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Old 09-21-2008, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Mebane
2,460 posts, read 3,827,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foreverking View Post
With all due respect, your daycare sounds like an exception. There are exceptions to every rule. I've paid extra money to 2 home daycares that promise when I hire them to provide a preschool setting with learning. But I was continually disappointed when my son would tell me about his day: playtime, dress up, etc. In general what I would find from a babysitter or other daycare that didn't offer learning like these did. But I was stuck paying more money. And as you said, your girl is in a "smaller group" that evidently your daycare woman can afford to do. Most that I've seen have at least 6 at a time of all age ranges. I understand that they are too busy to teach different things to different ages. Thats one of the reasons why I say a daycare center would offer more advantages (share the load).
My daughter is in a smaller group because my state mandates that home providers may not care for more than 5 children under school-age. So there would not be more than 5 children in any (legal) home daycare in my state. Even if there are 2 providers in the home setting, they still can't have more than 5 kids. My daycare provider has 5, the maximum number she is allowed to have. But it is still a much smaller group than in a center.

If my daughter were in a center, she would most likely be in a class with 14 children and 2 teachers according to our state's ratios for her age group in center care. Some centers do offer "enhanced ratios" and will only have 10-12 in a class with 2 teachers, but you certainly pay more for that. I am not trying to knock centers. My daughter has been in a center that we were happy with, and we will likely move her to another center next year (to put the baby with the home provider - she doesn't have space for both kids). I'm just saying that the group size is much larger in a center because the state requires very different ratios for home vs center providers.

I think that both home and center providers can probably both be rated on a bell curve. Most are pretty average, some are really good, and some are really bad. You just have to look around, screen carefully, and maybe be a little lucky!
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Old 09-21-2008, 03:40 PM
 
Location: GIlbert, AZ
2,802 posts, read 2,502,878 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVentive View Post
My daughter is in a smaller group because my state mandates that home providers may not care for more than 5 children under school-age. So there would not be more than 5 children in any (legal) home daycare in my state. Even if there are 2 providers in the home setting, they still can't have more than 5 kids. My daycare provider has 5, the maximum number she is allowed to have. But it is still a much smaller group than in a center.

If my daughter were in a center, she would most likely be in a class with 14 children and 2 teachers according to our state's ratios for her age group in center care. Some centers do offer "enhanced ratios" and will only have 10-12 in a class with 2 teachers, but you certainly pay more for that. I am not trying to knock centers. My daughter has been in a center that we were happy with, and we will likely move her to another center next year (to put the baby with the home provider - she doesn't have space for both kids). I'm just saying that the group size is much larger in a center because the state requires very different ratios for home vs center providers.

I think that both home and center providers can probably both be rated on a bell curve. Most are pretty average, some are really good, and some are really bad. You just have to look around, screen carefully, and maybe be a little lucky!
In my state, each licensed provider can watch 6 kids and/with 2 babies. If they are a licensed couple then they can go up to 12 at a time. The homes look quite hectic and chaotic with all those kids but the providers seemed happy.

Did you personally see 14 kids at one time with the 2 center women? Thats just ever so slightly more than I am used to seeing. That could be something North Carolina allows but other states dont. If the center looked well managed and clean, then that should be fine.
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Old 09-21-2008, 03:41 PM
 
Location: NE Oklahoma
1,036 posts, read 1,724,048 times
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Like was pointed out before, Just pop in for a visit. Especially once you pick one out. Visit several. Ask questions of the staff. Stand around and observe. Chat. See how distractable they are. If they ignore the kids and chat...move on. Chances are they will be doing the same later when another parent is there. I am not saying they should be rude, just tending to the job you know? The manager/head instructor, whatever should be touring with you or they may just let you roam (but I don't think that is wise either necessarily). Also you can check with the reporting agency in your area. Here it is Dept of Human Services that licenses them for the number of reports that they have yearly. See what is reported for and look for it. Compare the number of reports for all of them and then what they are reported for. BELIEVE ME everyone is reported sooner or later for something. All it takes is one even minorly ticked off parent to call DHS and make something up. I know one mother that WORKS for DHS here and if her kid (who is a foster child and pathological lier) comes home and says... Ms. Susie slapped Johnny today. She calls and makes a report. Regardless that she KNOWS her child is a lier.
In Oklahoma the link is: Oklahoma Department of Human Services - Oklahoma Child Care Locator

Good Luck.
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Old 09-21-2008, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Mebane
2,460 posts, read 3,827,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foreverking View Post
In my state, each licensed provider can watch 6 kids and/with 2 babies. If they are a licensed couple then they can go up to 12 at a time. The homes look quite hectic and chaotic with all those kids but the providers seemed happy.

