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Old 08-28-2019, 01:49 PM
 
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"But you know what , l haven't know all that many happy high achieving women and that life isn't really her either, it just isn't."

- I know a ton of high achieving women who are incredibly happy. In fact, they are all happier than their counterparts who settled for marriage and kids. Statistics back this up. So, I don't know what kind of women you know or if you are just making assumptions about whether someone is happy or not

"The last thing is , man it's weird to me , my 18yr old girl , looking at a career. You know , it's just weird how girls come out of school now and are expected to choose a career . l know it's been like that for a long long time , but with your own daughter it really hits home."

-Is it weird to you that boys come out of school and are expected to choose a career? If not, then you are not the person to give any advice to you daughter.

Honestly, you sound like kind of a sexist jerk.
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Old 08-28-2019, 03:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sassybluesy View Post
Ya know...there are ways to 'dabble' in art, and maybe make some money. My son's girlfriend designs tshirts, and sells them online. I have no idea how much she makes, but I've bought a couple of them.


Also, she should maybe check out https://www.deviantart.com/ and see if there's anything there that she'd be interested in. If you've never heard of www.deviantart.com don't let the name scare you. It's not like that.


My son and his girlfriend have posted artwork there and sold some stuff.


This would be a way that she wouldn't have to fully commit her whole life or livelihood to, but it might give her an indication (and side money.)



Haaa, no way that name would scare me , cool name, your talking to an ex artist here haha.
But thanks for that and yeah she's been poking around in all that stuff for years now, and funny, we were talking about T shirt a year or two back. l use to do a few Album covers myself.


Hat of to your sons gf , good for her. l think d will probably go along those lines with something too herself. l did say it'd be a great idea to do something on the side like that especially these days witht he internet. Rather than the full time starving artist route l went myself back when.
But then , if your young you can live on rice as long as you have too, l didn't get back into my art until l was 35 but by then l was married and having kids , so it wasn't an ideal time to be going without.


Thanks again.
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Old 08-28-2019, 05:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sassybluesy View Post
Maybe just...hang out and talk about it in normal conversation. I'm trying to put myself in her shoes, and I think I'd appreciate feedback that didn't pressure me into making a decision. It seems like you have a lot of valuable business experience...that maybe someday, will come in useful for your daughter, and maybe THAT'S what you can communicate to her. Let her know that the world is her oyster, and she has a lot of options, and if you think of some options, throw some of your ideas her way, but with the understanding that ya'll are just talking, and that mostly, if she NEEDS help, you're there for her.



Thanks for that sassy . Yeah we do a lot of that too actually so that's nice to hear it may help a little.
What l've asked here wasn't about pressure or "now lets sit down and work this out " type thing , hell no . not my style or hers and you couldn't anyway.
But yeah , we do just talk about it a lot lately , and that's actually why l started the thread , because l don't wanna say the wrong thing or influence.
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Old 08-28-2019, 05:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BirdieBelle View Post
The point of education IMHO really isn't the grades and specific classes. It's the exposure to new ideas, which it sounds like is what she really needs right now.

Sure, she could follow your path and try to make her way, but since she literally has NO IDEA what she wants to do, exposing herself to more people and ideas will help her fit on that one thing she enjoys.

In the end, while she can use guidance from you, it's up to her.



Thanks for that birdie.
And yeah , that's a long the lines of what l think. l'd just love her to do something she loves , but also something where she uses that intelligence of hers and doesn't struggle too much.
But it'd be great if she could settleinto something steady too , yaknow.
As you see l've done a lot of things and hey l've done bloody well too better than most, especially in lifestyle which is really what matters to me. Mind you, divorce set me back to square one 7yrs years ago and lead into some damn hard years but back on track these days.



But you know what , lf l could have time over, doing something steady that l loved doing all these years, is what l'd choose. Art was my real calling , but as l found out l hated the lifestyle and the scene.
Lucky is a man that's found his work, right.


My dad said to me when l finally got into art , he found he's calling at 22, but he's so happy to see l finally got back to mine. Didn't have the heart to say but eh , dad if you encouraged me to go into my art at 18, instead of telling me there's no money in art till your dead, then l would've, but l didn't say it.lt really upset him when l decided to quit art, but the art world and life is a hard thing to explain, but basically that side of things l just didn't like.

