Transitioning to Grown Children (divorced, parents, wife, girls)

[mordant]

I'm curious about the part of parenting that seems least talked about: the part where they are out of the nest.

My 26 year old son has fallen into a pattern in the past couple of years: he never calls me unless he's looking for money.

My 33 year old daughter and I had a prickly relationship for years after she left home, and only lately have cobbled together something reasonably civil.

My 20 year old step-son and 18 year old step daughter (both in college) cannot be bothered to wish their mother a happy birthday, even by email, even when I remind them to do so.

I am not asking any particular question here but other than complaining about boomerang kids, I don't see much discussion of what it's like to parent grown children. Of course, they have their own lives, and our role is much reduced. The empty nest is a time to get your own life back, and doing so is probably the best thing you can do for your grown children. However ... both my wife and I feel quite often that we with the level of complexity, indifference, or disrespect we endure at times at the hands of our children, we might as well not have bothered. I mean, we love them unreservedly, but that's exactly the problem. You can't love someone and not have at least some minimal expectations. We feel discarded, taken for granted, and used more often than anything else.

We are not the stereotypical 1950's empty nesters yearning to live vicariously through our children, lusting for grandkids. We have a life. We travel. We have friends. We have jobs. We do charity work, have two dogs and a cat, and take long walks, etc. We don't sit forlornly by the phone, counting the days since the last call and wondering why there are so many. But ... we do feel ... deflated.

The youngest, the 18 year old, is by far the worst. She is rude, self-absorbed, and her Mom barely knows her anymore. She can be very cruel and cutting. She's an A student, doesn't do drugs, isn't promiscuous. But she's just nasty and disrespectful in the extreme. Seems to enjoy breaking Mom's heart. She has a better relationship with her biological Dad, but I've seen her treat him shamefully too. He just rolls over and takes it. She treats me okay, other than beating up my wife, of course, which makes me very conflicted and confused. Prior to a couple of years ago she was fine. I assume it's a hormonal stew of some kind, but it's by far the worst I've seen or heard of. And no, she refuses to talk anything out. She literally tells you to shut up.

So how have others coped with the transition to adulthood in your kids? Anyone else feel like something went south at a time when you're supposed to be basking in the glow of a job well done?

[no kudzu]

Actually it is discussed a great deal on this forum but not lately. Look in the non-romantic relationships forum for a different point of view from the young adults themselves.

Read Walking on Eggshells. This book deals with this difficult phase of parenting and can be quite helpful. if people are honest they will tell you how difficult it can be and I don't believe anybody is completely immune.

As far as asking for money this is what we did. We had our kids take out student loans and apply for scholarships for college. We did not want to go into our retirement savings for their education. But what they did not know is that we had saved money for college and would eventually pay off their loans AFTER they got their degrees. This way they would work hard for their educations and not take college for granted. They both said later they appreciate how we handled it but assured us they would not have partied all through college otherwise.

At a certain point we learned to tell them upfront that their was no more money coming and that since we had 2 younger ones to raise and educate they should not expect much if any of an inheritance. If you keep bailing them out they won't learn to make it on their own.

As far as basking---well I don't think any parent stops worrying and fretting over their kids no matter how old they get. To expect them to be grateful is a waste of time really. And today there is such a sense of entitlement but I fear parents only have themselves to blame.

So decide now is your time. Get the youngest on her own and concentrate on yourselves and let them sink or swim. Hard to do but we can't keep beating ourselves up when they don't turn out exactly as we thought they would.

[Mattie]

OP, do you call your kids? We are sure to hear from our two in college, at least twice a month, when they call to remind me to deposit money into their accounts. I don't really need the reminder, but I have never let on, since, otherwise, I may not hear from them for weeks. I do keep up with them on Facebook, and will send an occasional text message but I don't fret if they don't respond for hours, or even days. It happens, and they have pretty full schedules.

It sounds like all the kids involved had their parents marriages break up. That could definitely affect your relationship if they are harboring resentment over it. I think the fact that you and your wife are keeping busy doing your own thing is very important. My husband and I try to do the same thing, just to keep from missing the boys so much. It is nice to have the focus back on our relationship though.

If you only hear from the 26 yr old if he's looking for money, I'd let it be known there is none to spare.

