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Old 07-04-2019, 03:41 AM
 
Location: interior Alaska
4,475 posts, read 3,312,926 times
Reputation: 13767

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Travel CAN be educational, but please be honest with yourself about whether your planned travel is. There's a huge difference between an itinerary like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiGi603 View Post
When I asked my son's high school teachers and Principal for an excused absence to take him to Rome, they were all for it. They knew him standing in the Forum, the Colosseum, Vatican City, St. Peter’s Basilica,the Vatican Museums, Michelangelo’s Sistine Chapel, etc was more than what they could teach him out of a book. To boot--him figuring out the subway system!! Amazing!
versus a cruise or Disney or a trip to the beach.

Whether your kid can "get away" academically with missing a lot of class depends on the kid. If he's a good reader who's intellectually curious and is at or above grade level in key areas like math and writing, maybe being out of school isn't such a big deal. On the other hand, some kids have trouble keeping up even when they're doing daily academic work, or deal poorly with disruptions in routine. Again, this is an area where you really need to be unsparingly honest with yourself. It seems like most parents think their kids are above average academically, which is logically not possible.
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Old 07-04-2019, 04:13 AM
 
Location: Texas
43,533 posts, read 52,616,956 times
Reputation: 70755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas Vincit View Post
My opinion has always been...if you travel with your kids when they are under 7-8 years old you arent really doing it for them. A preschool kid doesnt care about this stuff. This is new parents trying to continue the lifestyle of childless college kids more than anything.

Also, I was on a transatlantic flight yesterday full of little kids and their millennial parents. It was a nightmare for the crew and other passengers. Little kids are ill-suited for the rigors of travel.
Do you actually know any kids?
Specifically 7-8 year olds?
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Old 07-04-2019, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Live in NY State, work in CT
9,026 posts, read 14,806,293 times
Reputation: 3387
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2x3x29x41 View Post
Given all the scheduled time off during a school year - summer, spring break, Christmas break - there shouldn't be any reason for missing weeks of school. Just do your globe-trotting when school is out.

As a teacher I completely agree with what you say. However, what I am finding is in this day and age, far more than in the past companies "reject" your long vacation time requests even with more than significant notice and tell you that you can only take off (at least for the length of time a trip like this requires) during certain times, which usually do not coincide with school breaks (except to some extent summer), but are times they seem to have less work that has to go to someone else. Somewhat surprisingly, this is actually more true with the high pressured, high paying professional jobs that can afford to take an international vacation than lower paying hourly jobs who can't. So reluctantly, my school has grudgingly accepted this knowing that sometimes it's the the only way a family can take a significant vacation.
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Old 07-04-2019, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Crook County, Illinois
3,492 posts, read 1,594,226 times
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In this day and age, schools are basically liberal indoctrination centers (LIC). With communal school supplies (with 40 pencils per student to be brought in), confiscations of "unhealthy" homemade lunches (read: a turkey sandwich without a lettuce leaf in it), sugar-filled Breakfast in the Classroom, bans on dodgeball in gym, and pumping the boys full of Ritalin, actual learning takes a backseat, anyway. So I'd much rather have my hypothetical kid visit a historic site (with "historic" being 1000 years old, rather than 100 years old) and actually touch the wall of a building he only heard of, rather than learn to recite the tenets of liberalism by heart. We lambaste Russia for "communism", yet we embrace its aspects for our schools. George Washington is turning over in his grave as we speak (post).

That said, there are truancy laws we gotta follow. Can't let the LIC's lose out on federal funding due to lack of student attendance. So I'd begrudgingly follow the letter of the law, and take my kid on vacations during Christmas and summer.
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Old 07-04-2019, 09:34 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,978 posts, read 102,527,356 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 Wishes View Post
As a teacher I completely agree with what you say. However, what I am finding is in this day and age, far more than in the past companies "reject" your long vacation time requests even with more than significant notice and tell you that you can only take off (at least for the length of time a trip like this requires) during certain times, which usually do not coincide with school breaks (except to some extent summer), but are times they seem to have less work that has to go to someone else. Somewhat surprisingly, this is actually more true with the high pressured, high paying professional jobs that can afford to take an international vacation than lower paying hourly jobs who can't. So reluctantly, my school has grudgingly accepted this knowing that sometimes it's the the only way a family can take a significant vacation.
I'm not sure what a "significant" vacation is. We've taken 3 week vacations to Canada and back east over the 4th of July, getting an additional day off in the process. That's plenty of time, even if you go to Australia!

