and suppression of immune responses, which are responsible for increased susceptibility to infections. The general public and public health authorities should therefore keep this in mind and take appropriate measures to prevent increases in morbidity and mortality during winter due to respiratory infections."
To me, that's saying "wear a coat when it's cold outside".
But - that says cold increases your chances - nevertheless, you still cant get a cold or flu with out a cold virus or flu virus. Its not magic.
All children ARE DIFFERENT.
Some plainly refuse any reasoning, some just want to push their boundaries, some are so quiet that you have to pill them off like chewing gum.
Some don't require any spanking, some do.
There is no one recipe for all.
But I am talking about younger children of course.
When they get older, they already have brains and understand the reasoning.
At this point, if the trust and understanding between child and parent is not established, and boundaries are not set, it's too late to get physical with children. It means the bond is not there, and it will bring only more resistance and trouble.
That's the way I see it.
Whoa whoa whoa, so you only advocate for spanking kids when they're too young to understand what's happening and why the person they love and trust the most is hurting them?
That generally older people. Young kids often feel overheated, especially when they are so active, cf the parents standing around in the coats feeling cold.
Have the coat at hand, but a kid knows if he's hot or not - like we all do,
Kids have a smaller body mass, therefore less fat/muscles mass to keep them warm. It may seem like that when they're out playing, but that's just another one of those urban legends. The conversation revolved around allowing a kid to go outside without a coat, with some parents thinking that was just fine; the kid would get cold and learn a lesson. You know "natural consequences". It was very non-specific for how long the child might be out, what s/he might be doing, etc. Doctor: Cold harder on kids than adults | WTOP "“Kids aren’t little adults, they will dissipate heat much faster than we will,” says Dr. Erik Schobitz, medical director of the pediatric emergency room at Adventist Health Care Shady Grove Medical Center.
“They don’t have the fat reserves or the muscle reserves to retain heat much like a 200-pound adult would,” Schobitz says.
He says kids also tend to ignore the cold when they are playing — which is why parents have to take extra precautions and step in when they sense trouble." "
And since you double posted pretty much the same stuff, I'll add-cold viruses are everywhere. It's pretty hard to avoid them.
Kids have a smaller body mass, therefore less fat/muscles mass to keep them warm. It may seem like that when they're out playing, but that's just another one of those urban legends. The conversation revolved around allowing a kid to go outside without a coat, with some parents thinking that was just fine; the kid would get cold and learn a lesson. You know "natural consequences". It was very non-specific for how long the child might be out, what s/he might be doing, etc. Doctor: Cold harder on kids than adults | WTOP "“Kids aren’t little adults, they will dissipate heat much faster than we will,” says Dr. Erik Schobitz, medical director of the pediatric emergency room at Adventist Health Care Shady Grove Medical Center.
“They don’t have the fat reserves or the muscle reserves to retain heat much like a 200-pound adult would,” Schobitz says.
He says kids also tend to ignore the cold when they are playing — which is why parents have to take extra precautions and step in when they sense trouble." "
And since you double posted pretty much the same stuff, I'll add-cold viruses are everywhere. It's pretty hard to avoid them.
But along with that " natural consequence " is setting a limit. "Fine. Go without a coat. But you do NOT get to stay outside with your friends." It's a matter if playing the long game. Honestly, why do we keep focusing on the outliers? It makes no sense. Even at 25 degrees, a kid standing outside for 10 minutes is going too be cold, but fine. Yes, IF wind chills are bad, IF the kid has a compromised immune system, IF...
And that's where we as parents have to do the heavy lifting. But in general, allowing a kid to walk into the grocery store from thw parking lot will not be an issue. And I think THAT is the spirit of what I meant to get at originally--we have to adapt to the moment.
But along with that " natural consequence " is setting a limit. "Fine. Go without a coat. But you do NOT get to stay outside with your friends." It's a matter if playing the long game. Honestly, why do we keep focusing on the outliers? It makes no sense. Even at 25 degrees, a kid standing outside for 10 minutes is going too be cold, but fine. Yes, IF wind chills are bad, IF the kid has a compromised immune system, IF...
And that's where we as parents have to do the heavy lifting. But in general, allowing a kid to walk into the grocery store from thw parking lot will not be an issue. And I think THAT is the spirit of what I meant to get at originally--we have to adapt to the moment.
But that is not what the poster who brought up this example said! She said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaydrive00
What are natural consequences? They are consequences that result naturally from the child's behavior, or the choices he/she has made. It depends entirely on the situation as to what it might be, but it only works if the parent/caregiver follows through. And of course the adult needs to think it through to knowing that the child isn't going to end up harming themselves.
A simple example would be if a child doesnt want to put a coat on, when they go outside they're going to be cold. Being cold is a natural consequence to not wearing a coat in the winter. Or they want to bring a favorite toy out in public, but then get stuck carrying the toy around all day. I didn't want to bring the toy, so I'm not carrying it. I'll keep an eye out and make sure it doesn't get lost, but that only means I'll be saying "Oops, you left bear on that bench, go grab bear so he doesn't get left behind."
Yeah, in either example you could beat the child when they throw a fit about not wanting to wear a coat or when they want to bring a toy along. Or they can be given options and figure it out themselves. I much prefer the option that doesn't make me the bad guy.
We don't know that she meant "allowing a kid to walk into the grocery store from thw parking lot". It sounds like she meant going out to play! And people got ridiculous, as in "it's OK as long as it's not cold enough for them to get frostbite"! Seriously? That's pretty darned cold. And some people just blew off the whole idea about getting cold being a health issue.
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