Did you personally see 14 kids at one time with the 2 center women? Thats just ever so slightly more than I am used to seeing. That could be something North Carolina allows but other states dont. If the center looked well managed and clean, then that should be fine.
I personally taught in a center where we had a 1:7 ratio in the two year old room. I just did a quick check on the NC Child Care website which gives all the info for licensed daycares in our state. For a random center following state ratios, the ratios are listed as infants 1:5, ones 1:6, twos 1:10, threes 1:15, fours 1:20. At a 5 star center I looked at with enhanced ratios, they are listed as infants 1:4, ones 1:5, twos 1:8, threes 1:9, fours 1:12. Since my daughter is two, she would be in a class of 1:8 even at the center with enhanced ratios. Since they generally have 2 teachers in a room, that makes 2 teachers with 16 kids. At a 4 star center, she could be in a room with 2 teachers and 20 kids. When she was one, she was in a center in a room with 12 kids and 2 teachers. At the center we plan to send her to next year (a 5 star expensive place where the waiting list is like 18 months long), the ratios are infants 1:4, ones 1:6, twos 1:9, threes and fours 1:10. Again, for home providers, the ratio is 1:5 regardless of age, infants up to fours. In addition, they can have up to 3 after-school kids, though my provider doesn't have any after-care kids.

Here is a link to the NC Child Care Laws and Rules, which lists the state ratios on page two for each age group and for home providers vs centers.
http://ncchildcare.dhhs.state.nc.us/...mary_05_05.pdf
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Old 09-22-2008, 09:23 AM
 
37 posts, read 41,348 times
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I too am a child care worker & agree there are good & bad centers & good & bad home care providers.
I have worked in really terrible centers where I felt like I was the only one doing any work & generally you hear through the grapevine centers that have really bad reps so I would even avoid applying for a job at those centers then let my friends know as a general courtesy to steer clear of them.

I have had friends who worked as home care providers. One did a fantastic job but due to her health reasons she had to close her business down. However she had a relief carer when she was unable to work or wanted a day off & when my friend shut her home care down her relief carer took over her business at her own home.
I also had one friend whom I lent all my children's outdoor play equipment too & also allowed her to have my children due to my hours & she ripped me off & told other people I knew that I had given her my children's play equipment for nothing. After I changed centers & was actually driving out of my way to pick up my children then having to drive back past the center I worked at to get to my home which was not far away from where I worked I decided to pull them out as my fees for one day were equaling or doubling my fees for 5day care & 1 of those days was off the book care so cost me more. When I let her know I was not returning I also asked for my children's play equipment back. She no longer speaks to me & she still has some of my stuff. So I learned a lesson there. Since the only reason I can come up with her not wanting anything to do with me is because I took away the majority source of her income (other parents were leaving cause it was far to expensive & turned out to cost more then center care) & because I took my children's toys back that she expected to keep for nothing . She got money to spend on her home day care equipment but in the meantime had fallen pregnant & decided she would use the money to fit out the nursery instead of on what it was intended for because she had our stuff. So obviously rather then looking at herself for being so selfish she would rather blame others.

I myself am looking at moving to the home care field. I have an ex co-worker who is keen on becoming my relief carer which works out perfectly for me because when my kids are on school breaks I can spend all my time with them rather then other peoples children and when they return to school then I can go back to working. I have plenty of resources as I have always provided my children with the same items that are used in a child care center.

When looking for a provider I suggest you look for someone who is in the field for the children not for the money. Someone posed the question earlier saying why do we work in this field when we get such crap money? Those of us who do it despite the crap money do it for the children in our care because we get a sense of fulfillment out of providing children with the love, care & compassion they deserve as well as teaching them to grow & develop to become the best person they can be & to help instill decent morals & values in them.
Secondly make sure they have police checks like someone else said.
Thirdly I would look for someone who is qualified. From what I know Home carer's don't have to hold any form of qualification.
Do a thorough search of the home inside and out & take note of what may be safety issues or concerns for yourself in the eyes of your child e.g. that fence seems rather low my child may be able to climb over it & run on to that road that seems awfully busy & close to the house. Those rocks look a little sharp my child tends to be a bit clumsy and may fall & hurt themselves on them etc.

