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This sounds similar to the story of my father in law and his four children from his first marriage. My DH is the only child of the second wife.
The 3 boys finally started speaking to and spending time with their father in their late 30's and 40's. The daughter never stopped communicating with him. So there is still hope. As somebody else said, these wounds created in childhood take a long time to heal.
I can understand my in-laws' point of view of the bad, bad divorce and "evil" ex-wife, but I can also understand how the boys felt. My guess is they didn't feel their father fought hard enough for them. I think he too, "after a long while...finally gave up" on trying to communicate with them. If your husband is so upset by this, I would advise him to not give up, to keep sending cards, attempting phone calls. Perseverance does more to heal familial breaches than complaining about the other person(s) not meeting you half way.
Here is what I will say from a personal level. There is a similar situation in my family wherein a father's 2 adult children chose to cease contact with him after their parent's divorce. They had VERY valid reasons to do so. However, the woman he got involved with for 20+ years has a similar point of view as the original poster. Of course she wasn't there when he was raising his children so she is relying on his version of events which obviously are a bit biased. Bottom line is he remembers things much differently then how they unfolded but in this woman's mind his kids are a bunch of brats who are unreasonably taking their clingy mother's side in the divorce & he was also deprived from knowing his grandchildren (& of course the grandchildren were deprived of their relationship with him). But she is wrong & since she was not there she will never accept that I guess. He is dead now so it is irrelevant but ironically enough his adult children STILL don't regret the estrangement. My advice - Just be a supportive/sympathetic wife to your husband & don't egg him on when it comes to re-establishing contact. His kids have drawn boundary lines for a reason & they need to be respected.
Here is what I will say from a personal level. There is a similar situation in my family wherein a father's 2 adult children chose to cease contact with him after their parent's divorce. They had VERY valid reasons to do so. However, the woman he got involved with for 20+ years has a similar point of view as the original poster. Of course she wasn't there when he was raising his children so she is relying on his version of events which obviously are a bit biased. Bottom line is he remembers things much differently then how they unfolded but in this woman's mind his kids are a bunch of brats who are unreasonably taking their clingy mother's side in the divorce & he was also deprived from knowing his grandchildren (& of course the grandchildren were deprived of their relationship with him). But she is wrong & since she was not there she will never accept that I guess. He is dead now so it is irrelevant but ironically enough his adult children STILL don't regret the estrangement. My advice - Just be a supportive/sympathetic wife to your husband & don't egg him on when it comes to re-establishing contact. His kids have drawn boundary lines for a reason & they need to be respected.
Thanks for your opinion and I will heed your advise with one exception. I don't consider any of the boys brats. Quite the opposite in fact. That is why I really don't comprehend their ability to hear and feel only their mother's version. Either remain neutral, which is the correct approach, or give both parents the respect and understanding they deserve.
I do not egg my husband on this matter but the subject painfully comes up often. I would like to see these issues resolved beore it's too late. Knowing the sons as I do, they will be the ones with the regrets.
My husband has no knowledge that I'm posting here.
I was just trying to get an opinion from someone with a similar situation. I would do anything to help my husband through this but wanted a general opinion about my role. I will continue to support him without interference. I do know that when he first left, he called every day to talk to the sons and they were not given the messages. After a long while he finally gave up. He was never a deadbeat dad, or husband for that matter, and was extremely proactive in their upbringing. The youngest suffered the most, I'm sure of that but the mother kept him isolated from the truth. That is putting it as nicely as I can.
With all due respect, you say " I do know that when he first left, he called every day to talk to the sons and they were not given the messages. After a long while he finally gave up. "
Phone calls are one thing but what about the court appointed visitation?????
I'm glad that I could be helpful with my advise...however depending upon the circumstances the position in bold that you wrote may not necessarily be the correct approach. They are adults & they have the right to cut him off if they feel there is reason. Chances are you really don't know all that has caused this. This scenario is just far more likely from what I have observed in reality and parents generally just don't admit, realize or remember things accurately (perhaps it is too painful?)
When your husband brings it up be sympathetic to what he misses & help him enjoy the grandchildren he does see. Perhaps he could get counseling to help him find personal closure within himself regarding these severed relationships so that he can psychologically move on...A really good counselor might even help him to identify what things may have caused the estrangement so that he can move on. So counseling would be my other suggestion so that he can properly grieve the relationships he lost & move on with this life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by from PA
Thanks for your opinion and I will heed your advise with one exception. I don't consider any of the boys brats. Quite the opposite in fact. That is why I really don't comprehend their ability to hear and feel only their mother's version. Either remain neutral, which is the correct approach, or give both parents the respect and understanding they deserve.
I do not egg my husband on this matter but the subject painfully comes up often. I would like to see these issues resolved beore it's too late. Knowing the sons as I do, they will be the ones with the regrets.
That is why I really don't comprehend their ability to hear and feel only their mother's version. Either remain neutral, which is the correct approach, or give both parents the respect and understanding they deserve.
