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Yes, her therapist was in charge of the idea. I knew the girl. She wasn't wild or unpredictable. She did have some boundary issues and some other issues. But she had to practice and learn how to be on her own for short periods. And if her therapist and parents thought it was a good idea, I trust them. But then again I knew them (even the therapist). So I think I have a pretty good understanding of the situation and how it went wrong with social services.
A therapist who suggests leaving a 12 year old alone in a coffee shop with no adult supervision when the child is known to have binge-eating issues and no cell phone due to misuse of same is making a poor judgement call. I don't have to know any of the people involved to say that.
Thank you. I agree with you.
Yes think about it. You're in a restaurant and you see this kid, who looks young, asking for money for food. I would ask the waitress about that child. I would pay for a small something for that child to find out what is happening.
It can be a detriment to be too quick to call Social Services. And vice versa.
We have another thread where a guys girlfriend goes on a family trip with the family. Boyfriend tells 12 yr old daughter not to text, she still does it under a blanket. His girlfriend orders her to stop (why she interjected herself I have no clue) then...goes over and physically overpowers her to steal her property (phone). This is more in line with what you would phone social services for than some girl asking for food at a restaurant who looks younger than 12. No one attacks a child that doesn't belong to them then starts a thread calling the victim "atrocious". It's this exact mindset which is dangerous. She's already gotten physically violent, it will only escalate. All while the father says her daughter "doesnt have much behavior issues" So Dad wasn't too concerned. I wonder what Grandpa thought.
What is sad is the majority of posters defending this low life girlfriend. My guess is many have dysfunctional broken homes themselves so respect isn't something they learned or it would be more likely, they'd still be a family unit. This is just the result of the death of a family.
the poor mother making an unwise decision to leave her 12 yr old daughter at a restaurant knowing she has some unhealthy behavior issues (asking for food) for a short period of time isn't anything to be too concerned over. Personally I think the issue is they were foster parents as well. Especially if they were experienced. Meaning this was something they felt was unwise and they shouldve know better due to their training. Even if it is their own bio child, it's a child with huge issues, clearly. Not justifying it at all.
They had done it several times before and had never heard that the daughter was asking for food. I mean, its a little odd, but I don't know if she was asking a stranger or someone she knew. But that wasn't common for her to do. 12 year olds aren't perfect adults. They do strange things sometimes. They need to learn. Just because this girl has some challenges doesn't mean they should lock her up and never allow her out of sight. Slowly and carefully the therapist and parents make her world bigger and look for teaching moments. This is what was happening.
No where in the incident with my friend was the child in danger. If so, that would be different. But there was no danger. Danger comes when we haven't taught our kids how to navigate the world around them and overly shelter them...usually in fear of having social services called.
The phone is only an issue because the social worker said she had to have a phone when she was on her own...although that isn't a law and the girl (like many 12 year olds) misuses her phone.
A therapist who suggests leaving a 12 year old alone in a coffee shop with no adult supervision when the child is known to have binge-eating issues and no cell phone due to misuse of same is making a poor judgement call. I don't have to know any of the people involved to say that.
I think you could put asking people for food and lying about having no money to buy any in that category.
Asking for people's food is unusual. A teaching moment, for sure. She didn't lie about having no more money. She didn't have any more after she bought her hot chocolate.
I will save my breath. I am tired of trying to explain adoption, trauma, therapy, issues, attachment, etc with people who just don't get it.
Asking for people's food is unusual. A teaching moment, for sure. She didn't lie about having no more money. She didn't have any more after she bought her hot chocolate.
I will save my breath. I am tired of trying to explain adoption, trauma, therapy, issues, attachment, etc with people who just don't get it.
Yes, I'm just a dullard. Not worth your time. I'm not sure when you tried to educate me in all those issues, though.
They had done it several times before and had never heard that the daughter was asking for food. I mean, its a little odd, but I don't know if she was asking a stranger or someone she knew. But that wasn't common for her to do. 12 year olds aren't perfect adults. They do strange things sometimes. They need to learn. Just because this girl has some challenges doesn't mean they should lock her up and never allow her out of sight. Slowly and carefully the therapist and parents make her world bigger and look for teaching moments. This is what was happening.
No where in the incident with my friend was the child in danger. If so, that would be different. But there was no danger. Danger comes when we haven't taught our kids how to navigate the world around them and overly shelter them...usually in fear of having social services called.
