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Old 04-13-2018, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Dfw
324 posts, read 77,708 times
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I agree. They should've said, we don't use that word or say that in class..not make him apologize. Weird..
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:15 AM
Status: "Summer's here!" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
83,568 posts, read 96,644,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus View Post
And you should certainly pull _those_ people up on it. I am not doing that however. What I am doing is pointing out that _this_ counsellor got one of the absolute basics wrong.

Jumping on them for every little thing is a bad approach. But you expect the 101 textbook stuff to be there - especially in a situation where there was no immediate or huge pressure on.

I share your concerns and sympathies for the quantity of complaints these people get - most of it unfounded and unwarranted. But there has to be a line somewhere.



Exactly. We teach them. And we do not teach them by demanding they say sorry. And any counsellor past the 101 training will know that. The _correct_ approach is to sit a child down - explain the issue and the problem and what they did wrong and why. You then ask a child "So now that you have learned all that - what would you like to say now?" and if you did the job well the kid _on their own initiative_ will then say "Sorry".

Marching a kid out of a class room - hearing a description of what they did - and then simply marching them back in under the demand they say "sorry" however is both poor form by the counsellor - and a missed opportunity to do exactly what you say here. To teach them.

I fear too many people see such situations as something to be dealt with - rather than as an opportunity.
You know this how? What is your background to say this?
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Old 04-16-2018, 01:15 AM
 
3,244 posts, read 2,406,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
You know this how? What is your background to say this?
Amy McCready is the Founder of Positive Parenting Solutions wrote some books on the topic you might be interested in however as it covers the methodologies on how to teach children to say - and be - sorry.

An article here also on the topic of teaching kids when and why to say sorry other than just telling them to do it. As I suggested it recommends we "Use Bad Behavior as a Teachable Moment" and an opportunity rather than simply forcing a sorry and pretending the situation is magically resolved. The positive Parenting Connection also agree with this, talking about how insisting on apologies in unnecessary when children are wired for empathy in the first place as they tell us "Feelings of remorse and a genuine willingness to make amends is much more than just repeating words. In fact, insisting on an apology can take away from the real experience of remorse." and as I said myself in the post you are querying they recommend one stage where we "Activate Empathy".

This article here ramifies that as it tells us "Experts explain what's important is not simply saying the words but learning to take responsibility for a mistake.". Because if you do not do that as Dr. Sears tells us "Some children learn to parrot an “excuse me” or “I’m sorry” within a millisecond of the offense to avoid being “squealed on” or to get themselves off the hook quickly if parents force apologies.". Another author of books on Child Development
Kara Carrero goes on in another article to tell how "sorry became a band-aid word for any and all situations." which is clearly not what it is for.

Forced apologies are inauthentic and meaningless. A child is unlikely to learn what they are actually apologising for if they are merely ordered to do it. You are more likely to teach a child to offer apologies with no contrition by that method - and as such teach and reinforce the idea that apologies are empty and meaningless gestures we are simply expected to do in the social order.

Rather the ideal to work towards is one where you take a given chance to teach the child about any wrong doing they have done (not that the child in the OP here seems to have particularly done any) and when _they_ apologise out of their own choice and contrition you will see it is both more meaningful and you will see you reached them and actually showed them what it was they did wrong.

I trust that answers your question.
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Old 04-16-2018, 02:17 AM
 
33 posts, read 13,037 times
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COSCHRISTI:
You are spot on with where i am coming from and the BS i have to deal with.*

Another example:
In Kindergarten, he said the "N" word.* I never taght him that!* But guess who they tried to pin it on: "Me!" Come to find out he learned it from his older half brother at his mom's.*

And one more example:*
My son got in trouble for pushing a boy away who was trying to kiss him!* The teacher said the other boy just missed him.* That was BS because it was after a normal weekend! It seems as though they want me to be teaching him violence because he lives with me!*
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Old 04-16-2018, 04:51 AM
 
913 posts, read 113,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aboom
He's not upset and I'm not upset, I just think that was a weird way to handle it, having him to say "i'm sorry" when he didn't even know what it meant.
It does sound like yuor upset which is OK... The way they handle stuff now in schools IS RIDICULOUS compared to when we were in school!

In my opinion no apology was needed...Like you said he didnt know what it meant so why tell him it as something bad? -- Just tell him its not good talking about it...........


I dunno.........
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:35 AM
 
2,334 posts, read 930,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bambo View Post
It does sound like yuor upset which is OK... The way they handle stuff now in schools IS RIDICULOUS compared to when we were in school!

In my opinion no apology was needed...Like you said he didnt know what it meant so why tell him it as something bad? -- Just tell him its not good talking about it...........


I dunno.........
He was the one who said it meant sex? How is the teacher to know how he came to that conclusion? It was the other kid who had no clue that it had that connotation (nor did I, before I read this thread). I donít know what else the school should have done in this situation. We only heard this story from the dadís side, not the other childís side. I imagine that child was humiliated and just thought it was a silly joke and was suddenly accused of doing something sexual.

As to quoting parenting articles here, this is not a parenting situation. This is a school situation... it is not the same environment. A parent has one, two, three, four kids. A teacher usually has twenty or even more kids in a class at the same time.
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Old 04-19-2018, 12:30 AM
 
33 posts, read 13,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger34 View Post
I agree. They should've said, we don't use that word or say that in class..not make him apologize. Weird..
It gets more weird...since he volunteered what the "bunny ears" meant,
He has come home with 2 notes saying his behavior "needs improvement" with no details. Using the class app, i message the teacher and several days later i get a response but she does not answer my question about "what exactly do we need to address here?"

