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Old 12-31-2017, 05:13 AM
 
Location: Florida
3,520 posts, read 2,806,442 times
Reputation: 7249

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
I totally disagree with that. If a kid feels like they need help and parents for whatever reason don't try to get them that help, I not only feel that it's a right, but it's an obligation to help that child if asked. I know it's going to going to be an unpopular opinion but parents don't always do whats best for their child if it conflicts with their own agenda, "it's too expensive, it's too embarrassing, we don't air our dirty laundry, it's just a phase", ect.
And if there are real problems at home what makes you think a parent wants a kid telling some counselor what's really going on?
Absolutely. Not to mention, I have two teens. Iíd be delusional if I thought they always come to me first with any issues. I WANT them to have other adults in their lives that they can talk to about things that are bothering them. By the age of 16, itís excellemt that the girl has a good relationship with the OP and that she feels she can talk to her. Itís time for Dad to be letting go of the reigns.
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Old 12-31-2017, 05:40 AM
 
347 posts, read 118,064 times
Reputation: 598
I think you overstepped. It's not your place to decide whether someone else's child is depressed and/or needs counseling or even a book like that. She's a teenager! Life is full of angst at that age. Since you don't have children of your own, you might not have experienced the roller coaster teens are.

You've painted a very one-sided picture of a man who is not even here to defend himself on a PUBLIC forum. Other posters are even suggesting abuse! I think you know that it is not true because if it is and you did not report it, then it's on you. It's odd that all of his other family members think he is a good father except for...3 of you. Considering you spend little time with the family maybe you don't see how he is the rest of the time. I can imagine how difficult it would be to raise 4 daughters by myself. Does he have a job, a house? Are the girls hungry or dirty?

When you say he is controlling...well many kids who don't want to follow rules would say the same thing. Being a strong disciplinarian is not the same as being controlling. Again, I think what you've heard from the daughter may have been a little dramatic.

Why did he open the gifts? Sounds like he has problems with YOU and your DH and probably wanted to check what was in the package. There's obviously more history there than you've let on.

I have no idea why you felt the need to prove yourself by sending the invoice and tracking number. Was it to drive a wedge between the father and daughter? Was it more important that you were "right"? Since this happened over 2 months ago - and you apparently are not going to speak to the father - it's probably time to let it go.
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Old 12-31-2017, 08:54 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
69,519 posts, read 60,609,161 times
Reputation: 63677
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlawrence01 View Post
I think that the OP is the problem. If you are going to give a gift like that, you should have cleared it with the father first. PERIOD.
"a book like that"? It wasn't porn, or a flaming revolutionary call to arms, or anything personally or politically subversive. OTOH, I suppose it's possible he took it as a personal critique. "Why should life suck for my daughter? I make sure my daughter is happy." Enforced happiness, yeah, that'll work....
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Old 12-31-2017, 08:58 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
69,519 posts, read 60,609,161 times
Reputation: 63677
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
I totally disagree with that. If a kid feels like they need help and parents for whatever reason don't try to get them that help, I not only feel that it's a right, but it's an obligation to help that child if asked. I know it's going to going to be an unpopular opinion but parents don't always do whats best for their child if it conflicts with their own agenda, "it's too expensive, it's too embarrassing, we don't air our dirty laundry, it's just a phase", ect.
And if there are real problems at home what makes you think a parent wants a kid telling some counselor what's really going on?
This raises a very important question, of: what is the adult relatives' role in a child's life? Should a relative step in, if they notice a child is being mistreated or controlled excessively, or neglected? And if so, what should that "stepping in" look like? Is stepping in to help a child undermining the parents' authority? SHOULD the parents' authority be undermined in some cases?

All very important questions.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:04 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
69,519 posts, read 60,609,161 times
Reputation: 63677
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
I think it is odd for the father to be opening mail, but she is 16 and he is her father and he gets to decide what books she can read.