The phone is only an issue because the social worker said she had to have a phone when she was on her own...although that isn't a law and the girl (like many 12 year olds) misuses her phone.
I wish the law was written more clearly and then enacted in every state. It's too easy to have unequal enforcement. It should be a clear law so that when some busy body calls about a 9 year old walking home from the school bus alone the police can say "So what?". My son's school goes up to 4th grade and they will not let anyone off the school bus unless a parent or someone over the age of 16 is there to pick them up. The school bus is one short block from my house and he will never be able to get off and walk home alone. He's only in 1st now so I can't say I know for sure what he'll be like in 4th grade, but I feel like kids that age should be able to walk a block alone. If, for some reason, they can't or the parents don't want them to I wouldn't judge. But it should be allowed. I have no doubt that if anyone dropped their child at the bus and let them wait alone for 5 minutes in the morning at any time up until 4th grade the lunatic women at the bus stop would call the police. They all, of course, drive their children the 1/2-1 block to the stop and keep them in the car until the bus arrives.
I wish the law was written more clearly and then enacted in every state. It's too easy to have unequal enforcement. It should be a clear law so that when some busy body calls about a 9 year old walking home from the school bus alone the police can say "So what?". My son's school goes up to 4th grade and they will not let anyone off the school bus unless a parent or someone over the age of 16 is there to pick them up. The school bus is one short block from my house and he will never be able to get off and walk home alone. He's only in 1st now so I can't say I know for sure what he'll be like in 4th grade, but I feel like kids that age should be able to walk a block alone. If, for some reason, they can't or the parents don't want them to I wouldn't judge. But it should be allowed. I have no doubt that if anyone dropped their child at the bus and let them wait alone for 5 minutes in the morning at any time up until 4th grade the lunatic women at the bus stop would call the police. They all, of course, drive their children the 1/2-1 block to the stop and keep them in the car until the bus arrives.
I agree with these statements so not sure of your reubuttal to me
A 4 yr old needs to be constantly monitored. Sure, you need to use the restroom and such but the majority of the time needs to be spent monitoring the child. Four years old is too young.
Four years old is not too young to play outside, imo. I grew up riding my tricycle around my neighborhood at 3. It was a quiet neighborhood with not much traffic and I was taught to stay on the sidewalk. My mom would check on me occasionally, but not every few minutes. By 4, I was allowed to knock on my neighbors door to see if the kids could come out and play.
A four year old should NOT need constant monitoring.
We also played in our backyards at 2. Mom watched out the kitchen window, but she did not have to watch every second.
I wish the law was written more clearly and then enacted in every state. It's too easy to have unequal enforcement. It should be a clear law so that when some busy body calls about a 9 year old walking home from the school bus alone the police can say "So what?". My son's school goes up to 4th grade and they will not let anyone off the school bus unless a parent or someone over the age of 16 is there to pick them up. The school bus is one short block from my house and he will never be able to get off and walk home alone. He's only in 1st now so I can't say I know for sure what he'll be like in 4th grade, but I feel like kids that age should be able to walk a block alone. If, for some reason, they can't or the parents don't want them to I wouldn't judge. But it should be allowed. I have no doubt that if anyone dropped their child at the bus and let them wait alone for 5 minutes in the morning at any time up until 4th grade the lunatic women at the bus stop would call the police. They all, of course, drive their children the 1/2-1 block to the stop and keep them in the car until the bus arrives.
These issues are left up to the states, per the US constitution.
4th graders are usually a max of 10 years old. The law you state is not unreasonable. There are always some circumstances like yours that make a law seem silly, but overall, I don't see a problem with expecting kids 10 and under to be accompanied.
Four years old is not too young to play outside, imo. I grew up riding my tricycle around my neighborhood at 3. It was a quiet neighborhood with not much traffic and I was taught to stay on the sidewalk. My mom would check on me occasionally, but not every few minutes. By 4, I was allowed to knock on my neighbors door to see if the kids could come out and play.
A four year old should NOT need constant monitoring.
We also played in our backyards at 2. Mom watched out the kitchen window, but she did not have to watch every second.
Fewer people had cars back when we were young. (I am about your age.)
When I was three years old, we lived within about a block of a steel mill, with semi-trucks going up and down the street our house was on to/from the mill all day, plus people driving to/from work for 3 shifts a day. My parents would not even buy us kids bikes when we lived there, thinking it was too dangerous. I was 7 when we moved away, don't know how that would have played out had we lived there longer.
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