I do not egg my husband on this matter but the subject painfully comes up often. I would like to see these issues resolved beore it's too late. Knowing the sons as I do, they will be the ones with the regrets.
The "correct" approach? It's pretty hard to be logical when it comes to affairs of the heart. Obviously they do NOT feel that both parents deserve "respect and understanding." I'm not saying they're right, none of us know what really happened, but I don't see them having a change of heart without somebody else - their father - being the one to take steps to heal the breach. If they are too angry with him still, then maybe it's going to take another year. Or maybe they'll never get over it, who knows?
My f-i-l's ex-wife had her teenage boys serve papers on their dad all the time during court ordered visitations. She told them their Dad didn't love them and had abandoned them. This was in the 70's. All the kids and their dad weren't in the same room together for years and years until my wedding in the early 2000's. Then the next year my sis-in-law got married and I got to meet the evil ex at the wedding. She said horrible things (with a smile) and her boyfriend's son asked me "Didn't your f-i-l abandon his daughter? It's surprising she still wants him at her wedding." It was hard to swallow that with a smile of my own, but I was NOT going to make a scene at my lovely s-i-l's wedding. And I don't blame her and her brothers for their loyalty to her, because I know how powerful the connection with your mother is. I am just grateful that enough healing has happened in the family that we can spend holidays together now.
My guess is they didn't feel their father fought hard enough for them. I think he too, "after a long while...finally gave up" on trying to communicate with them.
I think this is how my step-brothers feel regarding their father-my stepfather. His eldest son refuses to talk to him. The middle one runs hot and cold and will occassionally reconnect with him. His youngest son breaks my heart. I can tell he wants to have a good relationship with his dad, but is torn about "hurting" his mom and wavering from his older brothers' positions (they're all adults now). But looking back, I think this is a pretty common feeling for kids of divorced who have a custodial parent bad mouthing the other and hindering that relationship. It doesn't matter if your husband's sons are grown and "should know better", that's a wound that just does not heal well.
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Originally Posted by RAZZEL
Phone calls are one thing but what about the court appointed visitation?????
Court appointed visitation only goes so far when the mom is standing at the door refusing to let the father take his children on the day he's supposed to get them. I was in the car plenty of times when my step-father's ex did this to him. In their eyes, I can totally understand how they would think he didn't fight for them, but from his eyes I can see where he thought it better for his sons to not keep dragging their mother to court or calling the police on her when he wouldn't let him take them. In a way, he accepted being the "bad guy" in an effort not to make their mother be the bad guy.
But looking back, I think this is a pretty common feeling for kids of divorced who have a custodial parent bad mouthing the other and hindering that relationship. It doesn't matter if your husband's sons are grown and "should know better", that's a wound that just does not heal well.
Very well said.
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Originally Posted by regarese
Court appointed visitation only goes so far when the mom is standing at the door refusing to let the father take his children on the day he's supposed to get them. I was in the car plenty of times when my step-father's ex did this to him. In their eyes, I can totally understand how they would think he didn't fight for them, but from his eyes I can see where he thought it better for his sons to not keep dragging their mother to court or calling the police on her when he wouldn't let him take them. In a way, he accepted being the "bad guy" in an effort not to make their mother be the bad guy.
You're right, apparently this story is all too common.
This could almost describe my family's situation.
I can see something similar happening in the future regarding my ex husband and our two daughters.
Basically, it was/is HIS responsibility to communicate with his children and he failed miserably......from not calling to not even taking them for his time with them. He never ever took them for a full weekend, usually less than 24 hours total and that was only after our divorce was finalized. That only lasted for a few months, along with his paying child support to them. If he took them to see his family they stayed no more than 2 hours and this happened maybe 2 times a year and they only live 20 minutes away! He didn't bother to call them on their birthdays much less send them even a card. He only attended one of their high school graduations and with that one never contacted her, we only knew he was there because his parents told us he had been!
I never disparaged him in front of our girls, never was bitter because I was actually so relieved for him to be gone when he left us! They were 11 and 15 at the time and it didn't take long for them to realize his shortcomings all on their own.
So.....10 years later, they don't care what he has to say. He left them when he left me. He didn't communicate with them and didn't stay involved in their lives. They became bitter towards him because of how he treated THEM and he earned that status all by himself.
My second daughter graduates from college this spring and he isn't being invited. My oldest didn't invite him to her college graduation either. They both say, why bother? He doesn't care about me daily, why should he be a part of my big day?
I imagine that if either marries in the next few years he might not be included there...all because of his actions over the last 10 years.
The only way that will change is if HE makes an effort to become part of their life in a serious, interested, truly caring way before then.
He currently lives with a gal who has actually said to my girls...'you could call us you know, we're in the phone book and only live about 10 minutes away'. As if it's 'their' responsibility as the children to do the calling. Nope. That's not how it works.
With all due respect, you say " I do know that when he first left, he called every day to talk to the sons and they were not given the messages. After a long while he finally gave up. "
Phone calls are one thing but what about the court appointed visitation?????
There was no court involvement in visitation. The youngest was 15 at the time and the older ones were already out of high school.
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