And what I found in my area is that families also take time off during spring break in addition to go on trips, so the "can't get time off" is an excuse more than reality.
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Old 07-04-2019, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Denver CO
21,149 posts, read 11,754,604 times
Reputation: 32127
I agree that travel is educational, but I think that despite the downsides of traveling during school break times, that is what I've chosen to do, absent a single day here and there to be able to attend events like a family wedding or bar mitzvah, where we had to travel on Friday to be there for the event.

I think it's disrespectful to the teachers to basically say that they matter less than money, and it's a cop-out IMO when someone claims they are prioritizing the educational aspect of travel. Because it's not either/or, it's a choice to say that one prefers to spend less money, so yes, they are prioritizing money, not travel, over school.

And esp. as kids get older, trying to make up for missed work becomes more stressful for them, so once we hit middle school, even if I had been inclined to pull the kid out of school to travel, he's the one who would have objected. I'm not going to make his life harder so I can save some money.
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:09 AM
 
664 posts, read 144,768 times
Reputation: 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillennialUrbanist View Post
In this day and age, schools are basically liberal indoctrination centers (LIC). With communal school supplies (with 40 pencils per student to be brought in), confiscations of "unhealthy" homemade lunches (read: a turkey sandwich without a lettuce leaf in it), sugar-filled Breakfast in the Classroom, bans on dodgeball in gym, and pumping the boys full of Ritalin, actual learning takes a backseat, anyway. So I'd much rather have my hypothetical kid visit a historic site (with "historic" being 1000 years old, rather than 100 years old) and actually touch the wall of a building he only heard of, rather than learn to recite the tenets of liberalism by heart. We lambaste Russia for "communism", yet we embrace its aspects for our schools. George Washington is turning over in his grave as we speak (post).
I'm impressed that you could turn a travel discussion into ranting about 'communism' (which you seem to define as 'anything I don't like!').

It probably completely eludes you that virtually all airports serving airlines are 'communist' (by your definition - communal, government-funded and government-operated). But apparently, the sole reason that airports escape a rant from you is that you don't want to abolish them (remember, it's only 'communism' if you don't like it).

Carry on.
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:17 AM
 
973 posts, read 523,038 times
Reputation: 2138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Not my experience. Here in Colorado, fave places to visit are Hawaii and Mexico. These are beach vacations, with maybe a little educational activity thrown in. A fave US destination is California-ditto, plus Disney.
Is this a Colorado thing? It seems like every year I have 5-10 students miss because their parents got a deal on a cruise... Never have I had any student demonstrate learning from a family vacation despite my best efforts.

Personally I'm a big believer in educational travel... I just don't often see it done well.
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Crook County, Illinois
3,492 posts, read 1,594,226 times
Reputation: 4382
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
I think it's disrespectful to the teachers to basically say that they matter less than money, and it's a cop-out IMO when someone claims they are prioritizing the educational aspect of travel. Because it's not either/or, it's a choice to say that one prefers to spend less money, so yes, they are prioritizing money, not travel, over school.
It's not that teachers are less important than money, it's that schools spend more time indoctrinating liberalism and preparing for standardized tests than imparting actual knowledge. The noise-to-signal ratio with what's being taught is disgustingly high. Teachers are just pawns caught in the middle; they indoctrinate because failure to do so puts their jobs at risk. And they catch flack that schools as an institution should be catching instead.

At the same time, when teachers demand 40 pencils per student in their school supplies lists, and confiscate a student's perfectly good lunch for some dumb reason, my sympathy for them wears very, very thin.
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Old 07-04-2019, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Denver CO
21,149 posts, read 11,754,604 times
Reputation: 32127
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillennialUrbanist View Post
It's not that teachers are less important than money, it's that schools spend more time indoctrinating liberalism and preparing for standardized tests than imparting actual knowledge. The noise-to-signal ratio with what's being taught is disgustingly high. Teachers are just pawns caught in the middle; they indoctrinate because failure to do so puts their jobs at risk. And they catch flack that schools as an institution should be catching instead.

At the same time, when teachers demand 40 pencils per student in their school supplies lists, and confiscate a student's perfectly good lunch for some dumb reason, my sympathy for them wears very, very thin.
Seriously? Stop with the RWNJ crap and you aren't even a parent, so I'll give your parroted nonsense the value it deserves.
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