Last edited by hawk101; 08-28-2019 at 05:38 PM..
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Old 08-28-2019, 05:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RationalExpectations View Post
It is important to think about the characteristics of an adult occupation for which she might be well suited. As a very bright young girl, she probably has the curse of talent. If you're only good at one thing, well, that's what you do. If, like your daughter, you're good at many things, well, you have to decide.

At the same time, it is important not to look merely at today's occupations but to guess about tomorrow's as well, and be prepared to learn. Indeed, as a hiring manager over many decades, I frequently focused on (a) does a candidate have a positive attitude? and (b) does the candidate have the ability to learn independently?

Read this short anecdote:

***

120 years ago at the turn of the century, over 60% of the US population was directly involved in agriculture, farming, and ranching. Today, it is less than 4%.

Imagine that you could go back in time to 1900 & tell learned academic scholars, politicians, journalists, futurists, and business leaders that in far-off 2019 less than 4% of the nation's population would be directly involved in agriculture.

Then imagine you asked them, "What do you think all the other people will do for a living in far-off 2019?"

Chances are none of those educated leaders would guess:
  • "network engineer,"
  • "geneticist,"
  • "web designer,"
  • "search engine optimization engineer,"
  • "industrial robot tech,"
  • "radiologist,"
  • "professional MMA fighter,"
  • "professional football player,"
  • "cinematographer,"
  • "sound engineer,"
  • "microprocessor architect,"
  • "telemarketer,"
  • "City-Data forum moderator",
  • "cryptocurrency miner",
  • "social media marketer",
  • "physical therapist",
  • "occupational therapist,"
  • "solid state physicist,"
  • "CPU architect,"
  • "mortgage broker,"

-- and the like.

We don't know what the future holds -- it is exceedingly difficult to forecast the future.

How hard is it to forecast the future? Take the Great Manure Crisis of 1894.

Nineteenth-century cities depended on thousands of horses for their daily functioning. All transport, whether of goods or people, was drawn by horses. London in 1900 had 11,000 taxi cabs, all horse-powered. There were also several thousand buses, each of which required 12 horses per day, a total of more than 50,000 horses. There were countless carts, drays, and wagons, all horse-powered and all working constantly to deliver the goods needed by the rapidly growing population of what was then the largest city in the world. Similar figures exist for any great city of the time.

The problem of course was that all these horses produced huge amounts of manure. An adult horse will on average produce 37 pounds of manure and 2.4 gallons of urine per day... In New York in 1900, the population of 100,000 horses produced over 2.5 million pounds of horse manure per day, all of which had to be swept up and disposed of. The city smelled like the inside of a modern day outhouse cooking in the Las Vegas sun.

The problem did indeed seem intractable. The larger and richer that cities became, the more horses they needed to function. The more horses, the more manure. Futurists of 120 years ago estimated that in 50 years every street in London would be buried under nine feet of manure. Moreover, all these horses had to be stabled, which used up ever-larger areas of increasingly valuable land. And as the number of horses grew, ever-more land had to be devoted to producing hay to feed them (rather than producing food for people), and this had to be brought into cities and distributed—by horse-drawn vehicles.

It seemed that urban civilization was doomed.

In 1898 the first international urban-planning conference convened in New York; one of its goals was to figure out what to do about all the horse manure. The conference was abandoned after three days, instead of the scheduled ten, because none of the delegates could see any solution to the growing crisis posed by urban horses and their waste output.

Obviously, the trend that couldn't go on forever. And, well, it didn't.

So when we collectively think about career guidance for the next generation, we need to focus on baseline skills, attitudes, and the ability to learn. It is highly likely that when your daughter is 40 years old, there will be many new & exciting careers that we can only guess at today. In the late 1890s, many tens of thousands of people were employed in the collection and removal of horse manure from the streets of major cities. Just two decades later, the total number of people employed doing that had cratered to a tiny fraction of peak manure-removal employment, as the invention of the internal combustion engine and gasoline powered automobiles, buses and trucks solved the problem of horse manure. All those unemployed manure-removal laborers didn't sit around and whine; they all found other ways to add value to society and thereby earn a living. Any career for which your daughter aspires today will morph in the future into something we barely recognize or it will cease to exist.

