Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And he didn’t tell me because he knew I would say no and then he would have to tell his mother “no”.
I know it’s hard to imagine Moms like this but they are out there - mothers who enmesh their children. It’s very very sad.
Right, and it's often the birth of a child that forces these kinds of conflicts because all of our past "issues" with our parents come to light when we then become parents.
Even though we may be grown adults, when we interact with our parents we often still do so in the dynamic that was formed in our family of origin. So a son who wanted to please his mom growing up (because he learned very quickly what would happen if he didn't please her) still will want to do so as an adult. It reads like that is the issue here.
Regardless of one's religious leanings, I do think there is something relevant about the Bible verse that says in marriage "a man leaves his father and mother and cleaves unto his wife." The two become one, so to speak, but that is not happening here. The husband is having a hard time separating from that childish desire to please his mom, to his wife's detriment.
Had my ex figured this out earlier, we might still be married today. The feeling that your spouse does not have your back is devastating.
There are ways to compromise so that grandma gets plenty of baby time and mom and dad don't feel smothered, if all parties are willing. Hopefully the OP toughens up, her husband wises up, and Grandma stops trying to live vicariously.
Right, and it's often the birth of a child that forces these kinds of conflicts because all of our past "issues" with our parents come to light when we then become parents.
Even though we may be grown adults, when we interact with our parents we often still do so in the dynamic that was formed in our family of origin. So a son who wanted to please his mom growing up (because he learned very quickly what would happen if he didn't please her) still will want to do so as an adult. It reads like that is the issue here.
Regardless of one's religious leanings, I do think there is something relevant about the Bible verse that says in marriage "a man leaves his father and mother and cleaves unto his wife." The two become one, so to speak, but that is not happening here. The husband is having a hard time separating from that childish desire to please his mom, to his wife's detriment.
Had my ex figured this out earlier, we might still be married today. The feeling that your spouse does not have your back is devastating.
There are ways to compromise so that grandma gets plenty of baby time and mom and dad don't feel smothered, if all parties are willing. Hopefully the OP toughens up, her husband wises up, and Grandma stops trying to live vicariously.
same here
had my ex husband figured it out we also would probably be married today.
My grown daughter tells me, that when MIL pulled one of her tricks early on I should have packed the babies up and left. That all the power was with me to make the real issue clear for him to decide to course correct or keep with the same enmeshed behavior. That men understand action not words. With words you aren't serious just unpleasant.
My grown son said I should have left Dad sooner. We deserved better.
Both harsh, both true. Broke my heart but they were right in our case.
OP I am not saying be so drastic as my kids recommended. But I agree words don't work. Truly considered actions are more likely to make a point if you are prepared to mean what you say with your actions.
So try counseling. Do a lot of realistic thinking: including if the 'mommy first things' are that important to the family in the long run, What is your part in the dynamic. etc. Be prepared that you may need to consider worst case actions as not always the worst thing in life.
Good luck If things are as you describe, then you are in a no win situation.
I have another thought. What if MIL was actually given permission to attend all these events. That is, what if DH (during his conversations with his mom) did give MIL give permission to attend mommy and me class and dr appts and he just never told his wife. Why would he do this? Because he is unable to say no to his mom for fear she will overreact (like she probably has his whole life).
You think this sounds crazy but my husband did this once. My MIL showed up to our house a week early
during Christmas time. I was dumbfounded. Who does this????? My husband later (years later) confessed he knew she was coming early. He couldn’t deal with saying no because of the waterworks from her. And he didn’t tell me because he knew I would say no and then he would have to tell his mother “no”.
I know it’s hard to imagine Moms like this but they are out there - mothers who enmesh their children. It’s very very sad.
I was also thinking that that the son told his mother that "of course, it is OK for you to go to the Mommy and Me classes and all of the pediatrician appointments" because he was afraid to stand up to her and tell her "no". That is why he got so angry at his wife when she talked to him about those things.
had my ex husband figured it out we also would probably be married today.
My grown daughter tells me, that when MIL pulled one of her tricks early on I should have packed the babies up and left. That all the power was with me to make the real issue clear for him to decide to course correct or keep with the same enmeshed behavior. That men understand action not words. With words you aren't serious just unpleasant.
My grown son said I should have left Dad sooner. We deserved better.
Both harsh, both true. Broke my heart but they were right in our case.
OP I am not saying be so drastic as my kids recommended. But I agree words don't work. Truly considered actions are more likely to make a point if you are prepared to mean what you say with your actions.
