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Old 01-23-2019, 12:27 PM
 
11,610 posts, read 9,482,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spuggy View Post
I canít speak for other posters but getting into the why and trying to judge isnít helpful, the bottom line is the daughter tried to share something deeply upsetting and instead of compassion and support she is made to feel like a liar and questioning why she would be friends with her rapist would add to that sense of being distrusted by the very people sheís supposed to feel she can trust.
This.
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Old 01-23-2019, 12:52 PM
 
5,647 posts, read 892,580 times
Reputation: 14785
I don't see why so many people are coming down so VERY hard on the OP.

Yes, in hindsight and/or to others having experience with this kind of issue who would be better able to handle the situation, the OP could have and should have handled the situation differently, but it was both upsetting and "out of the blue" to her, and I doubt whether most parents (and I include myself in this) would have handled it any better, or very much better, than the OP.

In short, in my opinion, the OP is not nearly the "horrible parent" that I think some people are implying she is.


P.S. On Edit: The OP also wrote (my italics), "No one in the family wants to speak to her ever again and the feeling is mutual. I told her my door and heart would always be open but don't know if she'll contact me again in a very, very long time. My guess is that she lied to her husband and got in too deep when we all challenged her on the subject based on what we knew from her and others. She also maintains she is bipolar and is on medicine but when my husband talked to her husband about it he went ballistic on the phone and said his wife doesn't need medication. I'm feeling very confused and hurt at present. My daughter had a lovely, loving and advantageous childhood. We don't know where this is coming from except that she may indeed be mentally ill." [end quote]

I think what I italicized is very telling because why would everyone in the family want to cut the daughter off for something like that? It sounds to me that this might not be the first time something like this has happened -- that she perhaps had a history of untruthfully relating events, or greatly exaggerating them. However, to say it again, yes, the OP could have been handled the situation better and been more supportive -- but again, this was something she was not prepared for and probably had no training for.

Last edited by katharsis; 01-23-2019 at 02:07 PM..
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Old 01-23-2019, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Ashland, Oregon
245 posts, read 117,894 times
Reputation: 471
Thank you all so much for your input. There are a few things to clear up, though. When I first heard of this event which occurred when she was fifteen, I DID tell her I wished I knew so as to help her though it. I was so sorry she went through all of it alone. I'd have moved heaven and earth for her. She never said she didn't want to tell me at the time. She just got angry that I had a different recollection of events at the time. It wasn't enough, however. Many years after that particular conversation is when the other two conflicting versions of her story emerged.

Nowadays, she spends much of her time lambasting me and her whole family on Facebook, telling stories about us all that are blatant lies, like we didn't bother going to her high school graduation. We have pictures of that day, of all of us, embracing the new graduate. Afterward we went out for dinner.

She has expressed her misery at my hands; how I told her she was 'fat' (no way, even if she was, which she wasn't), her hair is nasty, she is stupid, etc. all this stuff coming out of nowhere. Her sisters and other relatives who were around during those years are appalled. She told people she was 'homeless' at age 17, which is totally untrue. My husband retired but before we moved away we rented an apartment so the kids could finish up at school. We left her in the apartment on her own AFTER she graduated from high school. It was only for a month, after which she moved to another city (her choice), got a job, received a car from us, her horrible parents, who also paid the first and last month rent on her apartment and the tuition for her first semester of college (she dropped out after that). While we were in the apartment she said she had no bedroom. False. We gave her the Master Bedroom with its own bathroom. She claims on FB that we abandoned her.

At this point too much damage has been done. My efforts to reach out to her have been futile and she has cut off all contact. It is very disheartening because my two other girls are close with me and each other. They recall their childhood years with great fondness. The errant one's childhood was full of horrors, according to her. I did a lot for her and it was as much for me as for her because it was enjoyable to see her grow up with much love and among the good things life has to offer. I guess you just never know how they'll turn out no matter what.

