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Old 04-01-2018, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Northern California
227 posts, read 62,012 times
Reputation: 322

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OttoR View Post
A 4 year old is not a “toddler”, the playground was 120 ft from the front door, and they live in a gated community.
Yes hence my comment the playground was ADJACENT their home. Very important whether a gated community or not. And yes, a 4 year old is a toddler

Quote:
The child wasn’t dropped off at a sketchy city park while the mom had her nails done. And she is spot on, 50 years ago, or even 30 years ago, this would have been a non-issue (like an adult taking away a cell phone for misuse).
Taking away a cell phone by a parent for misuse IS NOT akin to what this parent did. A four year old doesn't even generally have a cell phone, that is for older children. If at all.

There was no visual access to watch the child and yes, 4yrs old is way to young to be left at an adjacent playground. Or left unmonitored in their back yard. A warning might have been better for this family but generally, most people don't leave a child alone, that young, anywhere where they are not visually monitored. Doesn't mean they necessarily need to be arrested though
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Old 04-01-2018, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Northern California
227 posts, read 62,012 times
Reputation: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird View Post
I met a woman who had the police and then social services called on her because she left her 12 year old in a coffee shop (small safe city) so she could take her other child to a 1 hour appointment next door. She only gave the child enough money for a small hot chocolate because of food issues the child had (binge eating - trauma related).

A man also in there thought the girl was much younger (she does seem small for her age but not tiny and was reading a large novel) and she was asking for someone's left overs and said she didn't have any money. She also didn't have a phone because of misuse.

I see how someone could jump to conclusions but perhaps they could have talked to the girl and/or the staff who saw her there weekly and knew where her mom was (and told her mom she could use their phone to call her if she needed to). But they didn't.

You would think social services would have cleared it quickly, but they insisted on talking to everyone involved, the therapists etc she saw, and really humiliated the family and made them terrified they could lose custody. Maybe social services took it more seriously because they were foster parents as well?

Anyways, months later after the social worker "counseled" them, they closed the case. But it was "founded" and now I know the family is very afraid of any calls on them.

I live in the same community and let my 12 year old do all sorts of things on his own (stay home for short periods, hang out at the library, walk to the store a mile away). Just got my fingers crossed some overly paranoid person doesn't cause problems.

Man when I was 12, I swear, all I had to do was be home for meals (if I wanted to eat them) and be home by curfew, which was 9pm or later. I rode the bus all over, I went to friend's houses and hung out, I went to movies, stores, coffee shops, McDonalds, walked miles some days. All my friends did too. There wasn't a second thought. Parents who didn't let their kids roam were the ones who were thought of as weird. And I am not *that old* LOL
As former foster parents, I am sure they took it more seriously. We are not allowed to just leave a child with these kind of issues alone in a restaurant, even if we are next door. Clearly she behaves inappropriately so there is more reason not to "push it"

We had other foster parents available to babysit if needed but I cannot vouch that is the norm.

It is certainly not something I'd think, with their training. most foster parents would do.

I honestly do not find this as weird at all for a natural parent. But foster parents are trained and held to the standard they are trained at.

Kids at 12 run around all over the place. It's too bad people don't find out more about the situation before reporting it. They are right there, don't bother CPS with these frivilous calls.

Last edited by ItIsWritten.; 04-01-2018 at 01:14 PM..
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Old 04-01-2018, 01:09 PM
 
562 posts, read 128,904 times
Reputation: 1433
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItIsWritten. View Post
Yes hence my comment the playground was ADJACENT their home. Very important whether a gated community or not. And yes, a 4 year old is a toddler

Taking away a cell phone by a parent for misuse IS NOT akin to what this parent did. A four year old doesn't even generally have a cell phone, that is for older children. If at all.

