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Old 04-02-2018, 08:50 AM
 
7,834 posts, read 11,094,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
I agree. It's a hornet's nest.

Things should be illegal or legal, and it should never be a case of well, go ahead and do it and we'll decide later whether to charge you with a crime.

It shouldn't be "open ended so police and prosecutors can work on a case by case basis".

In order to be charged with a crime, the behavior has to be listed as a crime somewhere on the lawbooks.
???
I get it and if properly applied it works. Nothing more frustrating that seeing some sort of egregious abuse (whether its proprty, animals or people) and there being no law on the books to stop it. But that doesn't mean that the law can't be applied judiciously.
This happens a lot with chained dogs. For example. Chained dog with no water no food no shelter? Lots of places have no laws against chained dogs and often no shelter requirements. You can call the police and animal control all day and there isn't anything they can do about it. Some places do have a chain law, typically not enforced strictly. If the dogs shelter is good, they have food, water and are let in at night and the dog is actually cared for, its just chained while at work etc. ....they often get a pass even if some liberal animal lover like myself complains because I hate a dog on any chain. There are usually so many other dogs in more dire straits to worry about...............

A lot of people who hate govt would hopefully have fewer problems with a law they dont even know about if they aren't actively breaking it. Otherwise laws would be pages and pages and pages of if this not that.

It does allow for frustration if interpreted incorrectly in different communities. This becomes a problem that can hopefully be voted out if its a sherriff or judge that is elected. Unfortunately no system is perfect.
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Old 04-02-2018, 08:52 AM
 
7,834 posts, read 11,094,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItIsWritten. View Post

There was no visual access to watch the child and yes, 4yrs old is way to young to be left at an adjacent playground. Or left unmonitored in their back yard. A warning might have been better for this family but generally, most people don't leave a child alone, that young, anywhere where they are not visually monitored. Doesn't mean they necessarily need to be arrested though
Hmm, I seem to remember being able to go outside in my yard as soon as I could open the door by myself. Someone probably looked out the window now and then I have no problems with that depending on neighborhood and fencing.
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Old 04-02-2018, 09:29 AM
 
10,090 posts, read 6,440,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItIsWritten. View Post
As former foster parents, I am sure they took it more seriously. We are not allowed to just leave a child with these kind of issues alone in a restaurant, even if we are next door. Clearly she behaves inappropriately so there is more reason not to "push it"

We had other foster parents available to babysit if needed but I cannot vouch that is the norm.

It is certainly not something I'd think, with their training. most foster parents would do.

I honestly do not find this as weird at all for a natural parent. But foster parents are trained and held to the standard they are trained at.

Kids at 12 run around all over the place. It's too bad people don't find out more about the situation before reporting it. They are right there, don't bother CPS with these frivilous calls.
The child they left there (seriously right next door) wasn't a foster kid, though. They were with the foster kid. But it is what social services said, that because the girl has "issues" she shouldn't be left alone. The therapist encouraged this arrangement so the girl could start learning more independence and earn some trust back. I think it just sucks it happened to the family.
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Old 04-02-2018, 10:19 AM
Status: "Autumn!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,788 posts, read 98,475,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giesela View Post
Hmm, I seem to remember being able to go outside in my yard as soon as I could open the door by myself. Someone probably looked out the window now and then I have no problems with that depending on neighborhood and fencing.
Which probably means you were at least three. Yes, I don't have a problem with a three year old playing outside in their own fenced yard. I doubt your parents/guardians were quite as blase as you think, though.
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Old 04-02-2018, 10:21 AM
Status: "Autumn!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,788 posts, read 98,475,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird View Post
The child they left there (seriously right next door) wasn't a foster kid, though. They were with the foster kid. But it is what social services said, that because the girl has "issues" she shouldn't be left alone. The therapist encouraged this arrangement so the girl could start learning more independence and earn some trust back. I think it just sucks it happened to the family.
Does the therapist know this child? Whose therapist was s/he? Sounds to me like s/he was the therapist for the other child in this situation, not the girl in the coffee shop. And I agree with SS in this case.
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Old 04-02-2018, 11:07 AM
 
371 posts, read 154,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giesela View Post
Hmm, I seem to remember being able to go outside in my yard as soon as I could open the door by myself. Someone probably looked out the window now and then I have no problems with that depending on neighborhood and fencing.
I agree with these statements so not sure of your reubuttal to me

A 4 yr old needs to be constantly monitored. Sure, you need to use the restroom and such but the majority of the time needs to be spent monitoring the child. Four years old is too young.

