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Old 09-25-2018, 05:17 PM
 
Location: here
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I've seen it go both ways.
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Old 09-25-2018, 08:02 PM
 
Location: The point of no return, er, NorCal
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I guess it depends on what one classifies as "degenerate." More times than not I observe this behavior in individuals raised in strict, often "old fashioned" households. There are behaviors I find objectionable that are deeply rooted in certain ideologies and philosophies and perpetuated and perpetrated by individuals from "wholesome" families.

My upbringing was kind of a mix. Very progressive and free-range-y with mom and very strict with my father, though only lived with him during school breaks and visitations. My father has been eyeball-deep in a religious cult since I was six and I was brought up around it. But again, my mother was the primary parent and I probably parent most like her, but also my own style and way of doing things. But my kids know when I mean business and when I don't play. My mom was the same. The "worst" for me was getting a D in science my junior year and smoking pot with my high school boyfriend (with his parents -- very hippie-ish). Then I moved to my father's for my senior year. I did the whole church-y thing (Sunday morning + evening, Wed service, Thur soul-winning, and bible study) and all that jazz. But nothing crazy. Movies with friends, football games, etc. Moving to a new school my senior year is a bit of an adjustment and certainly didn't help with building a social life. Plus, I'm an introvert, anyway.

Then I did the whole backslidden thing post-graduation. Moved back to SoCal the day after graduation. I went to clubs with a fake ID at 17/18 with coworkers, met dates online and had a freaking blast. Then met my first husband (on AOL) and got sucked back into the religious cult for a number of years. Got married super young and had babies. Not much of the wild stage. And I couldn't keep that up. It was fun while it lasted. A lot of my tattoos, heathenism, apostasy, "worldliness," piercings, "alt" lifestyle, all post-deconversion. Life after deconversion. During this period, I used pot maybe three times.

I've made it into my mid-30s never experiencing drunkenness. Never had a hangover. No drugs other than pot, and even that only a dozen or so times in my lifetime. I'm not really a drinker.

My father blames himself for my "backslidden ways" (e.g. apostasy). Lolol That had he been the custodial parent, I'd still be a bible-believing Christian.

To compare and contrast my husband's upbringing. His father was raised by super strict religious parents and he rebelled. He wasn't around much when my husband was growing up. He traveled a lot for work. My MIL, though still a product of her time and culture, was not super strict by any means. She didn't believe in corporal punishment and they weren't very religious. Mostly culturally religious. Only attended church for weddings and funerals. There wasn't much talk about religion in his household. MIL imposed restrictions on TV and movies and such until probably age 16. (not the case for me with either parent) My husband had to watch the cool R rated movies at friends' houses. lol He worked a summer job, but his parents gave him a truck for his birthday. His parents had high expectations for academics, which came easy for him and his sister.

My husband is a poster child goody two shoes, naturally so. His sister was more spirited and stubborn, but neither were/are rebellious by nature, at all. They didn't even date until college. My husband was super introverted, shy and a nerd/geek with maybe 3-4 friends throughout middle/high school. A GATE kid. He's naturally very reserved and agreeable. MIL said he was an easy kid/teen. He's never had a "rebellious" stage unless "coming out" as an atheist in his 20s qualifies as such. He doesn't drink, tried pot 15+ years ago and hated it, doesn't do parties, and has used martial arts as a form of therapy when he's stressed or bouts of depression. He has zero tattoos and piercings. His sister is also a "heathen," though has one or two tattoos, also a PhD candidate and college instructor.
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Old 09-26-2018, 05:51 AM
 
Location: USA
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Not only strict parents can cause rebellion in their adult children, it can cause their adult children to be extremely passive and people pleasing behaviors. So, it can go both ways. I used to be in a relationship with a guy like this. He was one of the most passive men I've ever met and was obsessed with helping his close male friends who were dependent on him for whatever reason. He came from a strong Christian family. And I strongly think he may be "in the closet" but too afraid to reveal his true self. He has this one "special" male friend who he buys small gifts for and pays for his dinner.

I've also known other extremely passive men who came from religious, strict families. I know one, he's my dad. lol My mom has him by the ball & chain. I feel bad for him.
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Old 09-26-2018, 06:31 AM
 
3,574 posts, read 2,574,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
You canít do it without discipline impossible
And we have been taught discipline is abuse
Thankfully no one has been teaching me or anyone I know of that. Rather they have been teaching that certain methods of discipline - or certain misapplications of it - cross the line into abuse. Which is a very different thing.