There was no visual access to watch the child and yes, 4yrs old is way to young to be left at an adjacent playground. Or left unmonitored in their back yard. A warning might have been better for this family but generally, most people don't leave a child alone, that young, anywhere where they are not visually monitored. Doesn't mean they necessarily need to be arrested though

A child is only a toddler until 3 years old, so no, at 4 years old, the child is not a toddler. Perhaps she could hear him. Maybe she was checking him every few minutes. Maybe she had the front door open to watch for any activity. Maybe the mother knew her childís situation and didnít need a busybody butting in and calling the police in a situation that didnít warrant it.
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Old 04-01-2018, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Northern California
227 posts, read 62,012 times
Reputation: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by OttoR View Post
A child is only a toddler until 3 years old, so no, at 4 years old, the child is not a toddler. Perhaps she could hear him. Maybe she was checking him every few minutes. Maybe she had the front door open to watch for any activity. Maybe the mother knew her child’s situation and didn’t need a busybody butting in and calling the police in a situation that didn’t warrant it.
that could very well be true.
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Old 04-01-2018, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Saint John, IN
9,437 posts, read 2,559,697 times
Reputation: 10579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegabern View Post
Because people went crazy and started passing laws about how old a child has to be to be left home alone. Perhaps just repealing those laws would be sufficient.
That is different in every state. There is no law in Indiana stating how old a child has to be in order for them to be home alone. Parents can make that decision. However, we used to live in Illinois and the law there states a child could not be left home alone under age 14.
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Old 04-01-2018, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Arkansas
3,841 posts, read 1,285,810 times
Reputation: 8251
In my state a child can be left home alone at age 10, for two hours at a time.
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Old 04-01-2018, 05:44 PM
 
4,054 posts, read 1,532,116 times
Reputation: 11783
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird View Post
I met a woman who had the police and then social services called on her because she left her 12 year old in a coffee shop (small safe city) so she could take her other child to a 1 hour appointment next door. She only gave the child enough money for a small hot chocolate because of food issues the child had (binge eating - trauma related).

A man also in there thought the girl was much younger (she does seem small for her age but not tiny and was reading a large novel) and she was asking for someone's left overs and said she didn't have any money. She also didn't have a phone because of misuse.

I see how someone could jump to conclusions but perhaps they could have talked to the girl and/or the staff who saw her there weekly and knew where her mom was (and told her mom she could use their phone to call her if she needed to). But they didn't.

You would think social services would have cleared it quickly, but they insisted on talking to everyone involved, the therapists etc she saw, and really humiliated the family and made them terrified they could lose custody. Maybe social services took it more seriously because they were foster parents as well?

Anyways, months later after the social worker "counseled" them, they closed the case. But it was "founded" and now I know the family is very afraid of any calls on them.

I live in the same community and let my 12 year old do all sorts of things on his own (stay home for short periods, hang out at the library, walk to the store a mile away). Just got my fingers crossed some overly paranoid person doesn't cause problems.

Man when I was 12, I swear, all I had to do was be home for meals (if I wanted to eat them) and be home by curfew, which was 9pm or later. I rode the bus all over, I went to friend's houses and hung out, I went to movies, stores, coffee shops, McDonalds, walked miles some days. All my friends did too. There wasn't a second thought. Parents who didn't let their kids roam were the ones who were thought of as weird. And I am not *that old* LOL
Ooh, I don't know, HighFlyingBird. I would have called social services seeing that.

A 12 year old child (and even looks younger than that) who doesn't have better social skills than to ask strangers for food in a coffee shop really shouldn't be in there alone. That is a very vulnerable child. And yes, if this child is in foster care and the foster providers did that, I would expect they would lose the child. In my opinion, that's a "founded" case of child neglect. Don't you kind of agree? You don't say whether this specific child was a ward of the state, or just a biochild of a licensed foster care provider.
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Old 04-02-2018, 06:13 AM
 
9,500 posts, read 6,629,150 times
Reputation: 16537
Let's get back to going outside and playing. I just spent the weekend working on the yard. HARD work but rewarding. Every time I went inside I wanted to say "come play outside with me!" but of course, that would mean work for them so... I was pretty much by myself, though my couch-potato dogs (both 13yrs old) enjoyed being out there with me!

Growing up I climbed trees, swam in the river, rode my bike all over creation including in the sandpit where the hills were AWESOME and the falls were never painful. We were solid little muscles and healthy as horses.

