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Old 05-04-2018, 05:14 PM
 
7,755 posts, read 3,789,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenneth.24 View Post
Yes, I agree. I hope my sister and my mother don't talk about it to anybody else either. I don't know what my sister is planning on doing with my nieces but I really don't want it getting out.
Appeal to any favor they may have for your kids. "Yes sister/mother, I know that we don't see eye to eye and we've been fighting a lot, but I feel like the girls [and sister's kids, I assume] are too young to understand the details of what has happened, and I hope that we can keep the suicide attempt between ourselves for their sake. If we tell too many people, it's bound to get out. I'm not asking this for me, I'm asking for the kids."
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Old 05-04-2018, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
16,431 posts, read 15,842,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenneth.24 View Post
So I shouldn't tell them he committed suicide, right? Maybe something along the lines of "he went through a heart failure"? The thing is my eldest daughter keeps pushing it, especially because she knows about my dad's history with this mental illness as well as a pretty recent suicide attempt. But if I tell my eldest chances are she'll tell my youngest daughter and I don't want that. I just don't want them knowing.
Edit. I have just read more posts from the OP regarding his sister.

While at this point you can be vague such as "We really do not know for sure what happened. Your grandfather is having severe heart problems. This may have been caused by an accidental overdose of his medications - complications with his medications- a mix-up with his medication -or something similar).

If your daughter is pushing for answers she really needs to know the truth. Unfortunately, suicide is difficult to understand at any age, but for someone as young as 12 it would be much harder. IMHO, since depression has such a strong genetic component, at some point your children do need to be told the truth (it may have been a deliberate overdose). Of course, you do not know for sure unless your father left a note, so it will always be a possibility that it was an accidental overdose due to confusion or error.

Would you lie to your children if your father died from cancer or diabetes or a stroke? I doubt it, as you would want your children to have an accurate health history so that they can take better care of their health, but would you need to tell a six year old or a twelve year old all the details? At this time, probably not.

Many cities have counseling services for children who have experiences a death in the family. Sometimes they are through hospice organizations and other times they are through hospitals. Please call around to find services or programs for your children (as well as for you, if needed). You can also contact suicide hotlines or organizations to see if they have any suggestions for you or your children.

I am so sorry.

I do have a suggestion. While your father is alive, on life support, you can call any relatives who wish to say good-bye to him and just hold the phone up to his ear. They say that hearing is last sense to go and it may bring comfort to you and his other relatives to have that closure. I did that when my husband was given a few hours to live (and his children and siblings could not arrive before his death). In my husband's case, I do believe that he could hear them and it certainly gave his relatives great comfort to speak to him even though he could not respond.

Please take good care of yourself. The death of a parent, no matter your age, can be extremely difficult, especially if you do not have the support of siblings.

Last edited by germaine2626; 05-04-2018 at 05:36 PM.. Reason: Updated my response.
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Old 05-04-2018, 05:16 PM
 
7,755 posts, read 3,789,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenneth.24 View Post
not yet, since he's on life support right now they said they're waiting until he lets go to start the whole procedure.
I would go ahead and ask them if you can speak to a social worker. They don't just come into play after your father has passed. You should be able to talk to someone now.
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Old 05-04-2018, 05:29 PM
Status: "one of the wettest from the standpoint of water" (set 28 days ago)
 
Location: Denver CO
18,927 posts, read 9,971,795 times
Reputation: 27660
I'm very sorry about your father.

However, I don't think 12 and something older than 12 are too young to be told the truth. I'm not saying every detail, but they aren't babies. I would let them know that their grandfather had the very severe disease of depression and lost his life to that disease. He is sick, that's not a judgement on him or his actions.

The reality is that teens are at high suicide risk themselves, and the subject of suicide prevention comes up regularly in school at that age so the chances they don't understand what it is are very low.

This article has some guidelines by age.

https://www.today.com/parents/talk-c...ids-any-t94331
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Old 05-04-2018, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Northern CA area
73 posts, read 36,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
I strongly disagree.

While at this point you can be vague such as "We really do not know for sure what happened. Your grandfather is having severe heart problems. This may have been caused by an accidental overdose of his medications - complications with his medications- a mix-up with his medication -or something similar).

If your daughter is pushing for answers she really needs to know the truth. Unfortunately, suicide is difficult to understand at any age, but for someone as young as 12 it would be much harder. IMHO, since depression has such a strong genetic component, at some point your children do need to be told the truth (it may have been a deliberate overdose).

My daughter's best friend took his own life when they were high school juniors. This was 13 years ago and she recently mentioned that she still frequently thinks about him and wishes that she could have done more to help him (he had a long history of serious depression).