What I think was really inappropriate is your determination to prove to the child that you sent the book. Are you trying to start a fight between the girl and her father? As soon as you heard she didn't get the book, you should have backed out of that conversation and taken it up with her father instead of with the 16 year old.
No, he doesn't, really. He only gets to have the illusion of being able to control what she reads. Unless he prevents her from going to the library (I can't see how he would do that), AND prevents her from browsing bookstores (ditto), AND from visiting friends who may have books he doesn't approve of, and unless he visits her school library to review all the books available and can demand that school authorities remove any book he doesn't approve of, dad is grasping at straws.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:52 AM
 
Location: alabama.
2,296 posts, read 1,502,766 times
Reputation: 4613
from the book review i would want to read the book myself then give it to my daughter .. perhaps that`s the case .. lots of things in life do actually suck ..
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Early America
1,331 posts, read 627,925 times
Reputation: 2818
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
I totally disagree with that. If a kid feels like they need help and parents for whatever reason don't try to get them that help, I not only feel that it's a right, but it's an obligation to help that child if asked. I know it's going to going to be an unpopular opinion but parents don't always do whats best for their child if it conflicts with their own agenda, "it's too expensive, it's too embarrassing, we don't air our dirty laundry, it's just a phase", ect.
And if there are real problems at home what makes you think a parent wants a kid telling some counselor what's really going on?
I agree with you in theory but the facts are unknown in this case. The OP doesn't live near the family; either can't or won't talk to the father; and the other adults in the family think the father is wonderful. He may be fooling everyone else and the OP may be 100% correct but she is basing her conclusions on hearsay - phone conversations with a teen. She is not in a position to accurately or objectively assess the situation. That is all I, and others, are pointing out.


This witch trial is ridiculous. Be the adult and communicate with the father to gain some perspective. Begin by apologizing if he thought the book was inappropriate. Someone upthread touched on this dynamic of the OP + the teen vs. the father. It's terribly unsupportive and possibly damaging. Asking the father about the book is an excellent opportunity to begin a supportive dialogue IF the OP can manage to do it in a non-judgmental and non-accusatory way.
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Old 12-31-2017, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Stuck on the East Coast, hoping to head West
3,785 posts, read 8,503,980 times
Reputation: 7327
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplySagacious View Post
I agree with you in theory but the facts are unknown in this case. The OP doesn't live near the family; either can't or won't talk to the father; and the other adults in the family think the father is wonderful. He may be fooling everyone else and the OP may be 100% correct but she is basing her conclusions on hearsay - phone conversations with a teen. She is not in a position to accurately or objectively assess the situation. That is all I, and others, are pointing out.


This witch trial is ridiculous. Be the adult and communicate with the father to gain some perspective. Begin by apologizing if he thought the book was inappropriate. Someone upthread touched on this dynamic of the OP + the teen vs. the father. It's terribly unsupportive and possibly damaging. Asking the father about the book is an excellent opportunity to begin a supportive dialogue IF the OP can manage to do it in a non-judgmental and non-accusatory way.
I totally agree with you.

The OP doesn't have the information or, I'd argue, the training or the tools to deal with this teen's problem, assuming one exists.

If the OP really cares, she would try to build a relationship with the dad or encourage her husband to reconnect with his brother in order to get information.

If OP is truly concerned the child is being abused, then she has a responsibility to report her suspicions to a social worker, the police, or even the school guidance counselor or someone else who has the training and tools to assess the situation and take the appropriate action.
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Old 12-31-2017, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Rivendell
367 posts, read 279,316 times
Reputation: 1035
Hmm. Maybe it's because it said "suck" on the cover? (Though I don't know why any man would take issue with that word, honestly. That would be hypocritical.)

In any case I have to say that she's a minor, he's the father and he can open her stuff and decide whether or not she can have it. Maybe he is reading the book to evaluate it (which would be smart, actually.) It does seem a sucky thing to do but you'd have to talk to him about it.
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Old 12-31-2017, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Where the sun likes to shine!!
20,021 posts, read 24,879,149 times
Reputation: 86760
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy View Post
I'd say it was normal if she were 6. Maybe if she was 10. But 16?? I couldn't imagine going into my teens' mail and taking out a book I found objectionable. Totally overbearing and inappropriate. (And the book is fine... but even if it were more edgy, she's 16!)
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
No wonder the poor girl has issues! How wonderful of you to be a presence in her life that she can confide in, and also serve as a model of a "healthy" adult for her! That is PRICELESS!

Do you live near enough to her, to be able to see her for lunch, or a girl's day on a weekend? You could give her the book then. I would do this, and consider it in my mind to be an experiment. "Let's see what happens when I give her this gift her father apparently censored from her mail" type of thing. Does he go through the girls' stuff on a regular basis, snooping in their rooms? What's wrong with him?

Does she have college plans? If so, she'll be out of the house in a couple of years, thank heaven. Do you think her dad will try to control where she goes to college? Once she's out of the house, you can see her more frequently. It sounds like she could very much benefit from more interaction with you. And at college, she can get free counseling. He might require her to start at a community college, so he can continue controlling her.
Thank you so much. I am there for her and would never let her down. She knows she can talk to me about anything and I think kids need to have an adult they can talk to about anything without being fearful.