The same thing goes for a day care center. Talk to other parents find out how many staff pass through the center. The center I currently work in has been through that many staff since the beginning of the year I have lost count. In fact of all the 17 staff that are employed there only 8 of those have been there since the beginning of the year & the majority of those that aren't have only just joined out team in the last month or so & of all those staff there are at least 8 wanting to leave most of those being the original staff. Take a look at that & try & find out the reason for this. I know that the reason behind the constant flow of staff going through our center is due to the fact of favoritism with the manager & select staff who are close friends outside of work, live together or are related & those who do not fit in to that stereotype are treated like slaves while those who are get to sit on their butts & do nothing while the ones actually doing their job get the blame for accidents that happen due to those not doing their job through supervising the children & they get away with murder basically.

A good center will allow you to spend a whole day there with your child & people can only be fake for so long. That way you can get to know the routine your child will be following & have an idea of what the program consists of when it comes to learning & development. As someone said centers who only accept you attending by appointment only are red flags. they do this so they can go round the center & say we have a new parent coming to look through at 10am make sure everything is neat & orderly & you are occupying & controlling the lesser behaved kids & you are all on your best most polite behavior. In this instance I will turn up an hr before time & say oh sorry I had to come in earlier then expected or miss the appointment time & turn up 2hours late & say oh sorry I got held up. No doubt you will catch them out.

Also look at the qualifications & ages of the staff. Atm our center has way to many girls under 20 most just out of school & they don't even know how to change a diaper or have no idea if this is even the career path they want to take they are just testing the waters until they find something that suits them.

Make sure you feel comfortable in the environment & your child does too. Check out all the options in your area before settling on just one.

I love talking to my parents & getting to know them even if it is not related to their child. In fact I found out on Friday one of my parents lived in Germany when she was younger & became a nanny over there for sometime before returning & meeting her husband & having her children & how she has taught her children some German words (something I never knew about that child in my care). If you find there is staff that you easily build a rapport with almost instantly (even look at the way other children respond to that carer) chances are you have hit a winner. I have children & parents who stop me while I am out shopping, dropping my children off at school etc just to say hi and tell me what they have done that day. I actually find it amusing when you are walking through a shop & all of a sudden you hear your name being called from the other side or over hear a child in your care telling someone you are unfamiliar with that's Miss ...... ! It actually gives you a sense of pride that you have left an impression on that child. That is what I look for as a parent & therefore I treat my parents as I would want to be treated as a parent.
Anyway those are just some of my thoughts,opinions & suggestions.
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Old 09-22-2008, 12:03 PM
 
206 posts, read 458,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2girlsand2boys View Post
I wholeheartedly concur! I understand that some people are single parents and need to work, however, I have a huge problem with the majority of parents who send their kid to be raised by babysitters so that they can enjoy the finer things in life. If you are willing to make sacrifices for your family then I don't see how you cannot afford to have one parent at home to raise the children. Again, the key word is sacrifice!

Also, I babysat for children in my home for a short time. If I (or my children) were sick and I canceled, I did NOT get paid for that day. If the child I was watching were sick and didn't come I did get paid. It was only fair!
Why would you have a huge problem with how other people are raising their children. Also, does saving for a college education, living in a neighborhood that has a great school district and being able to save money for 1 or 2 rainy days consist of the "finer things" in life? For most families (about 95% who live a middle class) to have even just those things require 2 income households.

I definitely respect your opinion to do as you please. However, I am always amazed at people who judged from the outside. Don't you think that if you are staying at home with your children, you should be able to do it without judgement? Well, put yourself in the other person's shoes. What gives you the right to have a "huge problem" with another family who are doing the same thing you are doing.....What they think is right for their family.
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Old 09-22-2008, 06:42 PM
 
37 posts, read 41,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennylove76 View Post
Why would you have a huge problem with how other people are raising their children. Also, does saving for a college education, living in a neighborhood that has a great school district and being able to save money for 1 or 2 rainy days consist of the "finer things" in life? For most families (about 95% who live a middle class) to have even just those things require 2 income households.

