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Danielle, no one here is saying that they don't vaccinate against pertussis because they are afraid that their baby might not like the sore leg that accompanies the vaccine. Obviously any parent would choose a sore arm or leg over pertussis. That's not what's being discussed.
If a sore leg was the worst thing that could happen, there would be no reason to not vaccinate. If vaccinations were truly safe, then everyone would do it. If they were truly effective, then that would be even better. People who don't have their children vaccinated have made this decision because they are concerned that the risks of the vaccine (NOT the sore arm risk, but real risks) are more likely than the benefit that the vaccine might have.
Danielle, no one here is saying that they don't vaccinate against pertussis because they are afraid that their baby might not like the sore leg that accompanies the vaccine. Obviously any parent would choose a sore arm or leg over pertussis. That's not what's being discussed.
If a sore leg was the worst thing that could happen, there would be no reason to not vaccinate. If vaccinations were truly safe, then everyone would do it. If they were truly effective, then that would be even better. People who don't have their children vaccinated have made this decision because they are concerned that the risks of the vaccine (NOT the sore arm risk, but real risks) are more likely than the benefit that the vaccine might have.
Well it is reported that 1 out of 1,000,000 suffer a severe side effect and it is so rare they are not even sure they can link those to the actual vaccine.
YOur chances of getting hit by a bus are much higher.
Reported by whom? The drug companies? The FDA? I am curious as to the basis of your stats.
According to what I am reading through many sources, the stats of Autism specifically show 1 out of 150 kids will develope the 'illness'. 1 out of 1,000,000 may be true for other side effects, but I am curious to know what side effects and where the info comes from.
The following links have good info - food for thought for anyone with a child:
Regarding Thimerasol - it has not been taken of the market, but is being 'reduced' in some vaccines. It is still contained in flu vaccines, although you can ask for the vaccine without it - whether or not your request is granted is another story. The following link gives more info:
Your responses are much of what I hear from parents in my area. As I stated earlier, this is something so personal - EVERY parent should feel obligated to research it to the point of exhaustion before making a decision. We are the only advocates for our children, and it is our responsibility to ensure their health. YOU have to decide what is best for your child - as I do for mine.
I do not take the word of the FDA regarding anything. Most people are not aware, the FDA is an entity actively lobbyied among other problems: Fineberg Focused on FDA Reform at Cutter Lecture, May 11, 2007, Harvard Public Health NOW (http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/now/20070511/ - broken link)
The following sheds more light on the connection between drug companies and meds pushed to kids. One statement being "more insured kids means more drugs being prescribed'.
My point? There is SO much info out there, you cannot ake anything for granted. AND, you cannot make assumptions as to why parents make certain choices, when there is unequivocal evidence that 'the powers that be' often have their pocket book as the bottom line - NOT the health of children.
My chances of getting hit by a bus may be higher - but I sure want to know if that bus is coming...
We are a vaxing family, and I do not personally believe that there is a connection between vaccines and autism. But we have delayed some of our vaxes for completely different reasons relating to immune system maturity (we don't do Hep B at birth and we delay the live vaccines too). Of the 4 flu shots my dd has had so far in her life, 2 have had thimerisol, and 2 have not, just based on the supply available at the doc's office. Of the flu shots I or my DH have had, they have all had thimerisol. Just because they make thimerisol-free versions of the vax, does not mean that they are readily available.
Though we are a vaxing family, I fully support parental choice in the matter. I know that people who choose not to vax do so after much research and with a sincere belief that their risk of serious complications from the vax are greater than their risk of serious complications from the disease. I think people who consciously choose not to vax are in a very different category from people who aren't vaxing just because they haven't gotten around to it or who don't want to pay for it or something. Therefore, I do agree with vaxing being an opt-out instead of an opt-in program, but I think that the opt-out options should be more clear and more easily obtained (ie, I think there should be a way to opt-out other than just medical or religious exemptions).
We are a vaxing family, and I do not personally believe that there is a connection between vaccines and autism. But we have delayed some of our vaxes for completely different reasons relating to immune system maturity (we don't do Hep B at birth and we delay the live vaccines too). Of the 4 flu shots my dd has had so far in her life, 2 have had thimerisol, and 2 have not, just based on the supply available at the doc's office. Of the flu shots I or my DH have had, they have all had thimerisol. Just because they make thimerisol-free versions of the vax, does not mean that they are readily available.
Though we are a vaxing family, I fully support parental choice in the matter. I know that people who choose not to vax do so after much research and with a sincere belief that their risk of serious complications from the vax are greater than their risk of serious complications from the disease. I think people who consciously choose not to vax are in a very different category from people who aren't vaxing just because they haven't gotten around to it or who don't want to pay for it or something. Therefore, I do agree with vaxing being an opt-out instead of an opt-in program, but I think that the opt-out options should be more clear and more easily obtained (ie, I think there should be a way to opt-out other than just medical or religious exemptions).
ADventive, you and I don't often agree on parenting issues, but I respect your opinion very much. You personally choose to vax your child(ren?) and yet you are always supportive of parents who have made the informed decision not to. You have done your own research are not just blindly following what a set of white coats tell you to do. Even though your choices are different than mine, you have made INFORMED choices for your family nevertheless.
I have been accused (yet again) of having a problem with parents because they have an opinion that is different than mine, and that isn't my problem at all. My issues are and have always been with the people that can't stand that I may choose to do things against the grain for my own family. You know the ones, the people that say we are leaching off of herd immunity and that I am risking my children's lives, and blah, blah, blah.