Thanks for reading this. I'm heartbroken and so is my husband.
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Old 01-23-2019, 05:19 PM
 
5,647 posts, read 892,580 times
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^^^ I am just SO sorry for your pain and heartbreak, but you are certainly not alone in this tragedy -- and, yes, I think that it is tragic.

Not exactly the same, but this quote came to mind when reading the above:

"How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have a thankless* child!"

(Act 1, Scene 4 of William Shakespeare's King Lear.)


*Or a dishonest, unkind, or hate-filled one!
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Old 01-23-2019, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Ashland, Oregon
245 posts, read 117,894 times
Reputation: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spuggy View Post
I canít speak for other posters but getting into the why and trying to judge isnít helpful, the bottom line is the daughter tried to share something deeply upsetting and instead of compassion and support she is made to feel like a liar and questioning why she would be friends with her rapist would add to that sense of being distrusted by the very people sheís supposed to feel she can trust.

Well, it really wasn't that simple.

There were many of us around when this event too place. We all recall that she was very clear that an actual rape did not happen.

The subject came up out of the blue, six years later, and she was already annoyed at us for not supporting her. I didn't know how to support her if I didn't know what happened. Her toxic husband jumped all over us immediately which put me on the defensive. I tried to explain why I wasn't there for her - I didn't know.

Her sisters have the same recollections I do; even more because she opened up to them later. She said she was NOT raped. Her friends, who were around at the time, have not said she was raped. We asked them and they were very wishy-washy about it.

In retrospect, I should have jumped up immediately and hugged her but even that would have been too late. She prefers to think we deliberately ignored her trauma but again, we didn't know about it. It was actually her husband who brought it up the first time - I looked at her and said, 'I remember that but you said specifically he didn't go any further than him trying to kiss you.' She said, "No, I was raped". Then her husband said, "Why would you doubt her?" It just escalated after that.

Maybe one day if she dumps this bum, whom none of us have ever liked despite making a great effort, she'll come back into the fold. A lot of damage has been done however and bridges have been burned. As her mother, my door and heart are always open but this is a tough one.
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Old 01-23-2019, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Ashland, Oregon
245 posts, read 117,894 times
Reputation: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis View Post
^^^ I am just SO sorry for your pain and heartbreak, but you are certainly not alone in this tragedy -- and, yes, I think that it is tragic.

Not exactly the same, but this quote came to mind when reading the above:

"How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have a thankless* child!"

(Act 1, Scene 4 of William Shakespeare's King Lear.)


*Or a dishonest, unkind, or hate-filled one!
Thank you for your understanding, kath. I LOVED being a mom and love being a grandma to two boys who are growing up way too fast. Having my treasured child turn on me like this will be a hole in my heart forever.
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Old 01-23-2019, 05:57 PM
 
2,866 posts, read 1,253,843 times
Reputation: 11054
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExNooYawk2 View Post
Well, it really wasn't that simple.

There were many of us around when this event too place. We all recall that she was very clear that an actual rape did not happen.

The subject came up out of the blue, six years later, and she was already annoyed at us for not supporting her. I didn't know how to support her if I didn't know what happened. Her toxic husband jumped all over us immediately which put me on the defensive. I tried to explain why I wasn't there for her - I didn't know.

Her sisters have the same recollections I do; even more because she opened up to them later. She said she was NOT raped. Her friends, who were around at the time, have not said she was raped. We asked them and they were very wishy-washy about it.

In retrospect, I should have jumped up immediately and hugged her but even that would have been too late. She prefers to think we deliberately ignored her trauma but again, we didn't know about it. It was actually her husband who brought it up the first time - I looked at her and said, 'I remember that but you said specifically he didn't go any further than him trying to kiss you.' She said, "No, I was raped". Then her husband said, "Why would you doubt her?" It just escalated after that.