I definitely respect your opinion to do as you please. However, I am always amazed at people who judged from the outside. Don't you think that if you are staying at home with your children, you should be able to do it without judgement? Well, put yourself in the other person's shoes. What gives you the right to have a "huge problem" with another family who are doing the same thing you are doing.....What they think is right for their family.

I think you are right in not judging people based on face value & not knowing the whole circumstance. I am a single parent & I used to work at another center on a full time basis & I felt like I was missing out on my children's lives. Sure they go to nice private schools (personal choice because I live closer to a public school but with my son who is a teenager I had many problems with him in public schools so opted not to put my girls through the torment he suffered because of bullies), I pay off my mortgage & I pay my bills we don't really get luxury items & we may struggle with coming up with enough for food & gas, but I spoke to my old workplace & arranged doing mid morning & afternoon only shifts so I could take my children to school of a morning & spend time in their classrooms talking to their teachers etc. I always ask for time off if there is a special day at school so I can attend. As I said I may be scraping the bottom of the barrel but my kids have everything we need plus my love & attention. On weekends & school breaks we try to do things that are relatively cost free. It may be as simple as going to a park & having picnics with friends & their kids or going to friends houses & swimming in their pool, painting playing with dough etc.
The reason I choose to do this is because working in child care the amount of parents who drop their children off the minute it opens & leave them there until the minute it closes they are there 5days a week & you just know that if the center opened 7 days they would be there 7days if the center provided breakfast lunch dinner & a bath & to get them to sleep before you got there they would choose to do that because these people are so career orientated it is even a wonder why they have children. As I said there are a lot of reasons & circumstances what people do this. I have met a lot of people who do have their children in care 5days but when they pick them up their children are their world & you can see that by the way the children react to their parents & the parents reactions as well as their behavior in care.
There is one such case as what I mentioned above & this couple have 2 children. If you so much as ring them & say they need to collect their child because they are sick their response is but I can't possibly leave work. Their children are serious problem children who act out at the detriment of other children & carers safety. We have spoken to the parents & told them they need to take 1 day off a week & spend quality time with those children because they need it & so the parents did only to put them in a room in front of a tv all day (which is what their weekends generally consist of). The children are terrified of their parents & if you so much as tell the child you will be speaking to their parents about their behavior they get hysterical & will sit their scared out of their minds because the parents don't talk to them about why this behavior they just slap the crap out of them. There have been a lot of other behaviors displayed, but this is just an idea of how people abuse the system & why they shouldn't ave children & unfortunately it's those who make the 5day a week workers look bad. However it is sad but true & I have seen it many times. Don't get me wrong I have seen the same behavior from single parents too & it's sad because you just want to take these children home & give them the love, care & attention they want, need & deserve.
I felt myself becoming one of these parents & it upset me more then it did my children I think. I just hated that most days we were up at 5 drop them off at home day care so they could be taken to school by someone else & then picked up by someone else or sent on a bus. Then most nights by the time I got to the home day care to pick them up (where most nights they would have dinner there too) got them home did their homework which was really late at night bathed them & got them in bed sometimes as late as 9 or 10pm for us to do it all again the next day. It was horrible & all I could think why am I doing this to my children why am I sacrificing looking after my own children & experiencing them grow up just so I could watch someone else's. I felt I was contradicting my profession on one hand I am neglecting my children on the other I am taking care of other people's children it didn't seem fair. I also found when I weighed up the cost of travel (at least a 45 minute drive each way) & day care & deducted those from my earnings I would pretty much be earning the same amount by moving back to my old work place (which was around the corner) & pulling my kids out of day care . They do go to another care facility in the afternoons but it is much cheaper then where they used to go & most days I walk to work & on the way home I pick them up & we have great bonding time in that 10min walk home playing games or just talking about our day.

I guess at the end of the day it all boils down to personal choice what you think is best for you & your children. If you can work around ways to spend time with your kids great if you can't then spend weekends doing quality things with them. However I have to say if you are to career orientated then keep it in your pants or use protection because children need love & affection & if you can't provide that because your job is more important than your kids then give them up for adoption to people who have so much love to give but are unable to give it.