Yes she has been pressured into thinking about colleges. Sadly she has issues at school and also has some difficulties and takes special classes. Being that the academic part of school is tough on her she was not thrilled about college. When I saw her over the summer I brought her about 30 pages of different careers she could have without a 4 year degree. I just wanted her to know there were other options. She picked a few things she liked and told me she wanted to discuss it with her father but she was very nervous about talking to him. I told her to do more research and talk to him in an adult manner and have answers for him when he asked her questions. Basically I told her to be prepared before she broached it with her father. On a very good note she got up the courage and spoke with him last month about going to a trade school and he was OK with it



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Yes, this extreme control sounds like he's a potential abuser. What possible reason would he have to suspect some kind of inappropriate content in a gift from a relative? That's not normal. His searching of his daughters' mail seems to have become compulsive.
He is controlling as can be seen with all of the daughters except for the one who ran away. They are nervous, not confident, and all have social issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird View Post
We don't have this guy's side of the story at all.
True...and I'm sure he would spin a tale.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplySagacious View Post
You are going on what she told you which may or may not be true.

I don't know. Maybe he thought you would jump to conclusions about his decision like you are doing now. You could ask him if he thought the book was inappropriate for her. Unless I misunderstood, you haven't read the book. He had the advantage of personally reviewing it.
Yes he did and he should have called me so I could return it and buy a new gift.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
1. You should've cleared it w/the parents, since it's a how-to about feelings and such. (as opposed to, say, a "How to invest when you're young" financial book)

Why...any money they get or make he takes so that wouldn't help them

2. Father was definitely wrong to steal the book, which is what he did. He's a thief. Even when someone lives in his house, those people, even minors, OWN certain things. He does not own everything given to others who live in his house. If he takes things, he's a thief.

3. Father was wrong not to talk to you about the book. Otherwise, you'll just send another one.

4. Father was wrong not to tell his daughter that he stole one of her gifts.

5. Are you SURE they were all in the same box, and the box was unopened? Delivery men DO steal things. Did you put all the gifts in that box yourself? It was wrapped with package tape?

The dad probably did steal it, since he opened her gifts without her present. Which is bizarre in and of itself. If that girl thinks that was a sweet thing for him to do, she's a lost cause. Move on. She's not your kid.
Yes it was all in the same box.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GiGi603 View Post





If someone had sent my teen sons a gift --someone I didn't know that well or maybe I did know, I would have probably taken a sneak peek at the gift. Or if they had opened it and I felt it was inappropriate, it would have disappeared.
I get it but wouldn't you have told the sender?



Quote:
Originally Posted by blueherons View Post
I think the gift and the book was very sweet.

I think all you can do in this situation is just keep being there for her.

You'll never know the great good you may be doing for her.

Thank you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jlawrence01 View Post
I think that the OP is the problem. If you are going to give a gift like that, you should have cleared it with the father first. PERIOD.
I don't like secrets and hiding truths from young adults.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
I totally disagree with that. If a kid feels like they need help and parents for whatever reason don't try to get them that help, I not only feel that it's a right, but it's an obligation to help that child if asked. I know it's going to going to be an unpopular opinion but parents don't always do whats best for their child if it conflicts with their own agenda, "it's too expensive, it's too embarrassing, we don't air our dirty laundry, it's just a phase", ect.
And if there are real problems at home what makes you think a parent wants a kid telling some counselor what's really going on?
Agreed there are many parents do what is best for "them" and their appearances.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ForLoveOnly View Post
^OP, please ignore this and the other similar replies.^



^This poster has it right!^
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy View Post
Absolutely. Not to mention, I have two teens. I’d be delusional if I thought they always come to me first with any issues. I WANT them to have other adults in their lives that they can talk to about things that are bothering them. By the age of 16, it’s excellemt that the girl has a good relationship with the OP and that she feels she can talk to her. It’s time for Dad to be letting go of the reigns.

Thank you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by LaBuenaVida View Post
I think you overstepped. It's not your place to decide whether someone else's child is depressed and/or needs counseling or even a book like that. She's a teenager! Life is full of angst at that age. Since you don't have children of your own, you might not have experienced the roller coaster teens are.

