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Old 11-28-2019, 01:25 PM
 
2,888 posts, read 1,090,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterseat View Post
There was a tragic story/ experiment on a twin boy who was badly damaged during circumcision. The decision was made to raise him as a girl. It was a horrible life. He knew he was a boy.

When he was an adult he had a lot of attention in the media. He was married with a family. He ended his own life.
There were also a lot of cases studied in Canada, in which the babies were born with sort of ambiguous genitalia and the doctors (and, presumably, parents) decided what gender they were and provided whatever surgery was necessary to make them appear closer to normal for that sex. Many grew up knowing something was terribly wrong but not knowing what it was.

In an early edition of Ms. Magazine (early 1970s) they published "The Wonderful Story of Baby It". The plot line was similar to the cited article; the parents dressed the child in a mix of clothes, provided a mix of toys, and refused to tell anyone its gender. I agree that that's extreme and wouldn't do it myself (and would have a big issue if DS and DDIL were doing that with my grandchildren). The motivation was interesting. It was to keep people from making assumptions about the child. Boy? He likes to wrestle, likes trucks, might be an athlete, might grow up to be a scientist or a firefighter or a doctor. Girl? Dress her in frilly things, she's nurturing, she'll like dolls, she'll be a mother someday. Stereotypes were a lot more common then but they still exist and sometimes it's hard for even the most enlightened of us to let go of them, and we have to.

Just last year the local grade school had a sign outside about "Pirate and Princess Day". I cringed. It was pretty much forcing boys and girls into separate categories. What little boy would dress like a princess and what little girl would dress like a pirate, even if they wanted to? Imagine the ridicule.
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Old 11-28-2019, 02:49 PM
 
6,973 posts, read 3,267,583 times
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I raised my boys to enjoy their childhood. We did encourage their choices in habits and good decision making.
In an age where we tend to celebrate our individual tastes ..I find it counter productive to not guide them thru their embracing their birth gender.
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Old 12-03-2019, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Colorado
13,077 posts, read 7,906,698 times
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I am not one to claim that the spectrum of gender expression and identity is a matter of delusion or mental illness, as some (on this site and elsewhere) do. I know a number of trans people, and they are generally wonderful human beings and I find them completely valid in who they are.

But when it comes to kids...

I don't think that there is any harm at all, in using the pronouns of the gender presumed/"assigned"/whatever at birth, until such a time when the child is grown enough to express it if they feel otherwise. I don't think that there is a NEED for gender neutrality, and it's more likely to cause them difficulty in interacting in a mostly-cis world, than anything. I think that transgenderism is the minority, and accepting that is not condemning of it. As such, I think that if a parent simply supports their child if a time comes that they reveal to the parent that they are trans, that is probably plenty good enough for the child's mental health, without trying to convolute the world around the kid into using they/them pronouns from birth. I also don't think that there's anything wrong with making the assumption that your kid is heterosexual unless/until such time as they tell you otherwise. So long as you're loving and supportive, if/when that day comes.

But when it comes to clothing and toys... The extreme gendering from really young ages is a relatively new social phenomenon. It is mainly a matter of identity-marketing, a symptom of our capitalism. Just a few generations back, toddlers all wore gowns, male and female alike. And children did not get barraged with shiny heaps of plastic and candy every holiday, either. What I really wish is that parents would simply try to recognize and appreciate their children's individual strengths and passions.

I'm a 40 year old woman who has never wanted to be male. But the "girl toys" that I was given were not to my liking. I did not understand how to play like a girl. I watched a friend do these soap opera style role-play sessions with Barbies and it just made me feel terribly awkward. I was jealous of my male cousins for the toys they had, again, while having no desire to be male, I just wanted to play with their cool stuff. They had castles and knights, He-Man had an awesome green cat, and I loved their LEGO sets. Instead of dolls, I was forever wishing that people would give me science toys and building toys. My Dad had a train set, and I wasn't allowed to touch it. That sucked! So even without any gender dysphoria going on, I forever felt like my parents wanted me to be someone that I wasn't, and did not like or love me for who I was. And as an adult, I've kept them at a certain distance, and formed closer bonds with unrelated people that I feel at least "get" and accept me.

Thing is, no matter what training we try to give our kids, they have a way of becoming whoever they will become. My point is to focus less on trying to push them this way and that way, and just accept and encourage them as they show you who they are. They will find ways to do this, no matter what clothes you put on them, what pronouns you call them, or what toys you give them.
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Old Yesterday, 09:40 PM
 
Location: US
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I agree. Psychologically, children need to recognize themselves, they need to identify themselves with one of the parents (let's imagine, we have a classic male-female family). If it's a boy, sooner or later, he'll understand, that he looks more like his father and this process is extremely important for the future of a child.
If parents prevent natural processes by force, it may lead to serious mental problems.
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Old Today, 07:58 AM
 
2,888 posts, read 1,090,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I'm a 40 year old woman who has never wanted to be male. But the "girl toys" that I was given were not to my liking. I did not understand how to play like a girl. I watched a friend do these soap opera style role-play sessions with Barbies and it just made me feel terribly awkward. I was jealous of my male cousins for the toys they had, again, while having no desire to be male, I just wanted to play with their cool stuff. They had castles and knights, He-Man had an awesome green cat, and I loved their LEGO sets. Instead of dolls, I was forever wishing that people would give me science toys and building toys. My Dad had a train set, and I wasn't allowed to touch it. That sucked! So even without any gender dysphoria going on, I forever felt like my parents wanted me to be someone that I wasn't, and did not like or love me for who I was.
Wow. I was born in 1953 and I have to give credit to my parents- my sister and I had "equal access" to Tinkertoys, Lincoln Logs and Dad's ancient metal Erector set. She and I did make tons of clothes for our knockoff Barbies (and also made our own), but the skills she developed led to the faculty suggesting she go into surgery when she was in Medical school. (She chose OB/Gyn, which involves plenty of it.) I've always found most dolls creepy. Still do.
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