Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
However, I don't think 12 and something older than 12 are too young to be told the truth. I'm not saying every detail, but they aren't babies. I would let them know that their grandfather had the very severe disease of depression and lost his life to that disease. He is sick, that's not a judgement on him or his actions.
The reality is that teens are at high suicide risk themselves, and the subject of suicide prevention comes up regularly in school at that age so the chances they don't understand what it is are very low.
I agree. Especially in this day and age where kids are getting exposed earlier and earlier to drugs such as prescription medications by other teens. I would think seeing the fallout from that in your own family could be a deterrent. Not hat he used recreationally but that those medications can kill.
On the other side, I would also explain that his actions did not mean that he didn't love the kids or his family.
Why is this my opinion? I had a whole history of suicides in my family, my grandmother being the last one. My mother had internalized the idea, and spoke it out - something along the lines of "I might as well kill myself, what's the point" when I was still 8 or 9. She didn't, thank God, but she put that idea there in me. It hit my like thunder and lightning. Instead of it being "other" instead of it being irrational and not a solution or option - it suddenly became part of my life - in me, right from my own mother.
I am really so sorry you grew up with this in your life.
Surely you realize, though, that explaining the death of the OP's father is completely different from having one's own mother threaten suicide regularly.
Choosing not to inform teens about certain painful aspects of life doesn't protect them. It leaves them vulnerable. The OP can take the opportunity, without dwelling on it, to let his daughters know that suicide is a permanent way of dealing with to temporary problems.
12 is old enough to discuss suicide. A disturbing number of kids that age or not much older commit suicide each year. Anything that a child is capable of doing, a parent should be willing to discuss. Telling your kids that Grandpa is in intensive care because he attempted to take his own life is a perfect (albeit unwelcome) opportunity to discuss suicide-- its permanence, its impact on surviving loved ones, and how important it is for them to come to you and their mother if anything is troubling them so much that they consider taking their own lives.
Also, since they "keep asking" what happened, it is likely that they already know or suspect that Grandpa isn't in the hospital because of an illness, and they are probing because they want you to stop lying to them (by omission). Pre/teens are a lot more perceptive than adults think they are-- I know that I was.
Of course Grandpa is in the hospital for an illness. A suicide attempt is an illness, a drug overdose, intentional or not is an illness.
***
I was going to post this first, but then saw the post I multiquoted.
I've had another Eureka moment. How many people on here dispensing all this advice are health care professionals of any kind? I'd bet darn few. I think this issue requires a counselor/therapist, and I don't say that very often.
Telling a child that someone died from cancer from smoking isn't the same as suicide.
True, but it can still be a teachable moment. I tried to use it as such when a relative committed suicide, but they didn't know her so I don't think it had the same effect.
True, but it can still be a teachable moment. I tried to use it as such when a relative committed suicide, but they didn't know her so I don't think it had the same effect.
OK, I'm going to get flamed for this but, calling this a "teachable moment" is totally inappropriate! As a preschool teacher would say "we don't use suicide attempts as a teaching tool". The OP started this thread to help his kids through a difficult situation. Forget "teachable moments". The kids need help, so does the OP really, and I say that in a compassionate way, not as snark. He's losing his father.
I am really so sorry you grew up with this in your life.
Surely you realize, though, that explaining the death of the OP's father is completely different from having one's own mother threaten suicide regularly.
Choosing not to inform teens about certain painful aspects of life doesn't protect them. It leaves them vulnerable. The OP can take the opportunity, without dwelling on it, to let his daughters know that suicide is a permanent way of dealing with to temporary problems.
Its is different qualitatively yes - but nevertheless it still puts it out there as an actual rational option. The mind is still developing at 12, it is still being put in a healthy path. This is not the same, as I've tried to explain, as saying don't do drugs because drugs get you addicted then control your life or don't smoke because it causes cancer of everything from the tongue to the liver to the lungs. Those are informing over decisions about external dangers. Suicide is not the same. Its an internal danger - but its not even tangible until the idea has been put there. Most children would never even consider that one would kill oneself - it does not even occur to them. Once its presented as yes a real option then its in there. Presenting it to a 10 yr old is quote different to presenting it to a 16 year old because of the way the brain and psyche develop.
We don't expose children to all sorts of concepts and notions - we don't let them watch R-rated horror films at 10 because what happens is a massively age-inappropriate stimulation of their fight-or-flight response which never really recedes to the base level when the kid goes and watches more. That excess adrenaline/norepinephrine release is real and has real consequences in synaptic plasticity. You grow up with kids who can't go camping in the woods because of fake imaginary dangers they have seen (in horror movies) and internalized as actual possible threats - but which don't exist. We also don't expose kids to age-inappropriate sexual notions - and when that does occur at a young age that leads again to permanent character effects. Its too simplistic to think "well you can't protect them forever so its ok to show them" Its grading it and presenting it in a manner which is not deleterious.
I agree 12 is on the edge there - its getting to an age where it can be discussed properly, I don't know if the child is precocious, normal or emotionally behind. But there's no need to rush in - and how one presents it is very important - as you agree. Nevertheless, at some ages, where adults are viewed by kids as omnipotent and omniscient almost, and kids are still copying them consciously and subconsciously, it is not appropriate. Once that notion - suicide - is there - its there in them. It needs to be presented at a time when it becomes, to the child, someone else's bad idea rather than one of the tools the child swallows as a real option as part of their life. Your uncle isn't your parent - but, in familial terms, he can still be close enough for him to be you in transference. (BTW - my mom only said it once, not multiple times - but the cat was then out the bag so to speak). Developmental neuropsychology waypoints are important. Don't go showing movies where people are killed to 5 yrs olds etc.
The OP is right to be thinking about this - there is a flag raised in his head that this somehow might not be appropriate just yet. There's a reason for that flag.
OK, I'm going to get flamed for this but, calling this a "teachable moment" is totally inappropriate! As a preschool teacher would say "we don't use suicide attempts as a teaching tool". The OP started this thread to help his kids through a difficult situation. Forget "teachable moments". The kids need help, so does the OP really, and I say that in a compassionate way, not as snark. He's losing his father.
You are completely entitled to your opinion. However, sweeping depression and suicide under the rug exacerbates the problem. Look at the OP:
Quote:
My dad struggled with really bad depression throughout his life and had tried killing himself twice before (once when I was 12 and then twice rather recently) but I never thought he'd actually do it.
I think the appropriate time to discuss things like this is whenever the parent feels that the children can understand the concept of death. These children are teenagers Maybe they will be depressed in their high school, college, or adult lives. Maybe they think they are the only ones. Maybe they heard rumors about grandpa committing suicide but... no one talked about it because we don't talk about such things.
The OP's youngest daughter is 12. They aren't exactly preschool age here, so I don't think what a preschool teacher would say is really part of the conversation here. These are kids that go to school likely with at least one kid that will commit suicide themselves. It is an omnipresent problem. Tackle it.
Next time just sign your name to rep comments so I don’t have to report you.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