[thethreefoldme]

How often do you call your children? They might not be aware that it is a problem for you & just assume you are as busy as they are. You could try leading by example. If you start calling every other week just to let them know you love them & are thinking about them, the more it will become a habit to talk regularly with you. I wouldn't expect my kids to put more effort into relationship maintenance than I do -- providing for them them financially doesn't count.

I would not assume the 18 year old is just dealing with hormones. I wouldn't be surprised if she has some unresolved issues with her mother from divorce & she needs help learning how to communicate & cope with those in healthy ways.

[mordant]

Originally Posted by no kudzu

Read Walking on Eggshells. This book deals with this difficult phase of parenting and can be quite helpful. if people are honest they will tell you how difficult it can be and I don't believe anybody is completely immune.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Originally Posted by no kudzu

As far as asking for money this is what we did. We had our kids take out student loans and apply for scholarships for college. We did not want to go into our retirement savings for their education. But what they did not know is that we had saved money for college and would eventually pay off their loans AFTER they got their degrees. This way they would work hard for their educations and not take college for granted. They both said later they appreciate how we handled it but assured us they would not have partied all through college otherwise.

As for my step kids, their biological father is responsible in the divorce decree for their college education and he actually does a pretty good job of stepping up to the plate. Though he is an odd mixture of close-to-the-vest secrecy about his finances, such that he never really gives the kids a clear answer ("we'll see") when they ask for something, and then particularly with the daughter he just blusters but ultimately caves to her demands. This is one of the hard things about divided households, it's difficult to set boundaries when, inevitably, the other household is not entirely on the same page. The biological Dad is low-level wealthy and it's easier to cave than to take a stand. He buys his way out of conflicts. By contrast Mom quit working to devote herself to her kids and she seems lame to the kids in that she does not contribute in a big way to household income, and therefore to their college education or peripheral expenses.

Originally Posted by no kudzu

At a certain point we learned to tell them upfront that their was no more money coming and that since we had 2 younger ones to raise and educate they should not expect much if any of an inheritance. If you keep bailing them out they won't learn to make it on their own.

I've done that with my daughter and it resulted in us barely speaking to each other for years (her choice). She just mooched off her in-laws instead, and still does to this day, even though she recently divorced. They know at some level it's the only way they'll get to see the grand kids. In this respect my daughter does not do me proud. Very reminiscent of her biological mother -- just not as narcissistic and without the craziness. At any rate largely through the conciliation efforts of my current wife, my daughter and I have somewhat normalized our relationship, though we are still wary of each other. She's learned not to talk about money, including not to whine about how she doesn't have enough. There's that.

My son is a little different story, he's borderline Asperger's and in some ways his ability to function as an adult is a bit behind the bell curve so I'm always doing a tightrope walk between keeping him at a basic level of functioning and yet allowing him to make his own mistakes. We're 2,500 miles from each other, too.

Originally Posted by no kudzu

As far as basking---well I don't think any parent stops worrying and fretting over their kids no matter how old they get. To expect them to be grateful is a waste of time really. And today there is such a sense of entitlement but I fear parents only have themselves to blame.

Yes and no. Particularly for children who are really social, from middle school on, their peer group holds more sway than anything else, with teachers and society a close second. In some important respects I feel that public schools foster a sort of Lord of the Flies scenario where kids reinforce each other's immaturity and then the school system tolerates it if for no other reason than that they have limited resources and liability concerns about pushing back. Nor does the current testing culture help. My step kids regularly stayed up studying until 2 and 3 am most days and so did 100% of their friends.

I can tell you that while neither of us was perfect, we had pretty healthy boundaries and were good parents. But even great parents can only compete so much in practice with all that other stuff.

Originally Posted by no kudzu

So decide now is your time. Get the youngest on her own and concentrate on yourselves and let them sink or swim. Hard to do but we can't keep beating ourselves up when they don't turn out exactly as we thought they would.

Yes, that is basically what we do, but I have to admit, as much as I love my kids, if I had known it was going to feel like this I would have spared myself. It was a lot of sacrifice and hard work for a big steaming pile o'the brown stuff, as far as I'm concerned. Once in awhile the sun breaks through and there are nice moments, but they are so few and far between that it's hard not to involuntarily grovel for them. And even the appearance of neediness becomes a perceived weakness they want to exploit -- particularly my daughter and stepdaughter. The boys are much easier to deal with, and it's relatively easy to imagine that they will mature in time out of some of their behaviors. We worry about our girls though, and about the kinds of persons they have become. As with all things, I guess one just lets go.

