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I just attended a luncheon yesterday, and I was seated opposite a mother, her crying toddler, and another lady. There was also a crying baby on the other side of the room. Not only was there crying during the presentation, but during lunch while we were waiting for dessert, the toddler opposite me put a bag over his head. The mother and the other lady commented on how silly the boy was for putting a bag over his head, but the mother never removed the boy, so I was forced to look at the boy with the bag over his head. A luncheon is another event that should be spared from childish and obnoxious behavior.
I hear what you are saying . . . and agree with you . . . but the root of this is that A. a parent should not bring a child to an event when he/she is too young to behave and B. a parent should leave the room if necessary, should they have a rowdy child in tow. Doesn't matter WHY the child is rowdy.
This is common sense. Do not put your child into a situation where he/she will fail!
Whatever you do dont punish youre Child for Miss-behaving or having TEMPER Tantrums in Public. Let them scream, throw themself arround, call you names.... throw stuff.....
But . . . you do take your child out if he/she is disturbing others, don't you???
In a movie? Absolutely. I can't even actually go to a movie with my 21mo old son. Why? Because He would NEVER sit through it. It's a sacrifice I have to make as a parent. I love movies. I used to go at least once a week. Since I became a father a few years back I'm lucky if I go once a year.
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Originally Posted by rewpup
You mean that you let your child ruin the dining experience for others and don't bother teaching him/her proper etiquette when eating at a restaurant? I sure hope I'm not sitting next to you the next time I go out to a nice restaurant.
As toddlers go my son is generally well behaved but there are times when he is not. If he's just intolerable then we leave but if he's just generally fussy, as he is 60% of the time, he stays. Sorry but I'm not going to walk away from a meal because my child is behaving as a child normally does. Children generally do not act like adults. It's a fact.
As far as teaching proper etiquette? I would gladly teach them if they had the capacity to learn it. There are some things a small child will not understand no matter how you tell them. My two older girls get it...well the younger one is 4 and is starting to get there. We eat dinner at the dining room table every night without the TV on. This is training for when we go out to eat in public. It isn't like etiquette is something that happens overnight. I can't just say to my son, "Etiquette" and have him say in return, "Oh Etiquette! I get it now! Thanks Daddy!".
You have very high expectations if you expect a 2 yr old to use proper etiquette or you expect parents to teach it at a rare night out for dinner. It's something that takes years.
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Originally Posted by cocoaday
I couldn't sit there eating a meal out if my kids were acting out in some way. My fork would go down and I would be out of there, with my child explaining why they had been removed from the table.
And that's your choice to make. If I had to make that choice every time my kids made a fuss at dinner I'd go out to eat as often as I went out to the movies. Is it acceptable behavior? No. Do I make an effort to correct their behavior? Of course.
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Originally Posted by Aconitum
First of all, I don't know if I even want children (what I've seen of children's behavior these days just makes me sick & makes me not want children). Second of all, just because I don't HAVE them, doesn't mean I don't have experience with them. My cousins have children, my uncles & aunts have children, my friends have children.. I've watched their children extensively & have been around them extensively. I also know what my mom did with me.
I am not at all insinuating that kids behave on command, because I know that is definitely not the case, but you know, people are flat out rude if they sit there & yell at their kid(s) at the dinner table in a restaurant, or at a movie. They're also rude if they just let the child(ren) scream & whine & act up & stuff in a public place, where other people are trying to enjoy their meals or enjoy a movie. People should teach their children that they need to be quiet & be on their best behavior in public... And if my kid was ever acting the way some of these people's kids do, I would be so embarrassed & ashamed that I'd have to leave. I definitely wouldn't have the nerve or audacity to sit there & yell at my kid & further irritate people. I'd cup my hand over the kid's mouth, to quiet them down & take them to the bathroom, spank them & tell them that they can either behave properly, or we're leaving & the don't get the treat of eating out, because bad behavior doesn't get rewarded. People that don't control their children ruin other's meals & stuff, which isn't fair to those other people. They should not have to suffer, just because some people can't (or WON'T) control their kids. I swear, it's like people forget that THEY are the parents & that the children HAVE to listen to them!!! Children are NOT supposed to be the ones controlling the situation! The PARENTS are!
I am also not suggesting that people who have young children can't go out to eat anywhere. What I am suggesting is that when your children are screaming, crying, being loud/obnoxious & you're getting dirty looks from people, you need to do something about it. Take the kid to the bathroom or something & discipline them & teach them about proper behavior in public places. If you don't believe in spankings, fine.. But the kid should be reprimanded in some way & made to understand that their behavior is not appropriate for public settings.
You talk a good game but you don't have kids...and based on what you've just said at the begining of the post maybe you shouldn't have any. If you aren't prepared to deal with everything they can throw at you then you should just go on with life without kids. As someone once told me, "6 Billion miricles is enough for me" (meaning: There are enough people in the world without me bringing more into it)
Why are you trolling the parents forum when you have no kids yourself?
