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Old 11-26-2008, 08:56 AM
 
3,842 posts, read 6,691,470 times
Reputation: 3114
This is a serious issue...not b/c of the breast is best debate nor that most women are beyond well aware that breast milk is best...but that for the women who have choosen and are good women & good people & good moms with infants who are on formula that they DO NOT need to justify to any of us...

Small traces is definite concern...

Instead of the nasty debate, maybe a little compassion would be nice & a hope that this is quickly taken care of for there are children out there on formula who are loved no less nor less worthy than those who have choosen to breastfeed.

Thousands of infants became ill in China. What an awful thing.

Let us just hope that this is a random case & not something that will cause damage or illness to children.

I love how we can all sit here & assume for EVERY mother out there who puts her child on formula. Who made any of the supreme being with all the right answers?

Compassion & tolerance for those who do not live according to your word.

Unless you personally know every single mother who has decided not to breastfeed & lived their life & are raising their children...to attack them that "formula isn't even second best"? How cruel & intolerant!

You have made your choice & THANK goodness your children are healthy. Maybe take a moment to step out of the ring of self-rightouesness & hope for those moms who have made their choices that their children stay healthy.

I have been blessed enough for that with both children I have had the support & time to breastfeed. I have NO CLUE what it is like to return to the workplace when my baby is 6 weeks old & have to pump enough for the day. I have no clue what it is like to have a situation where breastfeeding is not an option due to family or life circumstances. But I surely have every right to tell them how awful it is that they are putting toxins in their babies bodies...yep...that makes a lot of sense & makes me feel so good & right about myself.

Oh, yeah, we are prior military & it's really hard to pump breastmilk & get it to your child when you are deployed to a foreign country or on missions that take you from home for 3-4 weeks. Women in the military are given 8 weeks of maternity leave & within 12 weeks can be deployed & most times are deployed within 12-16 weeks. I know they love leaving their babies behind & putting them on formula, ESPECIALLY SINCE IT IS NOT EVEN SECOND BEST!!" It was really easy for a friend of ours whose husband was killed in Iraq & she delivered their 1st baby 3 weeks later to decide to not breastfeed based on her circumstances & she cried her eyes out when a women at a group memorial service told her "Oh, your not nursing?" I was standing there & was revolted. It's not your darn business.

I just hope that this is a scare & with the advances we have in our country it can be halted.

Last edited by 121804; 11-26-2008 at 09:06 AM..
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Old 11-26-2008, 09:18 AM
 
4,267 posts, read 2,947,290 times
Reputation: 3579
It's really scary what is happening to our food supply thanks to the FDA.
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Old 11-26-2008, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Mebane
2,469 posts, read 3,879,783 times
Reputation: 1985
Quote:
Originally Posted by regarese View Post
I like how they don't say WHAT formula it was found in.
According to a different article:
The FDA said melamine was found in Mead Johnson's Infant Formula Powder, Enfamil LIPIL with Iron, and a byproduct, cyanuric acid, was found in Nestlé's Good Start Supreme Infant Formula with Iron.

FDA Tests Find Melamine Traces in Baby Formula - WSJ.com
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Old 11-26-2008, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Mebane
2,469 posts, read 3,879,783 times
Reputation: 1985
Quote:
Originally Posted by 121804 View Post
Unless you personally know every single mother who has decided not to breastfeed & lived their life & are raising their children...to attack them that "formula isn't even second best"? How cruel & intolerant!
The statement that formula is 4th best is from the WHO. It's a medical statement, not one of moral judgement.
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Old 11-26-2008, 09:44 AM
 
1,363 posts, read 4,075,425 times
Reputation: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVentive View Post
According to a different article:
The FDA said melamine was found in Mead Johnson's Infant Formula Powder, Enfamil LIPIL with Iron, and a byproduct, cyanuric acid, was found in Nestlé's Good Start Supreme Infant Formula with Iron.

FDA Tests Find Melamine Traces in Baby Formula - WSJ.com

Thank you.
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Old 11-26-2008, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Maine
650 posts, read 1,398,153 times
Reputation: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by 121804 View Post
This is a serious issue...not b/c of the breast is best debate nor that most women are beyond well aware that breast milk is best...but that for the women who have choosen and are good women & good people & good moms with infants who are on formula that they DO NOT need to justify to any of us...

Small traces is definite concern...

