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Why do people do this? Someone can tell you in good faith that they didn't. But you know better, right?
Of course ample, food, play and rest does not do the trick because not all tantrums are a result of basic needs being met. But I will tell you that investing in not caving to a tantrum ever is a great investment in having them never to return. And, in my opinion, it is a service and benefit to the little kid. The basic assumption, a correct one, is that the kids CAN learn to control themselves and do when they know it is in their best interest. I don't hold nothing growing up into a life of crime as a gold standard. Bending the rules is awesome, necessary and really important. But not around this issue. Especially when it is soooooo easy to completely eradicate.
Good Grief we're talking about a birthday party! A time for celebration! Yeah, let's turn it into some deep "learning experience". I don't understand why you think "this issue", a birthday party, is the hill to die on. I can think of a lot more important things that came up in my years of parenting.
Good Grief we're talking about a birthday party! A time for celebration! Yeah, let's turn it into some deep "learning experience". I don't understand why you think "this issue", a birthday party, is the hill to die on. I can think of a lot more important things that came up in my years of parenting.
It's not the birthday party. It is the tantrum. Yup. I find eradicating tantrumming to be in the best interest of the kid. And missing 10 minutes of a party is NOT something that is so important. We obviously disagree.
Interesting thing, if you don't give in to tantrums, after a very short time, they just don't happen so the entire conversation goes away.
Same. This topic comes up on parenting boards. The standard argument against such a smart and practical approach is but what if there is something you HAVE to do. And then the examples of how a parent's whole world is going to fall apart and the rest of the Earth with it come in. I felt that this element of training was more important that pretty much anything short of a trip to the ER for a dying patient. Since that never happened, and the meltdown phase ended pretty quickly when it became evident that it did nothing, it's a win.
Yup.
Right? We had all three in 2 years. Baby tied to me in a wrap. One and two year-old children in the cart. One year-old son autistic, though we didn't know it yet.
He'd start his flailing in the store over the smallest thing and if he wouldn't calm down, I'd bring my cart to the front, ask them to hold it for me, and carry him out firmly in one arm while holding the two-year old's hand to walk. I'd put everyone in the car, earplug us all, nurse the baby, hand my toddler something to draw with, and wait. If I could tell this would be an ordeal, I'd call the store from my cell phone and apologize that I couldn't come back in to get it or flag down a cart-boy, for him to relay that, and then buckle in everyone and go home. Sometimes, they'd just wheel it into a walk-in cooler so my husband could pick it up on the way home. They had NO problem doing this. It beats both re-stocking AND having a child screaming in the store.
Grocery shopping at 10pm, alone, was delightful btw. lol
There's very little you HAVE to do. It's just inconvenient. But that inconvenience is worth it because it's only temporary. The character-building is permanent.
Right? We had all three in 2 years. Baby tied to me in a wrap. One and two year-old children in the cart. One year-old son autistic, though we didn't know it yet.
He'd start his flailing in the store over the smallest thing and if he wouldn't calm down, I'd bring my cart to the front, ask them to hold it for me, and carry him out firmly in one arm while holding the two-year old's hand to walk. I'd put everyone in the car, earplug us all, nurse the baby, hand my toddler something to draw with, and wait. If I could tell this would be an ordeal, I'd call the store from my cell phone and apologize that I couldn't come back in to get it or flag down a cart-boy, for him to relay that, and then buckle in everyone and go home. Sometimes, they'd just wheel it into a walk-in cooler so my husband could pick it up on the way home. They had NO problem doing this. It beats both re-stocking AND having a child screaming in the store.
Grocery shopping at 10pm, alone, was delightful btw. lol
There's very little you HAVE to do. It's just inconvenient. But that inconvenience is worth it because it's only temporary. The character-building is permanent.
Yah. The "deep learning experience" mentality is somewhat baffling to me. All our interactions with people and the world are learning experiences. It is earth shattering to imagine to expect your kid to understand the relationship between their behavior and what they can do. Like missing a few minutes of a party is the actual crisis. The way you calmly dealt with it is perfect.
