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Old 08-29-2019, 06:42 AM
 
1,207 posts, read 1,551,829 times
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The thing is, and I think you understand this with some life perspective now, your dad might have fumbled the wording when he sat you down and discouraged you from going into art because it's hard to earn a living in it... but there's some truth to that, too. (I say this as a former fine arts major.)

My friends who majored in the artsy side of the arts... well, pretty much zero of them were able to support themselves in the arts after graduation. They all had to get a master's degree in something else, or take a job selling insurance or something that had zero to do with their degree. My friends who majored in the side of the arts that's in demand as far as the job market? Found jobs.

So, my advice would be to talk to her somewhat practically. You want to pick something to do in life that you enjoy, absolutely! But you also need to pick something that's going to earn you a decent wage, because having money makes life a lot more enjoyable (!) and leaves you free time to pursue hobbies you love. It's a fair compromise between passion and reality.

So a graphic design degree, if she thinks that's something that might interest her, would open some doors. She could use that to get a 9-5 job at a company after graduation. Or she could use it to freelance and start her own business online designing all sorts of stuff. And if fine art is her passion, it doesn't mean closing the door on that, but could rather mean she does that on the side. And if that ever became lucrative enough that she no longer needed her graphic design degree? Great. You haven't crushed any dreams. But she would have something solid bringing in a steady income in the meantime.
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Old 08-29-2019, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Maryland
1,992 posts, read 646,635 times
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I didnít really know what I wanted to do when I started college. I was sort of leaning towards something with literature because I liked poetry, reading novels, etc. However, I had also long been fascinated by the natural world. I decided that, regardless of my major, I could always enjoy literary works but I thought that it would be more difficult to deeply understand the living world around me without some course work. It worked out well for me in the long run and itís the choice I would make again. I think being a biologist is a wonderful thing to be. So, I would say these things will work themselves out based on exposure to and experiences in the learning environment.
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Old 08-29-2019, 09:48 AM
 
791 posts, read 510,327 times
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Do a gap year. My son was not sure either after graduating. So he went to work until he decided. She should work during the gap year and build up a savings. Also continue to pursue art outside of work during that time. Start an Etsy and FB page dedicated to her art only and sell some on the side. She will get better at her craft and a little something about marketing and business. Who knows it might take off. Set the goal at one year and see if the path more clear. Whatever you do, DO NOT start accruing debt at a college while "figuring it out".
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Old 08-29-2019, 10:56 AM
 
7,237 posts, read 3,991,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk101 View Post
l find it odd that you haven't read yeah , we talk about it all the time, and just tonight too as a matter of fact.
How the hell could you have missed that , it's everywhere.


Thanks
I missed it because it's not there. Your long first post talks about lots of things but your experience discussing her future with your daughter is strangely absent.
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Old 08-29-2019, 11:56 AM
 
758 posts, read 462,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoColts View Post
When my kids told me they had no idea what they wanted to do I asked them to think about what they didn't want to do or what kind of lifestyle they didn't want. When you can do that then you're on your way to deciding where you want to go with your life.

I think that this right here is great advice.
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Old 08-29-2019, 03:31 PM
 
2,214 posts, read 937,231 times
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I think it makes sense for her to get a job in a large government or private organization after high school. Or else go to an art school for a course in art. Art may be her passion, but it might or might not work out. She will be able to tell pretty quickly. I briefly wanted to be an artist at one time. When I brought my best piece to an art buyer, he offered me $25 for it which was less than I paid for the canvas, frame and paints. It brought me quickly to reality, but at least I know I tried and failed. It was obvious to me that I needed a decent paying job to have a decent life.

I entered university right out of high school and quit after 10 weeks and went to work full time at a government office. After working for 9 months as a mail clerk, seeing how people with degrees were making more money and doing less work, I was motivated to go to a different college and I finished in 4 years while living at home and in my own apartment in my last year, paying for all of it on my own by working part time and full time in the summer and getting a few small student loans.

The fact is that 95% (I majored in liberal arts, Political Science) of what I learned had no value to me in life, but the piece of paper, the diploma, did. It opened doors for me.