Instead of the nasty debate, maybe a little compassion would be nice & a hope that this is quickly taken care of for there are children out there on formula who are loved no less nor less worthy than those who have choosen to breastfeed.

Thousands of infants became ill in China. What an awful thing.

Let us just hope that this is a random case & not something that will cause damage or illness to children.

I love how we can all sit here & assume for EVERY mother out there who puts her child on formula. Who made any of the supreme being with all the right answers?

Compassion & tolerance for those who do not live according to your word.

Unless you personally know every single mother who has decided not to breastfeed & lived their life & are raising their children...to attack them that "formula isn't even second best"? How cruel & intolerant!

You have made your choice & THANK goodness your children are healthy. Maybe take a moment to step out of the ring of self-rightouesness & hope for those moms who have made their choices that their children stay healthy.

I have been blessed enough for that with both children I have had the support & time to breastfeed. I have NO CLUE what it is like to return to the workplace when my baby is 6 weeks old & have to pump enough for the day. I have no clue what it is like to have a situation where breastfeeding is not an option due to family or life circumstances. But I surely have every right to tell them how awful it is that they are putting toxins in their babies bodies...yep...that makes a lot of sense & makes me feel so good & right about myself.

Oh, yeah, we are prior military & it's really hard to pump breastmilk & get it to your child when you are deployed to a foreign country or on missions that take you from home for 3-4 weeks. Women in the military are given 8 weeks of maternity leave & within 12 weeks can be deployed & most times are deployed within 12-16 weeks. I know they love leaving their babies behind & putting them on formula, ESPECIALLY SINCE IT IS NOT EVEN SECOND BEST!!" It was really easy for a friend of ours whose husband was killed in Iraq & she delivered their 1st baby 3 weeks later to decide to not breastfeed based on her circumstances & she cried her eyes out when a women at a group memorial service told her "Oh, your not nursing?" I was standing there & was revolted. It's not your darn business.

I just hope that this is a scare & with the advances we have in our country it can be halted.
Well, ADVentive beat me to the punch in pointing out that it is not my personal opinion that formula is 4th best, but the WHO.

121804, I have no problem with you personally, so I don't want you to think I am picking on you, but how is this issue any different than the vaccination thread? If you are taking an inherent and known risk to feed your child artificial milk, then shouldn't you have to accept the consequences of that choice? The same way that other posters keep jumping on me about choosing not to vaccinate due to the "reactions" that my children have experienced.

Obviously if formula in the US is tainted in some way, it is horrible and should be rectified quickly to avoid illness or death for these children. This entire thread has proved my point about our government being more concerned with their own pocket books than the welfare of innocent children. If they tell mothers that this product could be toxic, which we both know it could be, they are going to lose billions of dollars in formula sales. The exact same way that if they admitted that vaccines may not be as safe and effective as they let on, they would lose money. The FDA and all government agencies are only telling people what they want to hear in order to avoid mass chaos.

Doctors and medical professionals are making it too easy for women to give up on breastfeeding, or to not even try at all. If women had more information about what they are putting into their children's bodies and didn't have hospitals, doctors and formula companies handing out incentives and samples, maybe more women wouldn't be claiming to have so many problems with breastfeeding. Formula should be available as a last resort and by prescription only to women who legitimately cannot breastfeed. I say this as a mother who has experienced both sides of the coin, so I KNOW that in my case, it was lack of information and support that helped me to fail at breastfeeding.

Parenting is all about choices, and no one is going to agree 100% of the time. But, like has been pointed out to me several thousand times in the vaccine threads, you have to live with the consequences of those choices. If you choose not to breastfeed, and your child is affected by this poison, how is that any different than me choosing not to vaccinate and my child potentially getting pertussis? Some others have even said that it is survival of the fittest, so how come those words don't apply here as well? You can't have it both ways...
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Old 11-26-2008, 01:43 PM
 
3,842 posts, read 6,691,470 times
Reputation: 3114
[quote=2girlsand2boys;6323767] Formula should be available as a last resort and by prescription only to women who legitimately cannot breastfeed. I say this as a mother who has experienced both sides of the coin, so I KNOW that in my case, it was lack of information and support that helped me to fail at breastfeeding.
[quote]

I have volunteered at halfway house for women for several years. It is very difficult to breastfeed when you are working 2-3 parttime jobs that are very manual in nature or direct customer service. These women are just happy they are capable of surviving & possibly getting their infants off to a positive start instead of stuck in a negative cycle. Some of these women are still addicted or go back to their addictions & you do not want them breastfeeding their children.