I ran a daycare many years ago when my kids were small. The kids who were hardest to "reset", as it were, on Monday mornings were not the ones who caved consistently to tantrums though. The kids that were hardest, and had the hardest time frankly, were the kids whose parents were inconsistent. The child wound up basically not knowing how to behave. Not surprising.
Good Grief we're talking about a birthday party! A time for celebration! Yeah, let's turn it into some deep "learning experience". I don't understand why you think "this issue", a birthday party, is the hill to die on. I can think of a lot more important things that came up in my years of parenting.
Everything in childhood can be and often is a deep-learning experience. That's WHY childhoods are so important. For me, these experiences helped me learn and mature and learn self-control just as much as it has helped our children.
And there's no need to die on any hills. In all likelihood, this issue will not SURFACE AT a birthday party... the parent will have been curbing the tantruming habit for a while. When it comes up, deal with it now, rather than later... so there will be fewer and fewer and then NO laters.
With our kids so close in age, they got to see each other's tantrums. We killed three birds with one stone. The others saw how tantrums were handled and knew it would get them exactly nowhere.
Everything in childhood can be and often is a deep-learning experience. That's WHY childhoods are so important. For me, these experiences helped me learn and mature and learn self-control just as much as it has helped our children.
And there's no need to die on any hills. In all likelihood, this issue will not SURFACE AT a birthday party... the parent will have been curbing the tantruming habit for a while. When it comes up, deal with it now, rather than later... so there will be fewer and fewer and then NO laters.
With our kids so close in age, they got to see each other's tantrums. We killed three birds with one stone. The others saw how tantrums were handled and knew it would get them exactly nowhere.
This. Our second was too young to see her older brother's tantrums. But she did not see ANY tantrums. So it worked out pretty well.
Yah. The "deep learning experience" mentality is somewhat baffling to me. All our interactions with people and the world are learning experiences. It is earth shattering to imagine to expect your kid to understand the relationship between their behavior and what they can do. Like missing a few minutes of a party is the actual crisis. The way you calmly dealt with it is perfect.
I ran a daycare many years ago when my kids were small. The kids who were hardest to "reset", as it were, on Monday mornings were not the ones who caved consistently to tantrums though. The kids that were hardest, and had the hardest time frankly, were the kids whose parents were inconsistent. The child wound up basically not knowing how to behave. Not surprising.
Yes. I've babysat several children over the years - was sought out to because they saw how I parented and wanted someone they could trust who would not abuse their naughty children - and this was the very hardest part. It took until Wednesday for those kids to have a good day. Mondays were a nightmare, resetting the standards of home (parents being "nice" and placating instead of parenting), Tuesdays were practicing and getting used to our expectations again, and Wednesdays through Fridays were smooth sailing. Man, those kids didn't want to leave, come Friday.
If I had a dollar for every time a parent would complain that their kids didn't do this, or wouldn't eat that, "couldn't.go.ANYWHERE," and they were having the HARDEST time potty-training at home, I could have bought a brand-new car. One little boy was potty trained after two days of me trying - when he was actually ready - and would be UNpotty trained by Monday. It took the morning to get him back. Very simple. Two years, his parents changed his diapers and cleaned up accidents with much frustration and yelling, every weekend. He didn't eat anything but chicken nuggets, canned peaches, chocolate milk, and carrots dipped in ranch at their house. At mine, he ate literally everything we did... and I make mostly NOT American food. He held my hand and listened when we were out because NOT doing so meant we were going home immediately. Peeing or pooping in his underwear meant that he'd have to (with my help and flat, non-reactive demeanor - not upset, just adding another bit of work to do) undress himself, get the wipes, clean himself and maybe take a bath, run the water to soak his underwear, put on plastic gloves to scrub it out with Dawn dish soap, rinse it, let it dry, etc. Guess what's easier than all of that work? Using the toilet. Guess what makes you remember to use the toilet? The memory of doing all that work if you don't. And you can't even be mad at Miss Liesl, because she isn't mad at you... it's just that you might miss storytime at the library with Miss June if you forget to use the toilet. And the other kids are going to give you shade, so to speak, because you doing this will cause THEM to miss out on storytime too. Don't be the kid who made everyone miss a good time. Sometimes, they'd remind HIM that he wasn't wearing a diaper... "Do you have to go?! Go make sure!"