If anyone has actually been teaching you that discipline in and of itself is some kind of abuse - then they are likely to be some kind of really odd extremist. Who has been teaching you this?
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Old 09-29-2018, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Mesa AZ
184 posts, read 53,653 times
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I have a few stories I would like to tell and will make a more than one post,

A former girlfriend was divorced from a total sociopath who tried hard to twist his kids mind, she was well educated and was a very good parent. One of her sons who seemed a little odd when he was young was battling a meth problem last I heard from her. Her other son is kind, generous, and is working, going to school and plans to play on the PGA tour someday soon.

My next door neighbor is a Berkeley educated grade school teacher whose 2 kids did not earn even 1 HS diploma if you combined all their credits. I had a bad feeling the first time I met her daughter who was 8yo at the time. She was with her father who would pass away a year later. Little did I know how bad it could get. She dropped out of HS sophomore year ran away at 14 and lived with a young couple until the cops picked her up, she kicked out the windows of the patrol car. After moving back home she joined the local gang for a short time until she came down with 3 different types of VD at the same time. The sleazy thugs no longer came around looking for her after that. She gave her grandmother and her mother a pair of black eyes on separate occasions and tried to punch me on another occasion but I did not want get near that disease riddled thing. That is the moment she learned about my judo background, she ran full speed at me and I just flipped her a little and she did a superman impersonation for about 10 feet before crashing to the ground.
They have been cut out of grandmas 7 figure will according to my neighbors brother who is an accountant and executor of the will. My neighbor could not have been more liberal and uninvolved in their upbringing. As teens her 2 kids were in the kitchen with friends and they were all bragging about everything they had stolen from work in the past weeks. She didn't even batt an eye, she had no reaction whatsoever, I was in shock.
Unless you are blessed with some common sense you will never see how destructive liberalism is, it really is a mental disorder. I could tell you 50 more stories about these people that are similar. So sad.
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Old 09-29-2018, 10:46 PM
 
4,298 posts, read 1,770,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amandafrom97 View Post
It seems on this forum that people believe a lot that liberal parenting produces degenerate children almost always but I wonder if the opposite can be true. Can a parent who is too strict create a child who actually "rebels" and becomes disrespectful towards others, engaging in violent criminal behavior, mentally unstable and depraved.

I heard a lot of serial killers and mass murderers actually come from pretty strict abusive parents. Now I know that a lot don't but I wonder if they had different parents (and different genetics) would they be normal.

Side question, why do you think society forgets about the strict parents that produced bad children and only looks at the liberal ones.

Absolutely. I went to a small Methodist college. The PKs (Preacher's kids) were the ones who were always the wildest. Likewise the girls I dated with the strictest parents were, once they were away from their parents, like a bird out of a cage. I remember a beach trip in a group that had several PKs. It was the most stressful week of my life, because I was constantly worrying about several girls who were enjoying their very first bit of freedom and, by God, they were going to enjoy every nanosecond.

Mind you, I don't believe in being permissive. But there is such a thing as being so unrelentingly strict that the kids can't wait for a taste of freedom. When you uphold something such as alcohol and sex as the end-all, be-all, sine qua non of forbidden fruit, then it becomes a goal, unconsciously an emblem of adulthood.

One of the biggest beefs I have with our education system is that it forces children to be children long after they have become adults. A century, teenagers were marrying, having responsible jobs, and starting families. Today, we can't trust them to rent a car. To me, the epiphany came when my wife and I were watching Ken Burns' The War. Basically we were listening to the experiences of 18- and 19-year olds who were fighting, building roads, flying aircraft, and generally having to shoulder enormous responsibilities.


Meanwhile, among some of my kids' college-aged friends, there are some whose parents don't let them do anything. My daughter is in graduate school. Her roommate is also in grad school. The girl is about to be married and her parents still track her on her mobile phone. I am not kidding you.

I think the best parents I've observed are the ones who are more concerned with principles than rules. Principles on how you behave and what is not permitted. Rules are hard and fast, while principles are flexible to accommodate most situations.

