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Old 09-02-2019, 08:46 PM
Status: "Fall is in the Air!" (set 4 hours ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,302 posts, read 103,410,307 times
Reputation: 33360

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^^And I had a cousin in Wisconsin (note I said "had" not have) whose father was an alcoholic and let my cuz drink with him at a very young age. Cuz became an alcoholic and died youngish (50s).

This "demystifying" alcohol is a myth. The research shows the more the parents approve of drinking, and let their kids drink at home, they more they drink when they're out, too.
Mod note: Govt. website:
"Some parents wonder whether allowing their children to drink in the home will help them develop an appropriate relationship with alcohol. According to most studies this does not appear to be the case. In a study of 6th, 7th, and 8th graders, researchers observed that students whose parents allowed them to drink at home and/or provided them with alcohol experienced the steepest escalation in drinking. Other studies suggest that adolescents who are allowed to drink at home drink more heavily outside of the home. In contrast, adolescents are less likely to drink heavily if they live in homes where parents have specific rules against drinking at a young age and also drink responsibly themselves. However, not all studies suggest that parental provision of alcohol to teens leads to trouble. For instance, one study showed that drinking with a parent in the proper context (such as a sip of alcohol at an important family function) can be a protective factor against excessive drinking. In other contexts, parental provision of alcohol serves as a direct risk factor for excessive drinking, as is the case when parents provide alcohol for parties attended or hosted by their adolescents. Collectively, the literature suggests that permissive attitudes toward adolescent drinking, particularly when combined with poor communication and unhealthy modeling, can lead teens into unhealthy relationships with alcohol."
https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publicatio...od-alcohol-use

We fell into the category of allowing sips at special family dinners once the kids were in college.
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Old 09-02-2019, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Bay View, Milwaukee
2,244 posts, read 4,248,453 times
Reputation: 2897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
^^And I had a cousin in Wisconsin (note I said "had" not have) whose father was an alcoholic and let my cuz drink with him at a very young age. Cuz became an alcoholic and died youngish (50s).

This "demystifying" alcohol is a myth. The research shows the more the parents approve of drinking, and let their kids drink at home, they more they drink when they're out, too.
Mod note: Govt. website:
"Some parents wonder whether allowing their children to drink in the home will help them develop an appropriate relationship with alcohol. According to most studies this does not appear to be the case. In a study of 6th, 7th, and 8th graders, researchers observed that students whose parents allowed them to drink at home and/or provided them with alcohol experienced the steepest escalation in drinking. Other studies suggest that adolescents who are allowed to drink at home drink more heavily outside of the home. In contrast, adolescents are less likely to drink heavily if they live in homes where parents have specific rules against drinking at a young age and also drink responsibly themselves. However, not all studies suggest that parental provision of alcohol to teens leads to trouble. For instance, one study showed that drinking with a parent in the proper context (such as a sip of alcohol at an important family function) can be a protective factor against excessive drinking. In other contexts, parental provision of alcohol serves as a direct risk factor for excessive drinking, as is the case when parents provide alcohol for parties attended or hosted by their adolescents. Collectively, the literature suggests that permissive attitudes toward adolescent drinking, particularly when combined with poor communication and unhealthy modeling, can lead teens into unhealthy relationships with alcohol."
https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publicatio...od-alcohol-use

We fell into the category of allowing sips at special family dinners once the kids were in college.
The excerpt you posted from the NIAAA/NIH site seems to say that the research results are mixed, with "most studies" weighing in against under-aged drinking at home, and "other" (fewer) studies showing that the practice does not necessarily have to "[lead] to trouble." The final statement tries to reconcile these two strands of research by qualifying the context of permissive attitudes ("particularly when combined with poor communication and unhealthy modeling") and by using the word "can" ("can lead teens into unhealthy relationships with alcohol").

So yeah, in a lot of cases, attempts to demystify alcohol don't work out well, but in some cases they do (or "can") work out well. The problem is, there is no formula or recipe for making it work out well, so it's probably best to err on the side of caution and not risk it. I'm not sure why the "demystifying" practice worked out well with me, but it did--perhaps because communication was good and I was exposed to healthy modeling?
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Old 09-02-2019, 10:22 PM
Status: "Fall is in the Air!" (set 4 hours ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,302 posts, read 103,410,307 times
Reputation: 33360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Empidonax View Post
The excerpt you posted from the NIAAA/NIH site seems to say that the research results are mixed, with "most studies" weighing in against under-aged drinking at home, and "other" (fewer) studies showing that the practice does not necessarily have to "[lead] to trouble." The final statement tries to reconcile these two strands of research by qualifying the context of permissive attitudes ("particularly when combined with poor communication and unhealthy modeling") and by using the word "can" ("can lead teens into unhealthy relationships with alcohol").

So yeah, in a lot of cases, attempts to demystify alcohol don't work out well, but in some cases they do (or "can") work out well. The problem is, there is no formula or recipe for making it work out well, so it's probably best to err on the side of caution and not risk it. I'm not sure why the "demystifying" practice worked out well with me, but it did--perhaps because communication was good and I was exposed to healthy modeling?
I think you're reading too much into your own situation. What works for one does not necessarily work for everyone.
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Old 09-02-2019, 10:41 PM
 
576 posts, read 204,732 times
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Keep in mind that the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, which gives money to lots of things, HATES alcohol, so they could be giving money to the NIAAA/NIH.
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Old 09-03-2019, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
9,006 posts, read 7,274,139 times
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Statistics don't paint the entire picture. An alcoholic parent who jokingly lets their kid sip from their beers for years is likely failing their kid in multiple ways, along with showing them a distorted view of alcohol.