You've painted a very one-sided picture of a man who is not even here to defend himself on a PUBLIC forum. Other posters are even suggesting abuse! I think you know that it is not true because if it is and you did not report it, then it's on you. It's odd that all of his other family members think he is a good father except for...3 of you. Considering you spend little time with the family maybe you don't see how he is the rest of the time. I can imagine how difficult it would be to raise 4 daughters by myself. Does he have a job, a house? Are the girls hungry or dirty?

When you say he is controlling...well many kids who don't want to follow rules would say the same thing. Being a strong disciplinarian is not the same as being controlling. Again, I think what you've heard from the daughter may have been a little dramatic.

Why did he open the gifts? Sounds like he has problems with YOU and your DH and probably wanted to check what was in the package. There's obviously more history there than you've let on.

I have no idea why you felt the need to prove yourself by sending the invoice and tracking number. Was it to drive a wedge between the father and daughter? Was it more important that you were "right"? Since this happened over 2 months ago - and you apparently are not going to speak to the father - it's probably time to let it go.
He has had child protective services called on him. But of course that is all because of the mother...who hasn't been there for 10 years.

Yes there is a lot more but that wasn't my issue. I am there and honest with his girls and all of my nieces nephews and kids. I do not lie and I do not judge them. I try to give good advice.

I also know that teenagers are about drama and yes they lie...but when you hear 4 different versions of similar stories from all of his daughters over the years it's kind of hard to believe him.

No it's not about being right...it's about the lies. I don't "ever" want to have my trust broken with the girls because if his lies.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
"a book like that"? It wasn't porn, or a flaming revolutionary call to arms, or anything personally or politically subversive. OTOH, I suppose it's possible he took it as a personal critique. "Why should life suck for my daughter? I make sure my daughter is happy." Enforced happiness, yeah, that'll work....
I like happy. It's the best place to be.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
This raises a very important question, of: what is the adult relatives' role in a child's life? Should a relative step in, if they notice a child is being mistreated or controlled excessively, or neglected? And if so, what should that "stepping in" look like? Is stepping in to help a child undermining the parents' authority? SHOULD the parents' authority be undermined in some cases?

All very important questions.
Child services has been called on him.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
No, he doesn't, really. He only gets to have the illusion of being able to control what she reads. Unless he prevents her from going to the library (I can't see how he would do that), AND prevents her from browsing bookstores (ditto), AND from visiting friends who may have books he doesn't approve of, and unless he visits her school library to review all the books available and can demand that school authorities remove any book he doesn't approve of, dad is grasping at straws.
She is not allowed to have friends to the house...none of his girls were.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HOSS429 View Post
from the book review i would want to read the book myself then give it to my daughter .. perhaps that`s the case .. lots of things in life do actually suck ..
True.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplySagacious View Post
I agree with you in theory but the facts are unknown in this case. The OP doesn't live near the family; either can't or won't talk to the father; and the other adults in the family think the father is wonderful. He may be fooling everyone else and the OP may be 100% correct but she is basing her conclusions on hearsay - phone conversations with a teen. She is not in a position to accurately or objectively assess the situation. That is all I, and others, are pointing out.


This witch trial is ridiculous. Be the adult and communicate with the father to gain some perspective. Begin by apologizing if he thought the book was inappropriate. Someone upthread touched on this dynamic of the OP + the teen vs. the father. It's terribly unsupportive and possibly damaging. Asking the father about the book is an excellent opportunity to begin a supportive dialogue IF the OP can manage to do it in a non-judgmental and non-accusatory way.
Have you never been taken in by a person who is a lair? It is fairly common that people can get away with lies and people buy into their stories all the time. You may think I am the one telling the tall tales here and that is fine but what would my reason be? I have no one here I want or need to impress. Her father has to keep up appearances in the family.


As I have said he has 4 daughters. One ran away as soon as she turned 18. He lied about not knowing where she was. My DH and I are the only ones who will talk to her and be there for her if she needs help. The rest of the family dropped her like a hot potato. It's sad when an 18 year old is treated that way. All of the other daughters over the years and still have multiple problems with him. So no I am not listening ot one teenage girl.

Sorry I don't want anything to do with toxic people. To me he is toxic. I will not get between him and his daughters but I will be there for them if and when they need me. I also will not send anything to any of them until they are on their own that he might consider "whatever" he considered the book.



Thank you for all the responses. No you cannot change my mind about him because I do know his true colors. I will just make sure I don't get my niece into trouble with him by sending her anything that is too adult or deemed inappropriate by him.
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