Concerned as to "whats going on here," i decided to message the principle since i want to be proactive in correcting the problem "needing improvement." She messaged me back saying she would check with the teacher and get back with me. That was 2 days ago. I feel uncomfortable about this and i do not know how to proceed. Preferably, i would like to do nothing because of concern for what they can do. I've been thrown under the bus before and the school got away with it.

I have never instigated issues or whined, or whatever you might want to call it. I am all for him getting corrected properly. I just want my son to stop being the scapegoat. It seems that because of me he has been targeted. I hope that is not the case, but these experiences are adding up and i just cannot pin it down to anything else at this point.

The good thing is, he shrugged off the whole thing and seems to be acting his usual self.
He does not have any input about what "needs improvement." While he could be holding back some info or "forgot" about issues, i lean towards him being forethcoming as he and i have a good history of talking through any issues that arise at home. There's not been instances where he got in trouble and lied in the past so why would he now?

Hopefully i will hear back tomorrow from the school. I am not comfortable with a face to face. I feel like they or i may overeact to something said. Email seems best to avoid that possibility. Overthinking? Possibly. Justified? Unfortunately, "yes."

Last edited by Aboom; 04-19-2018 at 12:53 AM.. Reason: I corrected the last sentence because it was not as i intended.
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Old 04-19-2018, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Florida
3,538 posts, read 2,822,231 times
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I’d go in for a face to face. Schedule an appointment with the teacher and the principal or vice principal. Don’t take what the teacher says as the gospel truth; some will “pad” their cases. Take notes during the meeting and send an email with your notes “so we are all on the same page” via email to the teacher and the principal. Include the plan for resolving the problems. That keeps everything in writing and leaves a paper trail while not allowing for dilly-dallying the way it can happen while waiting on emails.
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Old 04-19-2018, 09:54 AM
 
840 posts, read 515,701 times
Reputation: 1225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aboom View Post
It gets more weird...since he volunteered what the "bunny ears" meant,
He has come home with 2 notes saying his behavior "needs improvement" with no details. Using the class app, i message the teacher and several days later i get a response but she does not answer my question about "what exactly do we need to address here?"

Concerned as to "whats going on here," i decided to message the principle since i want to be proactive in correcting the problem "needing improvement." She messaged me back saying she would check with the teacher and get back with me. That was 2 days ago. I feel uncomfortable about this and i do not know how to proceed. Preferably, i would like to do nothing because of concern for what they can do. I've been thrown under the bus before and the school got away with it.

I have never instigated issues or whined, or whatever you might want to call it. I am all for him getting corrected properly. I just want my son to stop being the scapegoat. It seems that because of me he has been targeted. I hope that is not the case, but these experiences are adding up and i just cannot pin it down to anything else at this point.

The good thing is, he shrugged off the whole thing and seems to be acting his usual self.
He does not have any input about what "needs improvement." While he could be holding back some info or "forgot" about issues, i lean towards him being forethcoming as he and i have a good history of talking through any issues that arise at home. There's not been instances where he got in trouble and lied in the past so why would he now?

Hopefully i will hear back tomorrow from the school. I am not comfortable with a face to face. I feel like they or i may overeact to something said. Email seems best to avoid that possibility. Overthinking? Possibly. Justified? Unfortunately, "yes."
Based only on what you have posted here; i would say I agree with the teacher. Your sonís behavior does need improvement. He is too young to be getting in trouble as frequently as he is over saying/ doing inappropriate things. I donít think heís being targeted if he really did say/do the things you say he said/did.

At least imho.
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Old 04-20-2018, 07:59 PM
 
1,005 posts, read 1,481,911 times
Reputation: 844
The little girl actually deserves to get an apology. Why make a fuss about it? And I agree with the post above, based on later posts, the OP's son's behavior needs improvement. Why still have the school talk about anything specific? Why so defensive that your son might have done something wrong? Even if he made an "innocent" mistake, feeling that your son does not need to apologize or has no need to improve his behavior is not exactly productive. Even if he made a innocent comment, he has to learn not to interrupt or get himself involved in other people's affairs.

This incident does not involve only the OP's son. He might not agree to how this is handled, but I sympathize with the school here. If that girl is my daughter and the school just let it go, they might hear from me too! No, the more important question is not whether the OP is upset or whether his son is upset. The more important considerations are whether the little girl got upset, or if the other boy got upset. Bunny ears can be seen as innocent, but after some members of this class already put some meaning to it (probably for months already), the kids in this class now see it differently. With the meaning that this class has put into bunny ears, the girl may either feel innocently nothing or feel harassed. The other boy might just be being playful and can be upset if the OP's son's comment pretty much put him in hot waters. It's difficult to say how innocent or guilty he is.

You can't just say that "sex" doesn't mean anything for ALL 6-year olds nowadays. Certainly not 6-year olds who know about sexual connotations of some gestures that many adults here still need to consult the urban dictionary. "Sex" is far from being as innocent as "lettuce". Anyone think that an apology or anything is warranted if he merely said "that means peace" or "that means victory"? Young kids need to know what is appropriate behavior in their own culture and not be excused for being too young. Unless it's a completely innocent mistake based on the context, it's difficult where to draw the line. What if it's not bunny ears and it's the middle finger? And what if he said "that means f*ck" rather than "that means sex"?
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