At university I planned to be a lawyer, but after getting my BA and completing the first year of law school I changed my mind. I floundered for about a year then relocated to NYC where the diploma got me a start in a large corporation. I worked in various positions at two corporations in NYC, got married, started a family, bought a house. I always enjoyed my work but didn't love it. Also I recognized all the nonsense that goes on in corporations, the politics, the bad decisions, the disregard for employees and customers and even the job for the sake of rising up the corporate ladder. But I stuck it out. At 42, after being demoted from a manager's position I held for 7 years, I got to do what I truly loved, when a position opened up to head up a conversion to automated drafting, and be responsible for the new system.

My last 20 years at work were the best. I've been retired for 11 years and doing well without having to work. It shows you can't always know how things will work out. But if you keep trying, maybe you will get what you want.

I was never given any career advice by my parents. I had to figure it out for myself through trial and error. But I did get two very good pieces of advice at work which turned out to be true.

The first was from a boss I had a feud with for a while which we patched up over drinks at a bar near work. He said he would not help me but wouldn't stand in my way either. He was true to his word. The advice he gave me was "You can get most everything you want in life, but it takes a lot longer to get than you want it to." And I did and it did take longer than I wanted it to.

The second piece of advice was at a management retreat. The leader told me I wasn't cut out to be a manager, I should find myself a niche in a technical area where I could excel, and I did. Shortly after the retreat I was demoted and then after a year in limbo I got the opportunity to head up the computerized drafting project, and I jumped at the chance. It felt like being thrown off a bus and landing in a Rolls convertable.

Good luck with your daughter, it seems she needs a good dose of reality before she will find her way, like I eventually did. It's unfair to expect most kids to know how to navigate life with nothing but a high school experience to guide them. But the high schools and colleges don't care, they are mostly there for the benefit of the teachers and the administrators, not the students. When I graduated from university, before going to law school I took a free alumni aptitide test. Turns out I should have been a landscaper or a printer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk101 View Post
Tbh , the mere thought of any more education that isn't actually achieving something like whatever she decides to do, would make her sick right now.
She's been saying all year she doubts she'll ever use this year or the last, in anything.
And l must admit she's got a point, l never have, been running a business over 30 years, trading shares and buying and selling property, l also run a few of my own rentals and owned my own art gallery but all l've ever needed is the most basic of maths and English.

lronically she gets A plus's in maths and English but says she'll never ever use the garbage they teach past yr 10, ever. ln her opinion the only good it's doing is giving her the marks she wants to get into the course she wants.
Now what do l say to that . !

Last edited by bobspez; 08-29-2019 at 03:39 PM..
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Old 08-29-2019, 03:44 PM
 
Location: around
754 posts, read 258,122 times
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Thanks for those people there's some great stuff in there, muchly appreciated.
l know what your sayin kit , had friends over the years in all kinds of sitches , one is 51 now and still living in a one br flat and broke, wouldn't wish that in anyone.
We've talked a lot about something on the side instead , and women artists are brilliant at self promoting too . Personally yeah l agree doing her own thing just on the side could work out really well for her , and yeah maybe even some free lancing too , while earning some money with something else.
lf l had my time over l'd work and do my art in my spare time until if or when it started paying.
We've talked about that a lot and she does like that idea, she's too smart to live on rice for 10yrs haha, she wants money and to be independent too so that's a great thing.
Hey les , a biologist sounds like a brilliant place to be for you , nice to hear you found your thing and the way you feel about it, nothing better. l do miss that feeling.
Eh loud , nice idea , yeah she is considering all those angles and personally l think it'd be something like the way to go. lf l know her, if she just takes this year off they way she's been thinking, she'll come up with something brilliant , it's how she ticks.
It's all over the place nutty but anyway who gives a rats , more important crap to think about and thanks again to all.

Anyway she was just saying last night actually how much she's missed her art this year, she did a triple year in art last year, 11, 12 and advanced, which is the final 3yrs in art subjects all in one year. But she didn't realize so in year 12, now there are literally no more art classes left, funny really, she's cleaned out the school in art haha. So she's been missing it but with hw , exams hasn't had time to do any art. Anyway she's thinking of dabbling around a bit when she can with a website, fb, deviant or something and putting out in some of her stuff on the side while she finishes this year, quench the thirst haha, l think it's a great idea myself.