They have also been told that breastmilk is the best source of nutrition but that their babies will grow & thrive on formula. I have been in the hospital for these births & I have never heard a nurse coerce a mother into formula. I've known moms to come out & say "I did a line of cocaine a few days ago, can I still nurse?" If these women are not in a state to completely stop taking drugs or drinking alcohol, you do not want them nursing. They are not being brainwashed by doctors or by nurses.

There are single moms out there working a full time job & part time job with one or more children. They do not have the support or time..so what, are they suppose to apply for formula??? At least they are caring for their children!!

My take on this is that this decision is much more complicated than vaccines. Many women cannot nurse due to legitimate reasons, so they give their children formula.

Most women, regardless of most circumstances, can choose to vaccinate or not vaccinate. Most women have much more control over this decision.

I just don't think anyone has the right to tell a mom who puts their child on formula what a horrible thing they are doing.

You chose to nurse. They chose to bottlefeed.

The word is "choice".

And as I have a habit of saying, actions have consequences. None of us are perfect nor are any of us doing 100% perfect all the time.

2Boysand2Girls, you have your take & you stand your ground. I don't take what you write personally though I will respond : )

My #2 was born the day after CMas & my dh put away the CMas lights & decorations last year...hence, I've spent 1/2 the day untangling lights & finding unwrapped glass ornaments, etc...back to that fun!!!

Let's all remember that compassion & tolerance is something that can help anyone
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Old 11-26-2008, 01:50 PM
 
13,779 posts, read 16,614,372 times
Reputation: 7234
Quote:
Originally Posted by regarese View Post
I like how they don't say WHAT formula it was found in.
When I heard the report on the news this morning the newscaster said the FDA WOULD NOT release the name of the brand involved...odds are, it will be easy to tell when a certain brand is missing...

Totally reckless on the FDA's part.
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Old 11-26-2008, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Maine
650 posts, read 1,398,153 times
Reputation: 542
[quote=121804;6325283][quote=2girlsand2boys;6323767] Formula should be available as a last resort and by prescription only to women who legitimately cannot breastfeed. I say this as a mother who has experienced both sides of the coin, so I KNOW that in my case, it was lack of information and support that helped me to fail at breastfeeding.
Quote:

I have volunteered at halfway house for women for several years. It is very difficult to breastfeed when you are working 2-3 parttime jobs that are very manual in nature or direct customer service. These women are just happy they are capable of surviving & possibly getting their infants off to a positive start instead of stuck in a negative cycle. Some of these women are still addicted or go back to their addictions & you do not want them breastfeeding their children.

They have also been told that breastmilk is the best source of nutrition but that their babies will grow & thrive on formula. I have been in the hospital for these births & I have never heard a nurse coerce a mother into formula. I've known moms to come out & say "I did a line of cocaine a few days ago, can I still nurse?" If these women are not in a state to completely stop taking drugs or drinking alcohol, you do not want them nursing. They are not being brainwashed by doctors or by nurses.

There are single moms out there working a full time job & part time job with one or more children. They do not have the support or time..so what, are they suppose to apply for formula??? At least they are caring for their children!!

My take on this is that this decision is much more complicated than vaccines. Many women cannot nurse due to legitimate reasons, so they give their children formula.

Most women, regardless of most circumstances, can choose to vaccinate or not vaccinate. Most women have much more control over this decision.

I just don't think anyone has the right to tell a mom who puts their child on formula what a horrible thing they are doing.

You chose to nurse. They chose to bottlefeed.

The word is "choice".

And as I have a habit of saying, actions have consequences. None of us are perfect nor are any of us doing 100% perfect all the time.

2Boysand2Girls, you have your take & you stand your ground. I don't take what you write personally though I will respond : )

My #2 was born the day after CMas & my dh put away the CMas lights & decorations last year...hence, I've spent 1/2 the day untangling lights & finding unwrapped glass ornaments, etc...back to that fun!!!

Let's all remember that compassion & tolerance is something that can help anyone
I'm glad to see that we can agree to disagree nicely.

However, I think that any mother who claims to have just done cocaine and is asking if she can nurse her newborn needs to have her baby removed from her care. Of course I don't advocate a nursing mother doing hard core drugs, but that woman does not deserve that baby. She must have been doing drugs while she was pregnant with that child too!