Maybe one day if she dumps this bum, whom none of us have ever liked despite making a great effort, she'll come back into the fold. A lot of damage has been done however and bridges have been burned. As her mother, my door and heart are always open but this is a tough one.

Why couldn’t you have given a more clear picture of what is happening. We can only respond to the initial post ,we are not mind readers. There is a lot deeper issues going on with her that we can’t possibly help you with. Perhaps like my daughter she has perception issues that make it hard for her to know what is real and what isn’t and whether something happened or not. Sadly we have much more in common than you might think. Sorry, it’s a painful journey no matter what the cause.
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Old 01-24-2019, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Ashland, Oregon
245 posts, read 117,894 times
Reputation: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spuggy View Post
Why couldnít you have given a more clear picture of what is happening. We can only respond to the initial post ,we are not mind readers. There is a lot deeper issues going on with her that we canít possibly help you with. Perhaps like my daughter she has perception issues that make it hard for her to know what is real and what isnít and whether something happened or not. Sadly we have much more in common than you might think. Sorry, itís a painful journey no matter what the cause.
You're right, Spuggy, and I really shouldn't have written about it here. It's hard to convey nuance in a forum like this one. I was trying to get over her FB posts which are so... crazy... and needed a place to vent. My first post was already long, yet not articulate enough to give a clear picture.

Thank you for responding and you're right about the painful journey. "Perception issues" is an apropos term in my case. I hope things go well for you and yours.
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Old 01-24-2019, 03:40 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
74,852 posts, read 66,551,095 times
Reputation: 71562
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExNooYawk2 View Post
Well, it really wasn't that simple.

There were many of us around when this event too place. We all recall that she was very clear that an actual rape did not happen.

The subject came up out of the blue, six years later, and she was already annoyed at us for not supporting her. I didn't know how to support her if I didn't know what happened. Her toxic husband jumped all over us immediately which put me on the defensive. I tried to explain why I wasn't there for her - I didn't know.

Her sisters have the same recollections I do; even more because she opened up to them later. She said she was NOT raped. Her friends, who were around at the time, have not said she was raped. We asked them and they were very wishy-washy about it.

In retrospect, I should have jumped up immediately and hugged her but even that would have been too late. She prefers to think we deliberately ignored her trauma but again, we didn't know about it. It was actually her husband who brought it up the first time - I looked at her and said, 'I remember that but you said specifically he didn't go any further than him trying to kiss you.' She said, "No, I was raped". Then her husband said, "Why would you doubt her?" It just escalated after that.

Maybe one day if she dumps this bum, whom none of us have ever liked despite making a great effort, she'll come back into the fold. A lot of damage has been done however and bridges have been burned. As her mother, my door and heart are always open but this is a tough one.
Aha! My impression from your OP, and now this post seems to confirm it somewhat, is that there are issues with the husband. He seems to fly off the handle, even when the topic isn't highly sensitive, and now you're hinting that he may be a negative influence on your daughter. Why do you call him a "bum", btw? Is there more to the story?

I could be wrong, I wasn't there, but it sounds to me like you were asking her for clarification of the discrepancy in accounts, not accusing her or grilling her. This would be a natural reaction for someone who offered help at the time of the incident, and was told that their involvement wasn't needed. You may have thought, "Did I miss something back then? Should I have tried to follow up, and talk about it? What really happened?" That's very different from a denial reaction.

There seems to be a lot more to the dynamic going on, that meets the eye.

Another question that comes to mind is, did she show any signs of mental health problems in her late teens, early 20's? That's sometimes the age at which serious problems can suddenly manifest.
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Old Yesterday, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Ashland, Oregon
245 posts, read 117,894 times
Reputation: 471
Calling him a 'bum' isn't something done lightly. It's not easy on a forum like this to list his various transgressions but I'll highlight the latest (last) one: he communicated to my daughter's entire family that 'in future, if you wish to contact her in any way, you are to do it through me. I will be monitoring all her family interactions'. Needless to say, that fell flat.
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