Fighting over this issue again and again is getting us nowhere and just brings out the worst in everyone.
And if we had ALL just followed blindly in getting our children vaccinated for the last 20 years and NOT ONE PARENT raised a single question or concern. NOT ONE PARENT dared ask the makers about their vaccines or researched the ingredients, side effects, success rates, etc we would STILL be giving our precious children the SAME vaccines from 20+ years ago with ZILCH IMPROVEMENTS! But because a few stood up and demanded to know EXACTLY what the vaccines contained, the side effects, the success rates, etc they were FORCED to make changes and make the vaccines SAFER for those that came behind them. Because I did question the pertussis vaccine way back in the early part of the 90's as well as many others it has made it much safer now for YOUR BABY to get vaccinated and protected from it.
Danielle, no one here is saying that they don't vaccinate against pertussis because they are afraid that their baby might not like the sore leg that accompanies the vaccine. Obviously any parent would choose a sore arm or leg over pertussis. That's not what's being discussed.
If a sore leg was the worst thing that could happen, there would be no reason to not vaccinate. If vaccinations were truly safe, then everyone would do it. If they were truly effective, then that would be even better. People who don't have their children vaccinated have made this decision because they are concerned that the risks of the vaccine (NOT the sore arm risk, but real risks) are more likely than the benefit that the vaccine might have.
I agree ! When my son had his first set of shots, he had an adverse reaction, almost like an anaphylactic shock, that was so bad I thought he was going to DIE ! Even after that, his crazy Pediatrician told me he would still need the remainder of his shots, can you believe it ! I finally found a PED that doesn't push the issue of immunization. She says "there is no reason to vaccinate an infant", and I agree with that.
Reported by whom? The drug companies? The FDA? I am curious as to the basis of your stats.
According to what I am reading through many sources, the stats of Autism specifically show 1 out of 150 kids will develope the 'illness'. 1 out of 1,000,000 may be true for other side effects, but I am curious to know what side effects and where the info comes from.
The following links have good info - food for thought for anyone with a child:
Regarding Thimerasol - it has not been taken of the market, but is being 'reduced' in some vaccines. It is still contained in flu vaccines, although you can ask for the vaccine without it - whether or not your request is granted is another story. The following link gives more info:
Your responses are much of what I hear from parents in my area. As I stated earlier, this is something so personal - EVERY parent should feel obligated to research it to the point of exhaustion before making a decision. We are the only advocates for our children, and it is our responsibility to ensure their health. YOU have to decide what is best for your child - as I do for mine.
I do not take the word of the FDA regarding anything. Most people are not aware, the FDA is an entity actively lobbyied among other problems: Fineberg Focused on FDA Reform at Cutter Lecture, May 11, 2007, Harvard Public Health NOW (http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/now/20070511/ - broken link)
The following sheds more light on the connection between drug companies and meds pushed to kids. One statement being "more insured kids means more drugs being prescribed'.
My point? There is SO much info out there, you cannot ake anything for granted. AND, you cannot make assumptions as to why parents make certain choices, when there is unequivocal evidence that 'the powers that be' often have their pocket book as the bottom line - NOT the health of children.
My chances of getting hit by a bus may be higher - but I sure want to know if that bus is coming...
Autism is not a side effect of the Pertussis vaccine. The stats I listed were from the CDC and WHO.
According to those sites, a serious side effect from the Pertussis vaccine occurs with 1 dose out of 1,000,000. It happens so rarely that they can not for sure link that 1 time to the actual vaccine.
The reason that most unvaxed kids don't get these diseases is because of all of the other vaxed kids out there. It is called herd immunity.
I am not saying that Vaccines are 100% effective or 100% safe but you have to weight the pro and cons. If it was not for vaccines our world would be overwhelmed with now eradicated diseases. That is fact.
You risk getting a disease that can kill verses the side effects of the shot. And rare side effects from vaccines do not happen all that often. The incidence of death from a disease would happen far more often the death from a Pertussis vaccine.
What about all the info that is pointing to Autism having a genetic componant? Or that it happens to boys much more often then girls?
Thimerosal is not in vaccines anymore. With the exception of the flu vax.
Since 2001, with the exception of some influenza (flu) vaccines, thimerosal is not used as a preservative in routinely recommended childhood vaccines.
According to the VAERS (the Vaccine Adverse Effects Reporting System),
Quote:
Approximately 30,000 VAERS reports are filed annually, with 10–15% classified as serious (causing disability, hospitalization, life-threatening illness or death).
So that means that every year, between 3,000 and 4,500 serious adverse effects (much, much more serious than a sore arm or leg, or a passing fever, or even a seizure, which typically does not cause disability, hospitalization, life-threatening illness or death) are reported from vaccines. I find it hard to believe that all, most, or even a sizable percentage of these effects are "coincidental."
Danielle, I'm with you. Now that some of those illnesses are making a comeback, those who refuse to vaccinate their children are DEPENDING on those of us who do. Back when mine were small, they were all immunized. My kids are past the age for childhood deseases, but I knew because of their shots, and all others getting them, things like whooping cough didn't make the rounds.
Whooping cough DOES kill, and does so indiscriminately. Mumps and measels can cause permanent damage, and those will come back too. In time, all of those that children were once protected from will come back and strike all those who weren't immunized. Tough break for them, I'd say.
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