Thanks again to all. Cheers

Last edited by hawk101; 08-29-2019 at 03:53 PM..
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Old 08-29-2019, 03:54 PM
 
16,039 posts, read 19,918,643 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk101 View Post
Hi people.
As in the title, she's 18, just finishing school and thinking about uni courses.
There's quite a few different angles in this so all l can do here is try to explain.
Firstly, from a dads point of view , my lifes been far from conventional.
l only had a few jobs when l left school quit all of them and at 22 started my own business.
l've never liked working for a boss or the restrictions of the typical job thing.
Well, it's had plenty of ups and downs,good times and bads in the 30yrs since but l've pushed through to live the way l like to live,
So l'm not all that good on jobs and careers, l made my own. But it's not the norm or for most people.
So yeah l know a lot about starting your own business and that lifestyle and the perks and problems .
But l don't want to influence her in any way because it's not for most people and frankly, a job and a wage is a better thing anyway in all the practical senses.

2ndly, she's not sure what she wants to do, well it took me a good few yrs to figure that out for myself too, so l just don't how to help on that one.

3rdly, she's and extremely good artist. but l was and artist myself for 13yrs and l didn't really like the life and it's very hard to unless your successful . But it's also a lifestyle and frame of mind and frankly l was happy to get out of it and back to the real world,
On that one l've suggested if she does wanna go into art then a career , graphic design or something is better really because it's a job and a good wage .
But she's like me, she doesn't wanna do anyone else's art, she wants to do her art and thing the way she wants it, well that's what l did and it's as l said above, to me anyway. And it's a hard life for most too, wouldn't wish that on her..
Sooooo, l dunno wth to say on the art front either.

4thly she is extremely intelligent and very very clever and she gets A's and A pluses, so she's a very smart cookie. l mean she could do anything and it's sort of a sad waste if she didn't.
But you know what , l haven't know all that many happy high achieving women and that life isn't really her either, it just isn't.
So in being true to myself, l dunno what to say there either as l just want her to be happy and hopefully true to herself and doing hopefully something she just loves doing.

All in all , l don't feel equipped to help , and although she's always admired my lifestyle and the way l make my own rules and my own boss, at the same time again , as l said above .
So over all, l feel like l should just keep my mouth shut because what l've done and lived is me , but it's not the norm and really, the norm is in most ways a better path.
lt's safe , steady, pays and hopefully well, you've got some security and back up and paid holidays and there's a lot to be said for it.
Problem is she's far more like me than her mum, whom is the job kind, nice and steady and safe. But eh she doesn't like it and she's still working like a dog- we're divorced.

The last thing is , man it's weird to me , my 18yr old girl , looking at a career. You know , it's just weird how girls come out of school now and are expected to choose a career . l know it's been like that for a long long time , but with your own daughter it really hits home.

Anyway , make of all that lot what you will if you made it this far and l appreciate it, but if you have any thoughts and tips , l'd love to hear them and thanks in advance.
Sit down with her and tell her everything you've written here. She sounds like a good kid that knows her own mind....and you likely wouldn't want her any other way.

Remind her that at 18 you often don't know exactly what you want to do forever, career wise....That in part is the blessing of education....it gives you a chance to explore your interests. As far as a make do job...there are several that might be good for a girl....and if you have connections use them to get her into a part time position.

Encourage her to explore all of her options...and explore her interests. When she identifies her interests she might consider volunteering in areas of her interest as well. That can give her experiential learning and opportunity for insights.