Last edited by ItIsWritten.; 04-02-2018 at 11:15 AM..
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Old 04-02-2018, 11:14 AM
 
371 posts, read 154,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird View Post
The child they left there (seriously right next door) wasn't a foster kid, though. They were with the foster kid. But it is what social services said, that because the girl has "issues" she shouldn't be left alone. The therapist encouraged this arrangement so the girl could start learning more independence and earn some trust back. I think it just sucks it happened to the family.
Thank you. I agree with you.
Yes think about it. You're in a restaurant and you see this kid, who looks young, asking for money for food. I would ask the waitress about that child. I would pay for a small something for that child to find out what is happening.

It can be a detriment to be too quick to call Social Services. And vice versa.

We have another thread where a guys girlfriend goes on a family trip with the family. Boyfriend tells 12 yr old daughter not to text, she still does it under a blanket. His girlfriend orders her to stop (why she interjected herself I have no clue) then...goes over and physically overpowers her to steal her property (phone). This is more in line with what you would phone social services for than some girl asking for food at a restaurant who looks younger than 12. No one attacks a child that doesn't belong to them then starts a thread calling the victim "atrocious". It's this exact mindset which is dangerous. She's already gotten physically violent, it will only escalate. All while the father says her daughter "doesnt have much behavior issues" So Dad wasn't too concerned. I wonder what Grandpa thought.

What is sad is the majority of posters defending this low life girlfriend. My guess is many have dysfunctional broken homes themselves so respect isn't something they learned or it would be more likely, they'd still be a family unit. This is just the result of the death of a family.

the poor mother making an unwise decision to leave her 12 yr old daughter at a restaurant knowing she has some unhealthy behavior issues (asking for food) for a short period of time isn't anything to be too concerned over. Personally I think the issue is they were foster parents as well. Especially if they were experienced. Meaning this was something they felt was unwise and they shouldve know better due to their training. Even if it is their own bio child, it's a child with huge issues, clearly. Not justifying it at all.

Last edited by ItIsWritten.; 04-02-2018 at 11:26 AM..
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Old 04-02-2018, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
9,809 posts, read 7,937,076 times
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In the good cases, these laws don't need to be enforced. In the bad cases, they are probably worth it, although I doubt if they have much of a deterrant effect.
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Old 04-02-2018, 12:02 PM
Status: "Autumn!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,788 posts, read 98,475,755 times
Reputation: 31204
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItIsWritten. View Post
Thank you. I agree with you.
Yes think about it. You're in a restaurant and you see this kid, who looks young, asking for money for food. I would ask the waitress about that child. I would pay for a small something for that child to find out what is happening.

It can be a detriment to be too quick to call Social Services. And vice versa.

We have another thread where a guys girlfriend goes on a family trip with the family. Boyfriend tells 12 yr old daughter not to text, she still does it under a blanket. His girlfriend orders her to stop (why she interjected herself I have no clue) then...goes over and physically overpowers her to steal her property (phone). This is more in line with what you would phone social services for than some girl asking for food at a restaurant who looks younger than 12. No one attacks a child that doesn't belong to them then starts a thread calling the victim "atrocious". It's this exact mindset which is dangerous. She's already gotten physically violent, it will only escalate. All while the father says her daughter "doesnt have much behavior issues" So Dad wasn't too concerned. I wonder what Grandpa thought.

What is sad is the majority of posters defending this low life girlfriend. My guess is many have dysfunctional broken homes themselves so respect isn't something they learned or it would be more likely, they'd still be a family unit. This is just the result of the death of a family.

the poor mother making an unwise decision to leave her 12 yr old daughter at a restaurant knowing she has some unhealthy behavior issues (asking for food) for a short period of time isn't anything to be too concerned over. Personally I think the issue is they were foster parents as well. Especially if they were experienced. Meaning this was something they felt was unwise and they shouldve know better due to their training. Even if it is their own bio child, it's a child with huge issues, clearly. Not justifying it at all.
The girl left in the coffee shop who was telling customers she had no money and was begging for food was the legal child of the people who left her, presumably but not necessarily the biological parents. She only had enough money for a small cocoa due to "issues" with binge-eating. It was a therapist, not sure whose, who suggested leaving the child in the coffee shop while her parents were at a therapy appointment next door with their foster child. The girl didn't have a cell phone because of misuse. Sounds like the therapist made a poor judgement call.

The place to discuss the other issue is on that thread, not this one.
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Old 04-02-2018, 12:13 PM
 
10,090 posts, read 6,440,840 times
Reputation: 23706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Does the therapist know this child? Whose therapist was s/he? Sounds to me like s/he was the therapist for the other child in this situation, not the girl in the coffee shop. And I agree with SS in this case.
Yes, her therapist was in charge of the idea. I knew the girl. She wasn't wild or unpredictable. She did have some boundary issues and some other issues. But she had to practice and learn how to be on her own for short periods. And if her therapist and parents thought it was a good idea, I trust them. But then again I knew them (even the therapist). So I think I have a pretty good understanding of the situation and how it went wrong with social services.
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