As far as your side question is concerned, I don't think your assumption is correct. I think overly strict parents are seen as being just as harmful as the overly lenient ones.
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Old 10-01-2018, 02:54 PM
 
948 posts, read 228,281 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
Absolutely. I went to a small Methodist college. The PKs (Preacher's kids) were the ones who were always the wildest. Likewise the girls I dated with the strictest parents were, once they were away from their parents, like a bird out of a cage. I remember a beach trip in a group that had several PKs. It was the most stressful week of my life, because I was constantly worrying about several girls who were enjoying their very first bit of freedom and, by God, they were going to enjoy every nanosecond.

Mind you, I don't believe in being permissive. But there is such a thing as being so unrelentingly strict that the kids can't wait for a taste of freedom. When you uphold something such as alcohol and sex as the end-all, be-all, sine qua non of forbidden fruit, then it becomes a goal, unconsciously an emblem of adulthood.

One of the biggest beefs I have with our education system is that it forces children to be children long after they have become adults. A century, teenagers were marrying, having responsible jobs, and starting families. Today, we can't trust them to rent a car. To me, the epiphany came when my wife and I were watching Ken Burns' The War. Basically we were listening to the experiences of 18- and 19-year olds who were fighting, building roads, flying aircraft, and generally having to shoulder enormous responsibilities.


Meanwhile, among some of my kids' college-aged friends, there are some whose parents don't let them do anything. My daughter is in graduate school. Her roommate is also in grad school. The girl is about to be married and her parents still track her on her mobile phone. I am not kidding you.

I think the best parents I've observed are the ones who are more concerned with principles than rules. Principles on how you behave and what is not permitted. Rules are hard and fast, while principles are flexible to accommodate most situations.

As far as your side question is concerned, I don't think your assumption is correct. I think overly strict parents are seen as being just as harmful as the overly lenient ones.


In broad terms, what you are saying here is borne out by some research studies. Authoritarian parents (at one end) and permissive parents (at the other extreme) seem to produce less well-balanced and more "troubled" kids than authoritative parents. They are less likely to get depressed, less likely to get involved in anti-social behavior, more likely to be self-reliant, more socialized and better off on a host of other parameters. This is one attempt at a definition I found on the interwebs:

  • Permissive parents are reluctant to impose rules and standards, preferring to let their kids regulate themselves.
  • Authoritative parents take a different, more moderate approach that emphasizes setting high standards, being nurturing and responsive, and showing respect for children as independent, rational beings. The authoritative parent expects maturity and cooperation, and offers children lots of emotional support

Evidence-based parenting isn't crazy for sure. The interesting thing about authoritative parenting is that (once it was recognized) it was hypothesized it would produce better outcomes (population-wise). And then multiple studies subsequently performed appear to confirm that.
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Old 10-01-2018, 03:00 PM
 
948 posts, read 228,281 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STL74 View Post
Parents with strict rules who expect blind obedience do, in general, have poorly behaved children and teens who do not grow into mature and responsible adults. But overly permissive parents with no rules donít have great results either. The key is the happy medium. Rules are explained and understood. Mistakes are handled with some empathy and used as a learning experience.


Here STL74 has described the common sense of what is labeled as authoritative parenting. It doesn't matter what its called, many people instinctively understand it.
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Old 10-03-2018, 04:47 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
14,615 posts, read 11,799,869 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousgeorge5 View Post
I know a family where the parents were strict but their sons became drug addicts.


Famous singer Bing Cosby was strict. Two of his sons committed suicide.
Bing was a cruel father by all accounts...
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Old 01-01-2019, 04:24 PM
 
63 posts, read 13,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
Yes, strict parents often produce misbehaving kids.

That's where the term "military brat" comes from. Military parents are notorious for being strict, and their kids are notorious for being brats outside of the supervision of the parents.

Also, the preachers daughter cultural reputation. She goes off to college and look out.



I am a military brat. My father served well over twenty years and for the most part, he and my mother had me so well frightened of everything that I feared any serious misbehavior outside of parental supervision. There was always the threat that dad would be kicked out of the service if I did anything wrong. I suppose that along with a slew of other misfortunes in personality and outward appearance had a lot to do with why I was bullied in school and throughout adulthood, and I never recovered from it.

If anything, my problem was not so much that my parents were strict, it was that everyone else was not strict enough and those kids were just about put upon pedestals. I remember feeling this way as a child. So, yeah, I had a lot of deep resentment going on. Furthermore, it often angered me when other kids acted up, especially when feeling pressured into do so along with them, and because they were always slicker at it than me, I was the one who would get caught at something I was angry over being pressured into in the first place.

I certainly do not think of myself as a degenerate though.
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