So YES, most things ARE a deep-learning experience in childhood. That's why it's important to pay attention and give these situations the gravity they deserve.
eta: Another little boy had a self-harming-for-drama habit. He'd bang his head against ANYTHING, even the sidewalk, and had been kicked out by several daycares. The parents KNEW that I didn't use physical punishment ever. He'd be SAFE with me, at least, if I'd have him. It took him exactly 2 weeks, wearing a bike helmet the moment he walked in the door, for him to stop that. Wearing a helmet all the time was not only inconvenient but embarrassing. At some point - geez - he WAS going to be brain damaged. The moment he thrashed, the helmet went on for the rest of the day. We went to a waterpark one day and he couldn't go on the water slides because of the helmet. That was the last day he thrashed. He also - MUCH more quickly - learned to not cut himself on things on purpose or bite gashes into his fingertips. Miss Liesl would come along, again with the non-reactive demeanor, and have him wash the cut and then spritz hydrogen peroxide on his fingers so they wouldn't get infected. Air that out all day and unable to do anything fun. What did his parents do? Fall all over him with worry, bring him to child psychiatrists, used non-stinging creams, and buy the most fun, lovely bandaids of his choosing. WTH? He stopped after the first few days.
^^ The only child in the daycare who had a hard time resetting pretty quickly was a part time child. I felt bad for him. The other kids hated it when he was there.
^^ The only child in the daycare who had a hard time resetting pretty quickly was a part time child. I felt bad for him. The other kids hated it when he was there.
It's why I stopped watching other people's children. It wasn't fair, to my own kids, to have the first two days of the week be spent in various degrees of chaos (chaotic, by their standards) from that reset. Even though I did get $350/week for each one and only ever took one. Once my husband got his promotion and we didn't need the extra money anymore, I stopped. He appreciated not waking up to the Monday/Tuesday reset as well. heh.
::stomp, stomp:: Parenting is so HARD. It's almost like they need guidance all the time when they're young! Rules are yucky and if they aren't naturally inclined to behave, it's almost like I have to FIGURE IT OUT and LEARN how to parent THESE kids for who they ARE and not who I WANTED them to be! I thought I could just give them trinkets and minimize screen time, get them into early childhood education programs, and keep their schedules packed with activities so that other people could be the mean parents FOR me. I don't see my kids as often as I'd like - even though I arrange it to be that way - and don't want to be "mean" to them ::cough, PARENT THEM, cough:: when I do see them! I want to be the NICE parent. This being patient and learning how to parent thing is just so demanding of me and my time and people just don't like my kids (and if I'm honest, I don't either and need constant MNOs and use up the graciousness of neighborhood teensitters to manage week to week) like I expected them to. They're CHILDREN. Precious crotchfruits. Love them for their innocence and give them their toys so they don't have a fit when other people, including myself, get any attention whatsoever! :: pout::
"Liesl- you have such great kids. You're so LUCKY."
No. It had nothing to do with luck. It has been and continues to be a LOT of learning, failing, trying new things, and so.much.hard.work. All the time. I'm a better person for it and so are they. It won't be over until I'm dead. I will always have new things to learn and to let go of and to go after, with them. Because they're always changing and growing, so will I have to... and that's GREAT. Seriously. You're missing out and so are they, every.single.time you do the easier thing for the short term. Really.
Last edited by LieslMet; 04-08-2019 at 11:20 AM..
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