I'm ready to kick out my 20-year-old son. (games, parents, accident)

[Sam I Am]

SandyCo, I hate to be a downer...and what you are going through is tough, no doubt. Trust me, if he's pushing the envelope on this he will or is already pushing it on other things, too. He's got a whole lot of red flags out there for any officer to see...no license, car not registered in his name, no insurance. And out driving it around. I hate to say it, but as a former police officer I can assure you that young males driving around draw the attention of law enforcement. One goof and here come the blue lights, and then he's in a serious mess that could delay him from getting his license for a while. The other problem that stands out for me right now is that the car is not even registered to him, but to another party - which creates a huge problem for the "legal" owner of the car...and the one to whom the car is registered is still the legal owner until motor vehicles in your state changes the title over. Owner probably has a good leg to stand on if something should happen, but the litigation could be horrendous.

Enough with legalities. I understand your desire to see your son through what are still, unfortunately, the formative years - and I truly do not think they become real people until age 23 for the most part - but you can yell, you can reason, you can ignore...and this young man is not listening.

I have two gut reactions here. One is to disable the car or move it to a locked storage facility until he has a valid license.

The second takes a little bit stronger will and most assuredly will cause problems in the short run, but the gamble is that in the long run it will pay off....tell him you will not pay for schooling this semester, he can start in January, and in the meantime he needs to be saving his money and finding a job he can work in the evenings because he's moving out. Four months will not greatly affect him in the long run as far as his schooling, but it may make a world of difference in his jump to adulthood. As of Sept. 15, he will be gone. If you feel so inclined, put down a deposite on an apartment and help him get his utilities hooked up and then set that little birdie free for a few months - and BTW, I'd only help him get hooked up with a 6 month lease because he is probably getting ready to learn a few hard lessons that will make him more amenable to the rules of your house and he WILL be back. He is responsible for his rent, insurance, utilities, and food. There won't be a whole lot of food, he'll be begging off of you while he parks his feet under the dinner table every night - but past that, he's on his own. If he does okay you can still pay for his school and help him in whatever way you deem necessary, but his basics are his to worry about.

I've said this before and I mean it from the bottom of my heart - he is a MAN despite his current actions. He's not being asked to go to Iraq, but our government would think he was quite mature enough for that. He's being asked to get a clue. We had one that we literally had to box his stuff up and sit it on the driveway for him to believe that we were not going to live under his rules, which were ever-changing and strangely enough, always to his benefit. We had an interesting scene because he didn't think we'd stick with it, but we did. He crashed at about 10 friends' houses until he woke up and realized this was not a bad dream. He got his own place, worked hard, and inside of a year we saw a vast change in his attitude and maturity level.

All the talking in the world sometimes won't help. You have the responsibility to teach him Newton's Third Law of Physics - for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. You can explain it to him all you want, but seeing the third law in motion is the best teacher of all. And let's face it - life is all one big Third Law.

The momma bird doesn't wait until baby can fly - she gives him a push. Momma giraffe/horse/elephant nudges until baby can stand, then walks away and lets baby find the way back to her guidance under his own power. You've nudged for 20 years...it may be time to take a very short walk.

This may not be right for you and I know a lot of people will not agree - but after two sons going through the same growing pains I can tell you it is the only thing that worked for us. Good luck whatever you decide.

[SandyCo]

When I rode with him in his car a week ago, he obviously wasn't ready to take the test. He needs a lot more practice, I'm afraid. He has gone out with his friends in the car since then, so hopefully he's improving, and when he is finally ready, I'll be the first person to go with him to the DMV. I do want him to get his license and drive, but I also want him to go about it legally and not take stupid risks in the meantime!

Originally Posted by charz

Can he go ahead and take his driver's license test?

[jimj]

Very true Sam I Am!!!

[SandyCo]

Sam I Am, thank you for your input. I agree with everything you said about the risks he's taking. If something happens, even if he's not the one at fault, he's still going to be the one they point the finger at simply because he's not licensed. He won't go there, because he doesn't believe anything will happen, which is again the cause of my frustration!

He already has a job as a bagger/checker at a local grocery store, where he has been for a year now. (This is why I thought he was mature enough to handle getting money on his birthday to buy a car!) He paid me rent for five or six months without me having to ask or nag him, and when he showed me that he registered as a full time student for the fall semester, I let him stop paying me in hopes that he'll save money for school. Also, I want to see how he manages his money. I've put the rent money into a separate savings account, and if he can ever prove to me that he has matured, I'm going to give that money back to him (right now it's mine, though!).