Many cities have counseling services for children who have experiences a death in the family. Sometimes they are through hospice organizations and other times they are through hospitals. Please call around to find services or programs for your children (as well as for you, if needed). You can also contact suicide hotlines or organizations to see if they have any suggestions for you or your children.

I am so sorry.

I do have a suggestion. While your father is alive, on life support, you can call any relatives who wish to say good-bye to him and just hold the phone up to his ear. They say that hearing is last sense to go and it may bring comfort to you and his other relatives to have that closure.
It was definitely a deliberate overdose. I asked his doctor and he said that given the amount of excess medication they found in his system, there's no way it could have been accidental. It's complicated because while my eldest daughter is really hounding me about telling her exactly what happened, I do not under any circumstances want my youngest daughter finding out and I know that if I tell one of them, the other is going to find out. It's kind of the same issue I have with my sister and my nieces, and I know for a fact she's told them/will tell them soon.
My eldest daughter already knows about his depression, they were really close so they've had heart to hearts about a lot, and I've also mentioned certain things because my father has been struggling with really bad depression ever since I was 9 years old so it's hard to talk about my childhood without mentioning it. Throughout all of my childhood he was in and out of the hospital because sometimes it would get so bad he wouldn't be able to take care of himself and he'd completely break down. I remember when I was 11 he was about to commit suicide by hanging himself but my mom came into the room and caught it just in time. It's one of my most vivid memories.
I often find myself in the same position as your daughter, I keep on wondering what else I could have done to make things better for him. I don't know, I feel like I could have done so much more but I didn't and now it's too late.
Thank you for your suggestion regarding the phone calls, I feel like that may be a good idea. I will talk to some relatives and see what I can do, and hopefully it will be able to somewhat help all of us a bit.
Thanks for taking time out of your day to reply
-Ken
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Old 05-04-2018, 05:33 PM
 
Location: planet earth
2,737 posts, read 977,124 times
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If your dad passes, you do not have to tell your kids anything other than "he was really sick and it was his time."

On your sister: Get over it. Few of us have ideal families. Just accept that she is not going to meet your picture of what a good sister would do in these circumstances. She and you have completely different experiences of your childhood, so while you may think your mom was "1000 times worse" than your dad, she has her own experience and it sounds like it is completely different than your analysis. There is no "right or wrong" - it's all about perception and each one of us has our own filter.
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Old 05-04-2018, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Northern CA area
73 posts, read 36,409 times
Reputation: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
I'm very sorry about your father.

However, I don't think 12 and something older than 12 are too young to be told the truth. I'm not saying every detail, but they aren't babies. I would let them know that their grandfather had the very severe disease of depression and lost his life to that disease. He is sick, that's not a judgement on him or his actions.

The reality is that teens are at high suicide risk themselves, and the subject of suicide prevention comes up regularly in school at that age so the chances they don't understand what it is are very low.

This article has some guidelines by age.

https://www.today.com/parents/talk-c...ids-any-t94331

They already know about the depression. It's the part about him killing himself I don't want to disclose. I don't want them feeling traumatized, hurt and honestly even embarrassed by it. I don't want them thinking any less of him and I'm not sure they'd understand at this premature and tender pre-teen/pre-adult age.
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Old 05-04-2018, 05:36 PM
 
432 posts, read 460,850 times
Reputation: 1402
I would not lie to my oldest daughter.
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Old 05-04-2018, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Northern CA area
73 posts, read 36,409 times
Reputation: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
If your dad passes, you do not have to tell your kids anything other than "he was really sick and it was his time."

On your sister: Get over it. Few of us have ideal families. Just accept that she is not going to meet your picture of what a good sister would do in these circumstances. She and you have completely different experiences of your childhood, so while you may think your mom was "1000 times worse" than your dad, she has her own experience and it sounds like it is completely different than your analysis. There is no "right or wrong" - it's all about perception and each one of us has our own filter.
My mom was so nasty to my sister (and me) when we were growing up. Trust me, I'm not assuming anything, I was there and saw it as well as experienced it with my own two eyes. She is not a good person, it has nothing to do with perception it's a fact. My dad is a good person. He has a kind heart and I think that any parent deserves to have that one last moment with their child before they pass (which, for my dad, will be very soon). it's selfish of her to take that away from him.
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Old 05-04-2018, 05:40 PM
 
Location: planet earth
2,737 posts, read 977,124 times
Reputation: 6338
Can't believe how many people think you should go into the gruesome details. It is not necessary.

Just remember him well - what was good about him and share that with your family. When he is gone, nothing is going to bring him back. You do not have a "duty" to share his private medical history with your family.

Last edited by nobodysbusiness; 05-04-2018 at 06:04 PM..
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