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Originally Posted by anifani821
Of course that is what you would do. Children have to learn that their behaviors do have consequences. Parents should not have children unless they are fully aware that their lives may get turned upside down and inside out like a pretzel when it comes to dealing w/ children. I am constantly amazed at how parents say things like "that would mean I would not enjoy my meal." Uh, right, you produced these kids . . . you are responsible for reining them in, teaching them self control, manners, respect. And if you take a child out to dinner at a time when he/she is exhausted and has a melt-down - well, bad judgment. You should be protecting the child from himself - he/she cannot help being worn out and cranky. It is always the parents' responsibility to put the child's needs and interests first. If that means missing a meal, a movie, a social event - OH WELL.
So of course you would take your child out. I am totally baffled and feel I am in an altered universe when I see a parent who has put a child in a difficult situation (taking them shopping when the child needs a nap; putting off meals; dragging them out when they should be in bed, etc) . . .and then yells at the kids or ignores the behavior. It is mom or dad's responsibility to protect a child from those situations - and protect the PUBLIC from disruptive behavior, as well.
KIDS WILL BE KIDS!!! But seems that a lot of times . . . parents are not willing to be parents!!!
Right kids will be kids. And....I'm a parent to my child in every situation through thick and thin. Kids, especially toddlers, will have a melt down when you least expect it. They've had their nap, they've had plenty of play time, they've not missed a meal, they're in an otherwise festive environment.....and bam....they just flip out for virually no reason at all (See post below).
But right....I was being a bad parent for wanting to take them out to eat or shopping. Forgive me 'public'! I have failed you by allowing you to view my child having an unexplained melt down. Please hold your ears and avert your eyes so your face doesn't melt off or something.
When our oldest was 2 or 3 she once grabbed a hand full of rice and threw it across the table and then launched her plate off in the floor. My wife pulled her out of the high chair and took her to the bathroom to disipline her. An old woman who witnessed it actually had the gaul to tell her to 'leave that child alone'. So really you can't win for losing here. We can't even teach our kids right from wrong without some jackass butting in. So in that woman's opinion she should have just cleaned up the mess and not said a word to the child to correct the behavior.
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Originally Posted by suzie02
Since I am the parent of a toddler and in the middle of tantrums I will chime in. Tantrums are not predictable. Yesterday I picked my daughter's clothes and brought them downstairs. She saw them and crying grabbed them and took them back to her room. Out of the blue for no good reason. After she calmed down, she picked something else and wore it without any issues. Today I pulled yesterday's clothes out of her closet and ask her. "Is this OK?", and she said "yeah". Go figure what goes in her mind.
Memorable tantrums we'd had:
1) Right in the immigration area as soon as we got our passports checked. She threw herself on the floor. Quite a scene. But you have to let it run its course or it escalate
2) Once she wanted a screw that was loose at one of those Costco clothes tables.
3) The day I brought my son home from the hospital she wanted to take him into the tub with her. To this day she think he is her property.
4) The most recent one, she didn't want to give our passports to the police at passport control in Madrid. They thought it was cute thankfully.
I can go on and on.
BTW I consider her a good kid that I can take anywhere. She never runs off and once even lectured another kid for touching a Christmas tree at a Church. She never met this kid before. I have taken her to the dentist with me where she just sat in a chair with her colors and her notebook.
For those of you without young children, you have to understand that we build a tolerance for noise and sometimes we don't notice.
With that said I agree that some parents do have out of control children.
Suzie is picking up what i'm laying down here. The behavior isn't acceptable. Nobody is disagreeing here. But your intervention as a parent can sometimes just escalate the situation instead of making it better. Even the best of kids will have a melt down. It's normal. Eventually they will grow up. And you'll be able to disipline them and explain that it isn't ok. But until they get to the age where they understand what you're saying it's absolutely pointless to them and does not one bit of good. The attempt to correct the behavior is all for show for you people that are watching the situation. The only thing you can do is just leave with them if it gets out of control.
To give you an idea of the sorts of things I witness from day to day. My son was in the middle of an epic meltdown because he wanted to open his own oatmeal bar. He didn't want me to do it for him. He wanted to do it himself. He does not know how to do it himself. But I gave it to him anyway so he could give it a go. Of course then he had an even larger meltdown when he couldn't get it open. So I try to help him....meltdown. OK....it's time out time. So I take him to his time out spot and he's flip flopping around like a fish on the deck....and keeps that up for a solid hour. Then it all got quiet and I went in there and he looks up, smiles, and says, "Hi, Daddy!".
Kids will be kids.
We can't expect kids to behave for prolonged periods of time.
And the last wedding I was able to attend was my own.
Noone ( me anyway) has a Problem with Kids at Restaurants.... we have Problems when Parents cant/wont/dont make their Kids behave.
Went out little while ago had a group of soccer Kids, and ALL their Parents
I kidd you not these Kids were not babys these were AT least 10 years old. These Kids threw silverware, Paperwads, climbing over/under/arround the Tables /Chairs. They got SO LOUD we could not even HEAR US talking. And here sat the MOMS, with their Fancy Drinks HIDING behind their MENUS!!! I kidd you not, they were HIDING behind their Menus.
Finally I told the Waiter this is a BAR and GRILL it is 7 pm, you would think you wouldnt have to put up with THIS NOISE. Either you tell them to calm down these Kids or we are leaving and you can cancel the Food order!