If education weren't so important to me, I would kick him out and let him fend for himself. After this semester, if he doesn't do well, he is out, and he knows that. I'm hoping that working as a bagger for a year taught him that he doesn't want to do that kind of job and live in poverty for the rest of his life. Honestly, my patience is just about gone. If I do end up kicking him out next year, at least I'll know that I tried everything I could, and maybe he is just one of those kids who has to learn about life the hard way.

[Sam I Am]

Sandy, you're not denying him an education...you'll pay for that, and I know as a great parent you will help in whatever way you can. You have his other rent money to supplement if needed. You're deferring the education for one semester while he gets it all together. All that being said, I'd want to see what kind of money he's saved for school. Betcha it ain't over $200. Betcha.

The problem as I see it from my corner on the world is that he doesn't think that regardless of what happens he will work as a bagger for the rest of his life; he just doesn't. Bill Gates will be knocking on his door any day now. Until reality sets in they are convinced that life is going to be extra good to them because they are special. If he doesn't think anything will happen with the car, you really think he believes he'll spend his life in menial jobs? H*** no. And if something does happen with the car, the police are picking on him because he's 20, not because he broke the law (oh, this is all so familiar!).

Be prepared to stick to your guns if the first semester doesn't work out...it will be no easier then than it is right now, I promise. My other son drank away a scholarship the first year, had to return home, decided he didn't like it and buckled down and proved a few things. He was allowed to go away then for ONE semester. He did what he said he'd do and got to stay. Liked it so well he stayed four more years...but he graduated magna and went to law school. $90K later I can tell you he wishes he hadn't messed up that first year....he had a ticket to ride but was too immature to appreciate it at that time. He appreciates it every month now when he pays back his student loans. We paid for undergrad, but at 25 he was on his own with law school and he chose University of Michigan...and all I can say there is $$$$$$$. We did what we said we'd do, though - we yanked his young butt home, put him in the local college, and he had to earn his way out of the house again...and he was 21 by the time that happened. And we were very gray.

Beware - it is a slippery slope - one loosening of the fingers on the guide wire lets the sled start downhill.

I hope he's a great kid and learns his lessons in short order. Lots of them don't, though. If you're banging your head against a brick wall in a couple of months you may need to re-think your position.

[Nelly Nomad]

Sandy, my heart goes out to you. What a tough situation you're in. I wish I had something constructive to offer but it sounds like you're getting plenty of good advice from our fellow posters.

I have a question about your son's driving, though. In my state, learner's permits (temps) have restrictions. With a temps, there are restrictions on when you may drive and with whom. If I recall correctly, you may not drive unless there is a licensed driver in the passenger seat (minimum age 25, I think). There are also restrictions to how many passengers you may carry, especially if those passengers are also teens.

If your son doesn't have a full license yet, is he legal to drive unaccompanied? The whole driving scenario you've described worries me, for your son's sake, for yours and for those who share the roads while he's behind the wheel.

[SandyCo]

Well, apparently there is hope. This morning he told me he was going to a swap meet to find car parts, so he was driving his car up the street to his friend's place. He wasn't happy when I again reiterated how risky and downright dangerous this could be, and in the end, I rode with him in the car. I had to walk home, but it only took me thirteen minutes. I don't mind doing that more often if this is what it takes for him to comply with the law and not drive unaccompanied!

I'm also happy to report that his practice during the week seems to have paid off. He seems a lot more confident and comfortable behind the wheel now.

[crazyma]

He does NOT have a license, and YOU are riding with HIM ???? In spite of telling him it was risky & dangerous, you get in the car with him anyway?????

What part of this am I not gettting?

[Sam I Am]

Originally Posted by crazyma

He does NOT have a license, and YOU are riding with HIM ???? In spite of telling him it was risky & dangerous, you get in the car with him anyway?????

What part of this am I not gettting?

Post #1 - he has a learner's permit, meaning he can drive with a licensed driver above whatever age in the car...hey, we all had to do that!...didn't we???

[maf763]

I don't understand why you gave him the money to buy a car in the first place, considering he didn't have his license.