The future is brighter than it ever has been. The question is: what to do?

****
While she is figuring out what she DOESN'T want to do (important!), at the university level, in preparation for a lifelong career, I'd counsel every undecided young person to get a solid technical foundation coupled with a solid communications foundation. I'd suggest a year-long sequence in mathematics (probably calculus), chemistry, physics, software engineering, economics, accounting, communications, and creative writing. I'd suggest they study a major language or two (at least to the level of conversational proficiency) among the most widely spoken languages in the world (Mandarin, Hindustani, Spanish, Arabic, Malay and Russian.) I'd counsel them to spend a portion of their early career in B2B commissioned sales, and also in product management.

Of course, along the way, she may find her passion...





Ahhhh, l had to chuckle at this one.
It is a curse , it's been my curse all my life too, l'm good at many things , and so is she. She's as smart as hell, an incredible artist, as clever as they come, can make all kinds of crap, has a brilliant business mind , all kind of makes this stuff harder really actually doesn't it , l mean where do you even begin .


l didn't have her educational type of intelligence , hated school it was just wasting my time l thought, spent all those years just waiting for it to be bloody over so l could get out there and my teeth stuck into the real world.
But l was very clever , very smart and very artistic , bad mix , better to be just good at one thing if you ask me haha.


Thanks for the great post .
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Old 08-28-2019, 09:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NJBoy3 View Post
Exposure - My parents exposed me to many things. In the end I thought I was making my own choices. Maybe I was but the exposures they gave me both good and bad help me make intelligent decisions.



Thanks for that . But so them exposing you to many things didn't confuse you or take from your own direction ?


As you should gather from my post, my d's been exposed to many things through me too , and that actually worries me .
Maybe too many .
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Old 08-28-2019, 10:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by hotzcatz View Post
On a more practical level, ask her how she imagines she's going to pay her mortgage/rent and expenses as a functional adult. Fine art is nice and all, but I'd guess most fine artists have side jobs in service occupations or some other income. Graphic artists can always do fine art on the side until the fine art starts to pay more than graphic art.


If she wants to do something online, well, go to it. Online is available to all age groups and education levels.


If there's some way to monetize her passions, that could be a happy world for her. So, what is she passionate about and how can she make money from it?


Nothing says you have to be only one thing, either. And many folks make different career choices over a lifetime.



Yeah thanks for that .
And as you'd see l've had many myself , they say people have 3careers in a lifetime now where as it use to be one. Funny really, such is the world and change these days l guess.
Anyway, good idea thanks and yeah the sort of thing l've been thinking too and we've talked about a lot. Nice to know someone else thinks it's ok , l haven't been sure.


This threads been a huge help people too btw , and l just wanna thank everyone so far too.
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Old 08-28-2019, 10:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CarnivalGal View Post
"But you know what , l haven't know all that many happy high achieving women and that life isn't really her either, it just isn't."

- I know a ton of high achieving women who are incredibly happy. In fact, they are all happier than their counterparts who settled for marriage and kids. Statistics back this up. So, I don't know what kind of women you know or if you are just making assumptions about whether someone is happy or not

"The last thing is , man it's weird to me , my 18yr old girl , looking at a career. You know , it's just weird how girls come out of school now and are expected to choose a career . l know it's been like that for a long long time , but with your own daughter it really hits home."

-Is it weird to you that boys come out of school and are expected to choose a career? If not, then you are not the person to give any advice to you daughter.

Honestly, you sound like kind of a sexist jerk.





Well , apart from this one that is , and right when l was feeling all warm and fuzzy too.
But eh , l expected someone would come along and blow that line apart , no surprises. Only that it didn't happen sooner.

