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Old 10-19-2008, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Purcell Trench
168 posts, read 671,611 times
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Haha. Bravo, SuSuSushi. *hear my applause* The presence of biting teeth are, in fact, an excellent natural calendar in humans as well as in other mammals. Like I said, look at native cultures and you'll see some pretty "natural parenting" examples.
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Old 10-19-2008, 12:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_flawless View Post
I snipped that bit from the original post, because I'm wondering where this idea came from, that "many advocates do not believe in disciplining their children"....??

I have yet to meet anyone who understands and believes in the Attachment Parenting philosophies and also has a set belief about NOT disciplining their children!

Matter of fact, the people I've known who don't discipline their kids have either been the ones who just don't give a darn at all, or those who are constantly guilt ridden about working or other separation issues and don't want to be the "bad guy" when they DO have time with their kids.

I think the word "discipline" is one that means many different things to many different people though. For some, discipline must be spanking and strict rules and authoritative parenting. For others they literally interpret "discipline" as TEACHING and their methods will be totally different. Both example parents are using discipline, just in very different ways.




Just wanted to comment on this... google "taking children seriously" to see parents who don't discipline. I'm not talking about not spanking, not using timeouts, etc. I'm talking about parents saying things like "I do'nt want to influence my child in any way... I want him to make his own choices." Kid doesn't want to sit in a carseat? Well, it's his choice. Two year old hitting playmates? Well, it's just his way of getting his frustrations out before he can use words. This is NOT the same as AP, but I have known AP parents who veer towards this IMO dangerous brand of child-rearing.

I think that's where the misconception that AP parents don't discipline or teach their children comes from.
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Old 10-19-2008, 12:23 PM
 
2,839 posts, read 9,968,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJRuek View Post
Haha. Bravo, SuSuSushi. *hear my applause* The presence of biting teeth are, in fact, an excellent natural calendar in humans as well as in other mammals. Like I said, look at native cultures and you'll see some pretty "natural parenting" examples.
What native cultures are you referring to? I ask because the worldwide NATURAL age of weaning is between 2 and 7 years. Do you have any cultures in particular in mind when you say that native cultures wean their children when the milk teeth come in? I think you are confusing the milk teeth with permanent adult teeth. Natural weaning when the adult teeth come (usually starting around age 5 or 6) makes more sense.

Babies at 6 months of age do not naturally eat table foods, but they do have teeth. Before the invention of artificial milk (baby formula), babies were nursed until they were old enough to be sustained on solid food and no milk. No other mammal drinks the milk of another species under normal circumstances. No other mammal pumps out their milk and feeds it to their babies out of a cup. If your argument is that humans are mammals and should do as other mammals do, then unfortunately, your logic is faulty.
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Old 10-19-2008, 12:38 PM
 
Location: S. New Hampshire
909 posts, read 3,358,028 times
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I didn't want the videos either.

I nursed both of my daughters until slightly past 1yo. After that my milk was drying up, and my daughters looked ready to stop. I only coslept by accident, or (as in the case of my 2nd daughter when she was a newborn) if there was no other way for me to get any sleep.

The only attachment parenting practice I did a lot of, and still do a lot of, is babywearing. But for me it's more of an issue of expediency. I didn't do it specifically to bond with my babies. I did it because they wanted to be held, and I needed my hands free, esp. when my 2nd daughter was born.

I think as a philosophy, it's fine if it works for you, but if you don't do it, it doesn't mean that your child will NOT turn out confident, self-assured, empathic, etc. I also think that as with ANY parenting practice some people get confused or misled and overdo it, causing themselves a lot of unecessary stress and grief.

ETA: in reading the pp, are these the videos of the British family with 3 children, the 5 yo girl is nursing, and has no intention of giving it up? And at one point she calls her dad an idiot? I think I saw those videos a while back. IMHO, that is not really attachment parenting, that's lack of common sense. I know attachment parents, and they do not parent the way I saw in the video, even though they do extended breastfeeding, cosleeping, babywearing, gentle discipline, etc.
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Old 10-19-2008, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Purcell Trench
168 posts, read 671,611 times
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Ah, I'm not familiar with native cultures that breast feed through age 7. By age seven, and, in fact, much earlier, both female and male children are well on their way to contributing to the community by learning and mastering the skills their culture deems appropriate for survival and social normality. Weaning around two, I believe, is pretty standard. Now I'm certainly no expert on anthropology, but Mohave peoples, Africans, S. American Indians, and Aborigines (all hunter-gatherer societies) wean earlier, not later.
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Old 10-19-2008, 12:52 PM
 
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Here is a link with good info and which contains other links to studies of certain native/contemporary cultures and the age of weaning. There is also some evolutionary content, comparing humans with primates such as gorillas and chimps:

Beyond Toddlerhood - The Natural Child Project

I'm not arguing that everyone needs to start nursing their children until they are 3, 4 ,5, 8 years old, by the way. I'm just saying that to say that we are mammals and should do as other mammals do, and then say "either wean at a year or pump into a cup" is totally UNLIKE what mammals do. It's also not what ancient cultures did. Weaning a baby or toddler off of breastmilk and onto baby formula or cow's milk is something very recent in the history of humans.
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Old 10-19-2008, 12:54 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 6,171,647 times
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This is a very interesting piece on the natural age of weaning in mammals. The natural age of weaning is dependent on multiple factors such as the age that the child gets their first permanent molars, length of gestation, size of adults (larger mammals such as humans wean when their children quadruple their birth weight or reach 1/3 of their adult weight). Based on these studies the minimum predicted age for a natural age of weaning in humans is 2.5 years and a maximum of 7 years.

A Natural Age of Weaning
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Old 10-19-2008, 01:02 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 6,171,647 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuSuSushi View Post
Also, if they're old enough to ask for it in words they're old enough to be weaned. If you want to continue to give them the benefit of breast milk, then give it to them in a bottle or cup. The kid doesn't have to get it directly from the boob to get all the benefits of it.
I've never understood the logic that if someone is able to verbally ask me for something then it is time to cut them off. It doesn't make sense.

What is wrong with giving them milk from the breast? Why would I go through all the trouble of pumping and storing milk just to give breastmilk in a cup when it is readily available directly from the source? There's more to breastfeeding then just the health benefits of the milk. It's a bonding experience for mother and child and is very comforting for the child, that is why it is referred to as nursing.
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Old 10-19-2008, 01:08 PM
 
2,839 posts, read 9,968,858 times
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Originally Posted by yodi View Post
I've never understood the logic that if someone is able to verbally ask me for something then it is time to cut them off. It doesn't make sense.

What is wrong with giving them milk from the breast? Why would I go through all the trouble of pumping and storing milk just to give breastmilk in a cup when it is readily available directly from the source? There's more to breastfeeding then just the health benefits of the milk. It's a bonding experience for mother and child and is very comforting for the child, that is why it is referred to as nursing.

Oh yeah, nursing through toddlerhood is so much more than just providing milk! I remember the moms at the rec center once being amazed after my daughter fell down and split her lip and was up playing again in under 2 minutes. It took just a minute of having "nonnies" to calm her down enough for me to clean up her lip with no tears, and the crisis was over. Mommy milk is a special sort of magic during the terrible twos, that's for sure!
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Old 10-19-2008, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Purcell Trench
168 posts, read 671,611 times
Reputation: 94
I don't see anything odd about nursing through toddlerhood, as you call it, but when a child is four and up? I don't think that's a healthy sign of development for the child; likewise, I question the motives and mental health of the mother.
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