You sound like a supportive caring father....that is a wonderful person to be for your children....That love and support will be there as she makes her way into adulthood and full independence. Biggest issues with young adults is to keep communication open...love them, encourage them to soar.
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Old 08-29-2019, 05:56 PM
 
Location: I live in reality.
1,072 posts, read 984,379 times
Reputation: 1954
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk101 View Post
Hi people.
As in the title, she's 18, just finishing school and thinking about uni courses.
There's quite a few different angles in this so all l can do here is try to explain.
Firstly, from a dads point of view , my lifes been far from conventional.
l only had a few jobs when l left school quit all of them and at 22 started my own business.
l've never liked working for a boss or the restrictions of the typical job thing.
Well, it's had plenty of ups and downs,good times and bads in the 30yrs since but l've pushed through to live the way l like to live,
So l'm not all that good on jobs and careers, l made my own. But it's not the norm or for most people.
So yeah l know a lot about starting your own business and that lifestyle and the perks and problems .
But l don't want to influence her in any way because it's not for most people and frankly, a job and a wage is a better thing anyway in all the practical senses.

2ndly, she's not sure what she wants to do, well it took me a good few yrs to figure that out for myself too, so l just don't how to help on that one.

3rdly, she's and extremely good artist. but l was and artist myself for 13yrs and l didn't really like the life and it's very hard to unless your successful . But it's also a lifestyle and frame of mind and frankly l was happy to get out of it and back to the real world,
On that one l've suggested if she does wanna go into art then a career , graphic design or something is better really because it's a job and a good wage .
But she's like me, she doesn't wanna do anyone else's art, she wants to do her art and thing the way she wants it, well that's what l did and it's as l said above, to me anyway. And it's a hard life for most too, wouldn't wish that on her..
Sooooo, l dunno wth to say on the art front either.

4thly she is extremely intelligent and very very clever and she gets A's and A pluses, so she's a very smart cookie. l mean she could do anything and it's sort of a sad waste if she didn't.
But you know what , l haven't know all that many happy high achieving women and that life isn't really her either, it just isn't.
So in being true to myself, l dunno what to say there either as l just want her to be happy and hopefully true to herself and doing hopefully something she just loves doing.

All in all , l don't feel equipped to help , and although she's always admired my lifestyle and the way l make my own rules and my own boss, at the same time again , as l said above .
So over all, l feel like l should just keep my mouth shut because what l've done and lived is me , but it's not the norm and really, the norm is in most ways a better path.
lt's safe , steady, pays and hopefully well, you've got some security and back up and paid holidays and there's a lot to be said for it.
Problem is she's far more like me than her mum, whom is the job kind, nice and steady and safe. But eh she doesn't like it and she's still working like a dog- we're divorced.

The last thing is , man it's weird to me , my 18yr old girl , looking at a career. You know , it's just weird how girls come out of school now and are expected to choose a career . l know it's been like that for a long long time , but with your own daughter it really hits home.

Anyway , make of all that lot what you will if you made it this far and l appreciate it, but if you have any thoughts and tips , l'd love to hear them and thanks in advance.
Sometime all you need to do is listen. At 18, most kids brains still have not fully developed so their likes change 'with the wind'. Nothing wrong with that. Also, like me, she may have several career paths before she settles into one. I have been a hand-dipped candle maker (business owner x 10 yrs), a Paramedic, a RN x 40 yrs, and in my retirement am in school to get my Real Estate license. I knew at age 9 I wanted to be a Nurse. I've had a full & fun life. When I look back, our 20s are for testing careers out and finding what we love to do (if we are lucky). So, just sit back and listen to her and what she is passionate about. Don't judge. At that age if you do so, they go right TO what you dislike. That frontal cortex is fully developed about 26yrs old and things start to come together for most kids.
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Old 08-29-2019, 06:56 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
13,959 posts, read 8,776,670 times
Reputation: 20372
Hearing an 18 year old declare that she will "never use anything she learned during her last year" and allowing that statement to go unchallenged is a serious, serious mistake. All kids say that, and all kids should be challenged when they do.


Two things:
How incredible boring, limited and uninspired is someone who knows ONLY what they have to know to get by?
How could she possibly know what she needs to know? It was precisely 4 months from the time I studied trigonometry until the navy was teaching it to me again as I went to electronics school. The grammar and vocabulary she learned in school will be useful for the rest of her life. Sounding as if you did not finish or did not pay attention can be deadly.
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