I was trying to find a recent video of a contraption where 4 kids climb on and use their weight to spin it (like a waterwheel action). It looks extremely fun and to the typical US parent, extremely dangerous. I found this picture and thought how you don't see the little fat kids hanging on the outside. No one made those kids climb out there but they are capable, fit and it's FUN!! (that's probably the most favorite dad ever)

The merry-go-round in our elementary playground was never fun until kids went flying off. Centrifugal force is a concept best learned on the playground. (Spin the Statue was a favorite where the big kids spun the little kids around then threw them. We had to land and freeze in any position we landed in. We stayed that way until all the kids were thrown. The stillest one won. )
Attached Thumbnails
New  law in Utah specifically allows "free range" parenting.-playground.jpg  
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Old 04-02-2018, 07:07 AM
 
26,815 posts, read 10,236,860 times
Reputation: 17981
"Only three States currently have laws regarding a minimum age for leaving a child home alone. Illinois law requires children to be 14 years old before being left alone; in Maryland, the minimum age is 8, while in Oregon, children must be 10 before being left home alone."

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubpdfs/homealone.pdf
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Old 04-02-2018, 08:20 AM
Status: "Springtime in the Rockies" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
82,794 posts, read 95,258,752 times
Reputation: 29376
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird View Post
I met a woman who had the police and then social services called on her because she left her 12 year old in a coffee shop (small safe city) so she could take her other child to a 1 hour appointment next door. She only gave the child enough money for a small hot chocolate because of food issues the child had (binge eating - trauma related).

A man also in there thought the girl was much younger (she does seem small for her age but not tiny and was reading a large novel) and she was asking for someone's left overs and said she didn't have any money. She also didn't have a phone because of misuse.

I see how someone could jump to conclusions but perhaps they could have talked to the girl and/or the staff who saw her there weekly and knew where her mom was (and told her mom she could use their phone to call her if she needed to). But they didn't.

You would think social services would have cleared it quickly, but they insisted on talking to everyone involved, the therapists etc she saw, and really humiliated the family and made them terrified they could lose custody. Maybe social services took it more seriously because they were foster parents as well?

Anyways, months later after the social worker "counseled" them, they closed the case. But it was "founded" and now I know the family is very afraid of any calls on them.

I live in the same community and let my 12 year old do all sorts of things on his own (stay home for short periods, hang out at the library, walk to the store a mile away). Just got my fingers crossed some overly paranoid person doesn't cause problems.

Man when I was 12, I swear, all I had to do was be home for meals (if I wanted to eat them) and be home by curfew, which was 9pm or later. I rode the bus all over, I went to friend's houses and hung out, I went to movies, stores, coffee shops, McDonalds, walked miles some days. All my friends did too. There wasn't a second thought. Parents who didn't let their kids roam were the ones who were thought of as weird. And I am not *that old* LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItIsWritten. View Post
As former foster parents, I am sure they took it more seriously. We are not allowed to just leave a child with these kind of issues alone in a restaurant, even if we are next door. Clearly she behaves inappropriately so there is more reason not to "push it"

We had other foster parents available to babysit if needed but I cannot vouch that is the norm.

It is certainly not something I'd think, with their training. most foster parents would do.

I honestly do not find this as weird at all for a natural parent. But foster parents are trained and held to the standard they are trained at.

Kids at 12 run around all over the place. It's too bad people don't find out more about the situation before reporting it. They are right there, don't bother CPS with these frivilous calls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
Ooh, I don't know, HighFlyingBird. I would have called social services seeing that.

A 12 year old child (and even looks younger than that) who doesn't have better social skills than to ask strangers for food in a coffee shop really shouldn't be in there alone. That is a very vulnerable child. And yes, if this child is in foster care and the foster providers did that, I would expect they would lose the child. In my opinion, that's a "founded" case of child neglect. Don't you kind of agree? You don't say whether this specific child was a ward of the state, or just a biochild of a licensed foster care provider.
I don't think I would have called SS, but I do think that was some poor decision-making on the part of the parents/guardians. Maybe they (the adults) didn't know what went on in the coffee shop b/c the staff was too polite to tell them this kid was begging for food, saying she didn't have money, etc. I don't understand why the child couldn't have come along to the appt and read her large novel in the waiting room.
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