It's sad really it's a shame that the career orientated people aren't the ones who have problems conceiving instead of those who really want a child to devote their whole world to.
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Old 09-22-2008, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Maine
650 posts, read 1,385,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennylove76 View Post
Why would you have a huge problem with how other people are raising their children. Also, does saving for a college education, living in a neighborhood that has a great school district and being able to save money for 1 or 2 rainy days consist of the "finer things" in life? For most families (about 95% who live a middle class) to have even just those things require 2 income households.

I definitely respect your opinion to do as you please. However, I am always amazed at people who judged from the outside. Don't you think that if you are staying at home with your children, you should be able to do it without judgement? Well, put yourself in the other person's shoes. What gives you the right to have a "huge problem" with another family who are doing the same thing you are doing.....What they think is right for their family.
You are right. My comments come across as judgemental, but I find it a hard pill to swallow when parents leave their kids with child care workers for 8-12 hours a day and then come to sites like this to complain about it. That's how this thread started, right?

I worked in preschools and daycares for years and it would always irritate me that parents could dump their kids off all day long so both parents could work. Then they'd arrive late to pick up, grouchy and irritated at the kid who is tired and whiny and just wants to spend time with mom or dad who they haven't seen since the car ride in in the morning. Then it is fast food dinners in the car, since mom is too tired to cook and then it is bedtime and time to wake up and do it all again. I don't think that is any way for a kid to have to live.

I don't buy the theory that you need 2 incomes just to get by. You have the right to disagree with me, but my family is proof that it isn't true.
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Old 09-23-2008, 06:43 AM
 
206 posts, read 458,342 times
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Originally Posted by potstirrer View Post

It's sad really it's a shame that the career orientated people aren't the ones who have problems conceiving instead of those who really want a child to devote their whole world to.
Potstirrer, while I understand most of your post is your opinion and your perspective. I don't understand the above quote. How can you say something like that. I am truly speechless. You basically are in a sense playing God and saying that a certain group should have problems conceiving versus another group. WOW.

All I have to say that if you and any other person make yourself feel better by judging another group and putting down that group, then it is likely that you are trying to convince yourself that you are doing a good job.
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Old 09-23-2008, 06:55 AM
 
206 posts, read 458,342 times
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Default Everytime you point your finger at someone else, there is 3 pointing at you

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Originally Posted by 2girlsand2boys View Post
You are right. My comments come across as judgemental, but I find it a hard pill to swallow when parents leave their kids with child care workers for 8-12 hours a day and then come to sites like this to complain about it. That's how this thread started, right?

I worked in preschools and daycares for years and it would always irritate me that parents could dump their kids off all day long so both parents could work. Then they'd arrive late to pick up, grouchy and irritated at the kid who is tired and whiny and just wants to spend time with mom or dad who they haven't seen since the car ride in in the morning. Then it is fast food dinners in the car, since mom is too tired to cook and then it is bedtime and time to wake up and do it all again. I don't think that is any way for a kid to have to live.

I don't buy the theory that you need 2 incomes just to get by. You have the right to disagree with me, but my family is proof that it isn't true.
I'm not saying that your theory is wrong or your choices are wrong. I just find that people typically make judgements to compensate for something that they are doing. I have also worked in a daycare and with troubled children. Yes you are right, there are parents who leave their children from opening to closing. However, there are also parents who pay for fulltime child care yet they will work odd shifts so they can leave eraly to pick their kids up or have a weekday off with their child. My point is the number of parents who love their children and try to be with them as much as possible is much higher, in my experience, than the examples you have been providing.

However, your examples fail to discuss the parents that stay at home and let their children watch TV all day. Or they have multiple children and they make their older child watch the younger children all day.

This is not a sweeping generalization, as I know all SAH parents don't do that. However, I would argue that for every example that you can provide of the parent working too many hours, there is also a SAH parent who is "there" but not there.

My point is we should really stop letting society engage us in these "mommy wars". Instead of sitting back and being so judgemental why don't you offer to help those parents or that child. I'm sure you do a great job raising your children and they benefit from having you as a parent. However, do you think that if you stay at home and judge other people all day that your child is benefiting from that example?
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