He went over there and also the Manager and told the *Moms* to PLEASE settle down the Kids. Their Response " We have the same right to be here as the stuck up People" They can leave if they dont like it !
Neatless to say, there was more then JUST US leaving.......
Finally I told the Waiter this is a BAR and GRILL it is 7 pm, you would think you wouldnt have to put up with THIS NOISE. Either you tell them to calm down these Kids or we are leaving and you can cancel the Food order!
He went over there and also the Manager and told the *Moms* to PLEASE settle down the Kids. Their Response " We have the same right to be here as the stuck up People" They can leave if they dont like it !
Neatless to say, there was more then JUST US leaving.......
If the Manager allowed just ONE true customer to walk out as a result of these "alleged" moms, then the manager has no right to expect that the real customers will EVER come back.....one can only hope that the "MOMS" and their "BRATS" eat and drink enought to support the entire place.
I have a lot I could say here, but I won't say it b/c I don't think it would serve the purpose I intend. I am the age of most of your mothers, LOL. There is a lot of advice I could give parents, based not only on my life experiences . . . but in talking w/ other moms . . . in teaching . . . and in seeing how children "turned out" and knowing what types of family situations they came from (knowing their parents well, watching the kids grow up, etc).
I have four adult stepchildren, and I don't even give them suggestions (I helped raise two of the four) even when I clearly see that the parents are doing things that are setting up the very situations they are later mystified about (tantrums, meltdowns, disrespectful teens, etc).
So all I am going to say is . . . I know that basically, all parents are doing the best they can - the best way they know how. Of course, there are situations w/ mentally ill parents, impaired parents, etc. But overall, most parents are doing the best they know how to do.
However, just b/c you are doing the best you know how to do . . . it doesn't mean you are really DOING THE BEST THING for your child's growth and development. Unfortunately, kids do not come w/ a training manual . . . and if they did . . . each manual would be different!!! Those of you who have several children know what I mean - each is a unique individual - what works w/ one may not work w/ the other . . .
So I will just leave it at this. It is easy to get defensive about how we handle our children, especially when we are conscientious parents and DOING OUR BEST. But a word to the wise: if someone has pointed out something to you, as a parent, that may be a "problem" in the way you are handling your child . . . listen to them. Yes, there is plenty of bad advice out there . . . and each circumstance is different . . . but you know - time and experience have taught me that often "there is a better way." Parents should learn from each other . . . and not get defensive and not be so certain that they have all the answers . . . cause none of us do. You may learn you are NOT handling things the "best way" for your child . . . you may find you are actually making things harder on yourself (and your child) than necessary - by the way you are responding to your child, or guiding your child . . .
Threads like these always make me think whether I was just lucky, or I have abnormal kids. Neither one of them had a meltdown at a restaurant, a church, a grocery store, a school function, a wedding, or anywhere that I can remember. The younger one who was a tad more cranky when tired would whine but then would just go to sleep when extremely tired. I mean, at his own baptism, he had a full blown ear infection and a 103 degree fever and he did not even cry in church. There was no food throwing, food grabbing, toy wrestling while they were 1 & 3, 2 & 4, 3 & 5, etc.
We went out to lunch many years ago with a friend of mine, her husband, and their daughter who was the same age as mine. While waiting for our order, she picked up the straw, blew water at her parents, tried to get my daughter to do the same thing, while my daughter sat still in her chair stone deaf to all this, and actually asking my husband for help. She was five then! My friend's husband finally had it, but instead of calling out his daughter told his wife under his breath "Would you do something about your daughter?! She is an embarassment." Well, needless to say, my friend just ignored her husband's suggestion and we all had to endure a rather tense luncheon.
Perhaps my kids just sensed from us that it would not be tolerated. If they are unwell, that is entirely a different story, but then even after each of their surgeries as very young children (7 months and 5 years old), I truly cannot recall a meltdown and a tantrum despite the pain and discomfort. Maybe some kids are just wired that way and that parents cannot 100% control the situation without making severe lifestyle changes to their own lives.
Maybe some kids are just wired that way and that parents cannot 100% control the situation without making severe lifestyle changes to their own lives.
You hit on a very good observation here, in my opinion. Yes, some children are wired that way, and some children are also hyper sensitive and become quite distressed as well as get hyped up themselves.
And your last statement - about parents having to make severe lifestyle changes . . . oh yes yes yes. I am in total agreement w/ this. That is at the crux of a lot of the "in public" behavior problems that occur. If a child cannot handle being in a restaurant, then the parents should not be taking that child w/ them to a restaurant. Plain and simple. And if that child has a melt-down in the restaurant, the parents should leave. Again, plain and simple. The decisions a parent makes about what kinds of situations they put their children in tells as much about the parents as it does about the child's behavior/training. If a child cannot tolerate (or is not ready for) various public events/outings, then the parents might as well put a big sign around their necks saying "My needs are more important that yours - and more important than my own child's."
No one said raising kids was going to be CONVENIENT or COMFORTABLE. Just ask parents of special needs kids how that has impacted their lives.
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