[mordant]

Originally Posted by Mattie

OP, do you call your kids? We are sure to hear from our two in college, at least twice a month, when they call to remind me to deposit money into their accounts. I don't really need the reminder, but I have never let on, since, otherwise, I may not hear from them for weeks. I do keep up with them on Facebook, and will send an occasional text message but I don't fret if they don't respond for hours, or even days. It happens, and they have pretty full schedules.

I feel it's more incumbent on and appropriate for them to call than for us to call. Even if I didn't think that way I don't want to be seen as a helicopter parent. Still, we call on occasion. The boys seldom pick up the phone. The girls may well say it's a bad time and will call back when it's more convenient. So it goes.

Originally Posted by Mattie

It sounds like all the kids involved had their parents marriages break up. That could definitely affect your relationship if they are harboring resentment over it.

We're sensitive to that and particularly with the girls this is a factor in the mix. I have made headway with my daughter because she's willing to talk things out. The stepdaughter is terrified of anything that's not black and white and utterly refuses to talk anything out, preferring to make and adhere to simplistic snap judgments about Other People. I think she will soon become physically ill from anxiety and may be forced into therapy.

Originally Posted by Mattie

If you only hear from the 26 yr old if he's looking for money, I'd let it be known there is none to spare.

I am starting quite a push-back there but as always it's not that simple. He just got laid off again, he's moving, and he's fighting depression. It's a balancing act. Sometimes he holds on to his independence by his fingernails, both financially and emotionally.

[mordant]

Originally Posted by thethreefoldme

How often do you call your children? They might not be aware that it is a problem for you & just assume you are as busy as they are. You could try leading by example. If you start calling every other week just to let them know you love them & are thinking about them, the more it will become a habit to talk regularly with you. I wouldn't expect my kids to put more effort into relationship maintenance than I do -- providing for them them financially doesn't count.

I would not assume the 18 year old is just dealing with hormones. I wouldn't be surprised if she has some unresolved issues with her mother from divorce & she needs help learning how to communicate & cope with those in healthy ways.

Thanks for the reply. I think I addressed your observations in other replies, but I'd add that I did ping the step kids and remind them to send Mom a birthday greeting. The step daughter surprised me in that she actually complied. The step son fancies himself a social revolutionary and is going through a Phase where he adamantly refuses to observe holidays or birthdays, since they are an artificial social construct (can you tell he's a philosophy major?). He probably is standing firm on principle, although a simple "Happy Birthday, Mom" would have sufficed and cost him nothing but 10 seconds of his time.

Eh, well, we are going out to dinner tonight and to a concert tomorrow and moving on with life. Sometimes this stuff just gets to me.

[Ringo1]

OP, I don't know but I'm about to find out. My son will turn 18 this summer and head off to college.

I have NO idea what to expect. How often he will visit, want to come home, call, etc. I guess it depends on how far away his college is. He still hasn't decided.

My emotions this year have ranged from extreme pride and happiness in his accomplishments ~ to crying at the drop of a hat. When he swim his last high school meet - there was a feeling of sadness and relief. All the time, money, travel, stress-over in the blink of an eye. Everyone tells me I will miss spending every blessed week-end (year round) sitting my hind end on some bleacher but I'm not so sure about that.

I will, for sure, miss the company of my son.

[Pitt Chick]

Originally Posted by Ringo1

I will, for sure, miss the company of my son.

I fully expected to miss my kids... and I did.

What I was NOT prepared for was the fact that I dearly missed their friends!
I missed their chatter, the raiding of the fridge, the noise and the chaos. (we were THE house. the one the kids gathered in)
Many facebook friended me... and we still keep in touch, even though some graduated high school in 2002. DH and I even get holiday visits from some, which is so nice.

[Katarina Witt]

Yes, it's kind of sad that once you get them to the point where you enjoy their company, they go off to start their own lives. I'm grateful that my two live fairly close, but we still don't get together enough.