So try counseling. Do a lot of realistic thinking: including if the 'mommy first things' are that important to the family in the long run, What is your part in the dynamic. etc. Be prepared that you may need to consider worst case actions as not always the worst thing in life.
Good luck If things are as you describe, then you are in a no win situation.
Good points. We had a situation in our extended family that happened quite a few years ago. The in-laws owned a family business and it was arranged that when their son got married they were going to retire and let the son take over the business. First it was set up that they would move before the wedding. Later, it was agreed that there would be a "brief" transition (maybe a few months) where the young married couple would live in the house connected to the business (with his parents) while the parents looked for a small retirement home.
Well, as time went on, the older couple said "Well, we need a few more weeks/months to find a place", "Well, we don't want to move in winter", "We should really stay and help you during the busy season", etc. etc. In the mean time they were not holding up their end of the bargain regarding transferring the business (that their son had worked in for free/nearly free for many years). And, they were making their DIL's life a living hell (this was confirmed by numerous,numerous relatives).
The situation got worse and worse for the new wife. No matter what she said her husband did not "see" a problem, as he had given in to his parents his entire life. Finally, she told her husband "I am leaving, with our children (age 5 and 3) and we are not returning until your parents follow through on the agreement." Well, it took the mother six months of couch surfing and moving from relative to relative before her in-laws finally bought their retirement home and moved out and she returned to her husband.
The husband's only comment was something like, "I had no idea that you were unhappy. Why didn't you tell me?" (and, of course, she had been telling him in words for years). But, later he realized that his parents had been treating both him and his wife very poorly.
One ironic thing was after the in-laws finally retired and moved into a new place, about six and a half years after they had originally agreed to transfer the business, retire and move out they were very,very happy and could not imagine why they had done it sooner.
Theres definitely a lot of great and helpful advice here. It is a good starting point. Im sure it is also a conversation i will have to have repeatedly. My H and i definitely do need to talk and get on the same page. It is not thar he doesnt want to deal with this, it is morw that he doesnt know how to. He feels he is in the middle and has to be careful no to hurt either his mom or me.
Also, i want to address the comments stating grandparwnts are a blessing. And for sure it is. There have been times when im so grateful MIL is so close that she can help out when things come up. My own parents are an hour away. However, i also feel it is very possible for grandparents to have a large part in our lives without taking anythihg away feom the parents. I dont think it is fair that i have to give up a part of my motherhood and share that. I mean im also never going to get this time back. Im certainly not going to wait for my kid to have kids vefore i do things how i want to. I hope that is understandable. It is just not comfortable to feel like a swcond class mom so to speak.
Also, i know my MIL isnt being malicious or purposely trying to take things away from me. I actually got along really well with her before the baby was born. She is the only person in my H's famiky to really welcome me and get me involved in their acrivities. She made an effort to get to know me and also my parents. Her personality is just big. She is big in her welcome but she is also big in taking things over. It is jsut who she is.
But again, like i said, there is great advice here and great starting poonts for gently putting down some boundaries.
Please give up that "it's not fair" talk. It sounds like, well, you fill in the blank. It's not mature talk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra99
Ive been extremely frustrated the last few days and havent been able to come up wkth a solution myself.
I sat my H down and calmly explained that we both need to stop oversharing with MIL, that there are some things she just does not need to know.
For example, if we are taking a parent and me class, we can tell her abput the class but shr doesnt need to know when and where. If we have a pediatrician appointment, all she needa to know is LO is good. There is no need to tell her details abput vaccinations or whatever.
Does thst seem ubreasonable?? Apparently it is. We got into a huge argument. He told me that i can not tell him whatconversations he has with his mom. He doesnt tell me how to talk to my parents so i cant do thst to him.
I was left so shocked abd hurt. I dont know why he insusts on his mom knowing. I domt know what i shoulx do now
He has a point with that bold. I've had this stuff happen to me, too. You (I) think up a conversation and think the other person, e.g. your (my) spouse, is going to see your (my) point entirely but it never works that way. That said, while you can't tell him how to talk to his mom, you can let him know her knowing all the details of your lives is not helpful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626
I am sorry that your conversation did not go well.
I wonder if your MIL shared everything with her parents and in-laws and took them to every doctor's appointments? I bet that the answer is "No, she did not." To me that is not common.