A parent who has established a strong household for their children, with support and care in all aspects of their lives who allows sips as well is much more likely to speak positively of this technique after their kids have grown up.
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Old 09-03-2019, 06:05 AM
 
1,052 posts, read 248,694 times
Reputation: 3780
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
^^And I had a cousin in Wisconsin (note I said "had" not have) whose father was an alcoholic and let my cuz drink with him at a very young age. Cuz became an alcoholic and died youngish (50s).
Who here is advocating letting very young (your term) children drink?

Also, the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
This "demystifying" alcohol is a myth. The research shows the more the parents approve of drinking, and let their kids drink at home, they more they drink when they're out, too.
Mod note: Govt. website:
"Some parents wonder whether allowing their children to drink in the home will help them develop an appropriate relationship with alcohol. According to most studies this does not appear to be the case. In a study of 6th, 7th, and 8th graders, researchers observed that students whose parents allowed them to drink at home and/or provided them with alcohol experienced the steepest escalation in drinking. Other studies suggest that adolescents who are allowed to drink at home drink more heavily outside of the home. In contrast, adolescents are less likely to drink heavily if they live in homes where parents have specific rules against drinking at a young age and also drink responsibly themselves. However, not all studies suggest that parental provision of alcohol to teens leads to trouble. For instance, one study showed that drinking with a parent in the proper context (such as a sip of alcohol at an important family function) can be a protective factor against excessive drinking. In other contexts, parental provision of alcohol serves as a direct risk factor for excessive drinking, as is the case when parents provide alcohol for parties attended or hosted by their adolescents. Collectively, the literature suggests that permissive attitudes toward adolescent drinking, particularly when combined with poor communication and unhealthy modeling, can lead teens into unhealthy relationships with alcohol."
https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publicatio...od-alcohol-use
And who here is advocating plying middle schoolers with alcohol?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
We fell into the category of allowing sips at special family dinners once the kids were in college.
And did they all become raging alcoholics? Because moderate, supervised amounts of alcohol at an adult (albeit under 21) or near-adult age is what is being referenced in this thread, as far as I can see.
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Old 09-03-2019, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Bay View, Milwaukee
2,244 posts, read 4,248,453 times
Reputation: 2897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
I think you're reading too much into your own situation. What works for one does not necessarily work for everyone.
Actually, your last statement here is exactly my point, as based on the NIAAA/NIH blurb. There are examples of failure and success when it comes to supervised under-age drinking at home. We shouldn't read too much into any person's specific experience, but rather look at all of the data.
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Old 09-03-2019, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Upstate NY 🇺🇸
36,645 posts, read 10,850,278 times
Reputation: 34763
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-fused View Post
I would much rather a parent make the decision on if their kid can have a drink than what the State says and what the State imposes as some arbitrary age.

Parents are in a better position. People are different and mature differently and handle things differently. There are also cultural factors to consider.

This all assumes a responsible and reasonable parent.

You're right, of course, but The State (ours) does NOT prohibit consumption of alcohol in the home, under the parent's supervision. (I'm not referring to the "Social Host Law," which is an entirely different issue, or the purchase of alcohol.)

In fact, the majority of states "allow" (Thank you, Massa) it.
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Old 09-03-2019, 11:19 AM
Status: "Fall is in the Air!" (set 4 hours ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,302 posts, read 103,410,307 times
Reputation: 33360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airborneguy View Post
Statistics don't paint the entire picture. An alcoholic parent who jokingly lets their kid sip from their beers for years is likely failing their kid in multiple ways, along with showing them a distorted view of alcohol.

A parent who has established a strong household for their children, with support and care in all aspects of their lives who allows sips as well is much more likely to speak positively of this technique after their kids have grown up.
Don't break your neck falling off your high horse! What about these families where one kid becomes an alcoholic and the others don't? What's your explanation for that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2x3x29x41 View Post
Who here is advocating letting very young (your term) children drink?

Also, the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.



And who here is advocating plying middle schoolers with alcohol?



And did they all become raging alcoholics? Because moderate, supervised amounts of alcohol at an adult (albeit under 21) or near-adult age is what is being referenced in this thread, as far as I can see.
1. Most people have not specified an age when they started letting their kids have "sips", and more. Actually, the plural of anecdote IS data. Lots and lots of anecdotes make a data set. Ex: It was 100 degrees in Denver yesterday; that's an anecdote. The average high in Denver for September 2 is 84. That latter is based on many, many years of September 2 temps.

2. See above, plus the statistics show that drinking is happening in the middle schools. I posted some links.

3. My kids are not raging alcoholics, no. I'm not going to say anything more about them to protect their privacy. They don't like me talking about them on CD.
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Old 09-03-2019, 11:23 AM
Status: "Fall is in the Air!" (set 4 hours ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,302 posts, read 103,410,307 times
Reputation: 33360
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguitar77111 View Post
Keep in mind that the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, which gives money to lots of things, HATES alcohol, so they could be giving money to the NIAAA/NIH.
Do you haven any evidence of that? Please post it, if so. The NIAAA/NIH are government agencies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Empidonax View Post
Actually, your last statement here is exactly my point, as based on the NIAAA/NIH blurb. There are examples of failure and success when it comes to supervised under-age drinking at home. We shouldn't read too much into any person's specific experience, but rather look at all of the data.
Maybe I should have posted this separately: "Collectively, the literature suggests that permissive attitudes toward adolescent drinking, particularly when combined with poor communication and unhealthy modeling, can lead teens into unhealthy relationships with alcohol." In most families, not every kid becomes an alcoholic. Often, IME, it's just one (of two or three or more).
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