Untainted breastmilk shouldn't be a choice-- it is a child's birthright.

While I have never seen a nurse or dr. coerce a mother not to breastfeed, I have seen them provide NO support and hand over free formula samples. Nothing could be more detrimental to a postpartum, emotional woman, with a baby that refuses to latch on properly, than a case of free formula that the company sent to you in the mail before your baby was even born.

I was determined to nurse my oldest, and when I found no help, support, etc, and a lactation consultant suggested that I put cabbage in my bra to dry up my milk when I called for help about my screaming, starving baby, it is really easy to just give one bottle of that free formula in the closet. And just one bottle leads to poor milk supply, blocked dusts, mastitis, etc.... Ask me how I know!

I know single mothers that have successfully nursed their children well into toddlerhood. It is all about choice. If it is important enough to you, you will find a way to do it. Our society says that breastfeeding is unnecessary because you can just open this perfectly good can of artificial milk and life will be so much easier, so that is what many woman believe. They are also falsely told that there is a possibility that they won't be able to breastfeed, and I believe the % of woman who legitimately can't nurse is in the single digits percentage-wise.

My niece was born addicted to Morphine, which the doctors told my sister was completely safe (LIES! ALL LIES!) to take for her kidney stone issues during pregnancy. The hospital staff encouraged her to nurse in order to wean my niece (and my sister too) off of the drugs. Because of the drug my niece had no sucking reflex and had to be fed from a spoon. My sister did her damnedest to pump for her so that it was her milk she received instead of formula. It can be done.

When my nephew was born (not addicted to Morphine) he refused to nurse. He was severely jaundiced and almost dehydrated because he wouldn't nurse. After 2 weeks of agonizing pumping and the drs telling her to just give him formula, my sister relented and did. Knowing the benefits of breastmilk, she still offered him the breast first before each feeding and finally, after 2 weeks of formula, my nephew, who had NEVER nursed straight from the tap, was a nursing champ and has been nursing ever since (he's now 19 months). Then my sister had to rebuild her milk supply that had drastically decreased due to nephew not nursing. The first thing that the drs had said to her was that breastfeeding wouldn't be possible for her and that she should give up. SHe didn't listen and knew that since it was best for her son, she would do everything to make sure she gave it a wholehearted try. It IS possible for almost every woman to breastfed. I just don't think most put in half of the amount of effort that is needed.

AS for the comparisons between the choice to bf and vaccines, I think it is the same issue. I do not feel that I have the choice to vaccinate my child any longer. I feel that the doctor does not have her best interest at heart when he demands that she get her shots after the incident that I wrote about in the other thread. If that wasn't a reaction, I don't know what was. Do I have to wait for her to turn blue from teh vaccines in order for him to admit that it was a reaction? So, yes, I make the choice not to subject her to the potential harm that future vaccines could cause her. Mothers that are choosing to use formula are making the choice to provide substandard nutrition. You are right, we both have to live with the consequences.

Like I said, I am not ragging on you personally, I just get so fed up with the moms that are screaming that my baby is going to die from my choices, but their panties get all in a wad when someone picks on theirs. As long as everyone can live with their own choices and their consequences it is really a moot point. In this case, the consequence is that the formula might be laced with poison...
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Old 11-26-2008, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Mebane
2,469 posts, read 3,879,783 times
Reputation: 1985
Of course it is a choice to breastfeed or bottle feed. But that doesn't mean that the two choices have equal outcomes and should be treated equally. There are different kinds of choices we make in life. There are choices like, "should I paint the nursery green or yellow?" or "should I name my baby John or Elijah?" and there are choices like "should I smoke this cigarette next to my infant or not?" Just because something is a choice, does not mean that all options should be treated equally. Some choices are simple personal preference, but I don't think the choice of whether to breastfeed or formula feed should be treated that way.

But I don't think that's what this thread is really about. It's about the fact that a chemical has been found in a food that many, many infants consume many times per day. Regardless of why those parents chose formula, we know that those children are now exposed to this chemical. This chemical is known to have harmed many children in China earlier this year. The FDA said last month that there was no level of this chemical that could be present in infant formula without causing public health concerns. Yet today, the FDA says that the presence of this chemical is acceptable because of the small amount. Why the change in position? It seems to me that they just want to prevent a public panic, and that really bothers me.
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