I can truthfully tell you that my parents or in-laws never once attended a pediatrician, or any doctor's, appointment with either of their grandchildren. In fact, we never even told them about most health things regarding their grandchildren except for things like allergies or when our children had surgery (hernia surgery, mole removed, tonsils out). My son & DIL have never told us anything about their childrens' health (except when our grandson had minor surgery at one year old) and our grandson is almost five and granddaughter two and a half.
I wonder if your husband tells his mother everything about his health, too? Does he call her to inform her that he missed work because of a bad cold or the flu? Does he call her to keep her informed about ALL of his doctor's appointments? Oh. my! Does he share private and personal health information about you with his mother? That you had an OK PAP test or that your mammogram was normal? (Just let that sink in for a minute or two). If you want to test that out mention to your husband a made-up minor health problem of yours (? an annoying pimple on your underarm or something like that) and see if your MIL asks you about it.
I think that he is wrong to overshare but I bet that he has done that his whole life and thinks that it is normal. I really, really hate to suggest this but maybe you should not tell your husband anything that you don't want his mother to know about. Maybe, when you sign up for a Mommy and me class you shouldn't tell your husband every tiny detail about it. Not that I ever hid things from my husband, but when I took Mommy & Me classes he knew that I was going to be gone from 9 AM to 11 AM on Saturday for dance class or tumbling class or whatever but I did not feel that I needed to give him the exact address or room number of where it was held. Of course, if he asked I told him, but he never asked for those details. He just wanted to know what we did and if our child had fun after we got home.
I had a job where I was off for the summer and I did not tell Hubby what we were doing in advance each day. If it was a great day, we might go to various parks or out for ice cream or occasionally to the zoo or the children's museum with another mom and child, but I did not always let my husband know our exact plans in advance. We shared our exciting adventures after they happened. Maybe you could try doing that.
Having worked in a pediatrician's office, I can tell you that at least at my office it was neither "common" nor "rare". IOW, it happened, especially with the first newborn visit when the MIL is likely to be actively involved, but not only then. For the most part, I, old enough to be a MIL, found these grandmothers everything from neutral to a nuisance, but occasionally one would be helpful.
When my H and his siblings were growing up, my MIL had a pretty demanding job. She often worked long hours, had business trips, etc. She didnt get the chance to really watch them grow and to raise them.
Both my sister in laws live across the country so MIL didnt have the opportunity to be around them. She felt like she missed out on her own kids and also her older grandkids.
When my H and I had a child last year, MIL went a little overboard compensating for her lost time with her kids/grandkids. We live close to her. She was over 3-4 times a week, she wanted to come to preditrician appointments, she took firsts away from me. I basically felt like she was trying to be a mom again with my kid and I didnt like that feeling.
I talked with my H and he explained the history to me. Abd I get it. Once upon a time she was a working mom and had to give up time with her own kids in order to provide for them. And she missed out on a lot of things. My FIL basically raised them on his own.
I get it . I really do. I'm trying so hard to be ok with sharing my son. I'm trying so hard to not feel resentment when I think shes mothering him. I'm trying. But I'm also failing. I feel resentment, I feel hurt. I feel like there are 2 moms in my sons life. I dont know what I can do to feel better about this situation.
I posted this question in a different forum and was told by everyone that MIL is crazy and she needs to be cut out. I dont want to do that. I want us all to be one happy family but I also want her to respect that there must be boundaries and she cant and she usnt my sons mom.
For example, at a family dinner I told everyone that I was taking a mommy and me music class and how LO loves to bang on the drum. Apparently MIL took this as an invitation. For the remaining 6classes, she came to every one of them and she was the one who held my son and played with him. I felt like an outsider watching. I never asked her to come, she never asked me if she could. She just showed up. It's just things like this that bothers me.
If I were to say no dont come, I would feel so guilty. But when she does come, I feel like shes being intrusive and I feel like an outsider. Either way whether she comes or not, I feel bad.
And she tries and did take firsts from me. With fall coming up, shes all about taking LO to his first pumpkin patch. Abd that's something I want to do with him. I dont want her to come along either because she will take over. I have a more passive personality and shes more aggressive. It is just not in my nature to stand up to people
My H did try to gently tell her to back off a little bit. But she just ended up sobbing and we both felt guilty about that.
I'm sorry this is so long and rambling. I hope I got my question across in all this mess. I dont know how to be ok with mil treating my LO like he is her child.
Practice what you will say to her and then say it.
Write down 5 most important things you want to solve.
Narrow down to 3
Eg. when we go to Kid’s activity I wish to hold and participate with him. You can observe.
Plan 3 different activities she can do with kid on her own without you. Narrow down to 2.