Thanks for the kind words anyway, and you sound like the typical defensive type and with a bee up your backside.
Where was l , ahh yes. Well l hope l'm not, l've got 6 sisters 4 of which are millionaires and none of them have ever called me a ,what was that again, oh yeah. And of far far more weight to me , neither has my own daughter or ex w, or gf.
Anyway nah , l've known many women , in all walks , but eh , that's just been an observation. And no one was saying a house wife was any better , as a matter of fact , if you comprehended my post , l'm actually on here asking career advice , well of sorts, for my own daughter.

Ahwell , l suppose this is about where the thread starts to go down hill and turns into a circus, but hey , it's been very helpful and nice while it lasted.
Thanks for the lovely chat , as you were

Last edited by hawk101; 08-28-2019 at 10:22 PM..
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Old 08-29-2019, 02:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by hawk101 View Post
Hi people.
As in the title, she's 18, just finishing school and thinking about uni courses.
There's quite a few different angles in this so all l can do here is try to explain.
Firstly, from a dads point of view , my lifes been far from conventional.
l only had a few jobs when l left school quit all of them and at 22 started my own business.
l've never liked working for a boss or the restrictions of the typical job thing.
Well, it's had plenty of ups and downs,good times and bads in the 30yrs since but l've pushed through to live the way l like to live,
So l'm not all that good on jobs and careers, l made my own. But it's not the norm or for most people.
So yeah l know a lot about starting your own business and that lifestyle and the perks and problems .
But l don't want to influence her in any way because it's not for most people and frankly, a job and a wage is a better thing anyway in all the practical senses.

2ndly, she's not sure what she wants to do, well it took me a good few yrs to figure that out for myself too, so l just don't how to help on that one.

3rdly, she's and extremely good artist. but l was and artist myself for 13yrs and l didn't really like the life and it's very hard to unless your successful . But it's also a lifestyle and frame of mind and frankly l was happy to get out of it and back to the real world,
On that one l've suggested if she does wanna go into art then a career , graphic design or something is better really because it's a job and a good wage .
But she's like me, she doesn't wanna do anyone else's art, she wants to do her art and thing the way she wants it, well that's what l did and it's as l said above, to me anyway. And it's a hard life for most too, wouldn't wish that on her..
Sooooo, l dunno wth to say on the art front either.

4thly she is extremely intelligent and very very clever and she gets A's and A pluses, so she's a very smart cookie. l mean she could do anything and it's sort of a sad waste if she didn't.
But you know what , l haven't know all that many happy high achieving women and that life isn't really her either, it just isn't.
So in being true to myself, l dunno what to say there either as l just want her to be happy and hopefully true to herself and doing hopefully something she just loves doing.

All in all , l don't feel equipped to help , and although she's always admired my lifestyle and the way l make my own rules and my own boss, at the same time again , as l said above .
So over all, l feel like l should just keep my mouth shut because what l've done and lived is me , but it's not the norm and really, the norm is in most ways a better path.
lt's safe , steady, pays and hopefully well, you've got some security and back up and paid holidays and there's a lot to be said for it.
Problem is she's far more like me than her mum, whom is the job kind, nice and steady and safe. But eh she doesn't like it and she's still working like a dog- we're divorced.

The last thing is , man it's weird to me , my 18yr old girl , looking at a career. You know , it's just weird how girls come out of school now and are expected to choose a career . l know it's been like that for a long long time , but with your own daughter it really hits home.

Anyway , make of all that lot what you will if you made it this far and l appreciate it, but if you have any thoughts and tips , l'd love to hear them and thanks in advance.
First, it's her life to live and her decision on how she will do that. I find it odd that you have not stated what she wants to do; have you had no conversations about that over the past eighteen years? That time should have been one of discovery and trial. She should have been testing many different waters and finding out which to abandon and which to dive deeper into.

I would suggest that she takes a year or two off from school and get a job to support herself and use her spare time to explore that which she should have been exploring for so long already. If that is art, that's fine; if it's meteorology, that's okay too. The important thing is she learns how to gauge how her future would be involved in those fields. Perhaps she is not as lost in the clouds about it as you are and believe she is. Talking about it in general terms would be a start.
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Old 08-29-2019, 04:53 AM
 
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l find it odd that you haven't read yeah , we talk about it all the time, and just tonight too as a matter of fact.
How the hell could you have missed that , it's everywhere.


Thanks
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