Then let her do it and you go and enjoy some time for yourself.
I am sorry that your conversation did not go well.
I wonder if your MIL shared everything with her parents and in-laws and took them to every doctor's appointments? I bet that the answer is "No, she did not." To me that is not common.
I can truthfully tell you that my parents or in-laws never once attended a pediatrician, or any doctor's, appointment with either of their grandchildren. In fact, we never even told them about most health things regarding their grandchildren except for things like allergies or when our children had surgery (hernia surgery, mole removed, tonsils out). My son & DIL have never told us anything about their childrens' health (except when our grandson had minor surgery at one year old) and our grandson is almost five and granddaughter two and a half.
I wonder if your husband tells his mother everything about his health, too? Does he call her to inform her that he missed work because of a bad cold or the flu? Does he call her to keep her informed about ALL of his doctor's appointments? Oh. my! Does he share private and personal health information about you with his mother? That you had an OK PAP test or that your mammogram was normal? (Just let that sink in for a minute or two). If you want to test that out mention to your husband a made-up minor health problem of yours (? an annoying pimple on your underarm or something like that) and see if your MIL asks you about it.
I think that he is wrong to overshare but I bet that he has done that his whole life and thinks that it is normal. I really, really hate to suggest this but maybe you should not tell your husband anything that you don't want his mother to know about. Maybe, when you sign up for a Mommy and me class you shouldn't tell your husband every tiny detail about it. Not that I ever hid things from my husband, but when I took Mommy & Me classes he knew that I was going to be gone from 9 AM to 11 AM on Saturday for dance class or tumbling class or whatever but I did not feel that I needed to give him the exact address or room number of where it was held. Of course, if he asked I told him, but he never asked for those details. He just wanted to know what we did and if our child had fun after we got home.
I had a job where I was off for the summer and I did not tell Hubby what we were doing in advance each day. If it was a great day, we might go to various parks or out for ice cream or occasionally to the zoo or the children's museum with another mom and child, but I did not always let my husband know our exact plans in advance. We shared our exciting adventures after they happened. Maybe you could try doing that.
All good points. I know a 31 year old man who has never gone to a doctor's appointment of any kind without his mother. I'm sure if he has children she will accompany them too. It's bizarre.
All good points. I know a 31 year old man who has never gone to a doctor's appointment of any kind without his mother. I'm sure if he has children she will accompany them too. It's bizarre.
Yes, that is pretty bizarre, Frankly, I would be shocked if a 31 year old "man" who is such a Mama's Boy that he takes his mother along to all of his doctor's appointments would even cut the apron strings enough to date, get married and have children. (Unless, there are extenuating circumstances, such as he is battling cancer or a chronic illness, and he needs a "second pair of ears" with him documenting what the doctor is telling him).
She doesn't get a 'do over' with her grandchildren. She raised her children and whatever mistakes/ missed opportunities were made, that time has passed. Her grandchild has a mother who should be doing all the 'firsts' with him that the mother wants to do. The parents of the child decide who gets access and how much access is given to the child-there should be no random pop ups or I was just in the neighborhood kind of excuses.
Yes OP, you can't tell your husband what to tell his mother. You might have to watch what you say to him if you find out that he is telling his mother every activity that your child is in. Does he understand that you want to do these things, these firsts, with your child without his mother being there? It's a Mommy and Me class, not Grandma and Me. He is caught in the middle but his first loyalty needs to be you and your child. You need to stop feeling guilty about saying no to her. She cries because it is a way of manipulating you. She is supposedly an adult and should recognize that she is overstepping boundaries. She needs to step back and let you parent your child.
... That men understand action not words. With words you aren't serious just unpleasant.
Bingo.
You either back your talk or it is all just talk.
My husband and I had a serious difference of opinion that went on for months. I told him that I couldn't stay and watch the inevitable result.
It didn't change, so I packed up the kids and drove three states away to stay with a friend.
I called to tell him I had left, that I was searching for an apartment, and that we could work out visitation, child support, and splitting of our assets with mediation or with attorneys. His choice.
He was floored. Pointed out that I had objected to other things in the past and it hadn't come to this.
I realized right then that I should had stood my ground before.
We got back together. Finished raising our kids together. But from then on out, we both knew that there was a line and if we ever got to it again, I wasn't going to argue or fuss about it. I was gone.
I expect that it works the same in reverse.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
(and, of course, she had been telling him in words for years). But, later he realized that his parents had been treating both him and his wife very poorly.
