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Though I agree having kids can be selfish (getting knocked up for financial security) and it can be altruistic (being a surrogate), procreating is not meant to be atruistic or charitable. It is our God given right and, for the most part, instinctual. We are born with the plumbing for a reason.
You were born with an appendix too. We don't need to use everything we were born with. Some parts/functions are optional.
Children are not a "God given right". They are people and we are obligated to do right by them if we choose to bring them into this world. They're not toys God promised us. They are not something we have a right to. What we are is responsible if we choose to have them and that means making darned sure you're in position to give them the best start in life given that we are the ones who chose to burden them with whatever life we've handed to them. They don't have a choice and it's not your God given right to have them. They're not some perk in life you were promised by God. They're people.
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
How arrogant is it to think you have a God given right to have kids. What are they, some kind of perk we're promised in life?
They're people and we need to think long and hard and make sure we're ready to have them before we burden them with the life we hand them. They, unfortunately, for better or for worse, have to live with our choices.
Good grief, people. READ. We are equipped for procreation, so it is a God given right for those of us who are able to procreate. I never said anything about having babies just because we can. It's is not a right anyone should abuse or take for granted.
Good grief, people. READ. We are equipped for procreation, so it is a God given right for those of us who are able to procreate. I never said anything about having babies just because we can. It's is not a right anyone should abuse or take for granted.
I did read. You called having children a God given right. Apparently, God picks and chooses who has this right based on whether or not the plumbing works . How arrogant.
The plumbing working doesn't mean God gave you the RIGHT to have kids. It just means you're lucky the plumbing works. It speaks nothing to what you have a right to.
You were born with an appendix too. Does that mean you have a God given right to get appendicitis?
Edited to add:
I wish it did work that way. That would mean being born with a brain would mean we had a God given right to use it . That would eliminate a lot of these debates wouldn't it?
I did read. You called having children a God given right. Apparently, God picks and chooses who has this right based on whether or not the plumbing works . How arrogant.
The plumbing working doesn't mean God gave you the RIGHT to have kids. It just means you're lucky the plumbing works. It speaks nothing to what you have a right to.
You were born with an appendix too. Does that mean you have a God given right to get appendicitis?
Edited to add:
I wish it did work that way. That would mean being born with a brain would mean we had a God given right to use it . That would eliminate a lot of these debates wouldn't it?
Perhaps we are getting a bit too literal here. Unfortunately, people DO have the right to procreate as they see fit. (Obviously, there are physical impairments that can severely impact their efforts.) There was a thread recently that spoke of requiring people to be licensed before they could become a parent. While something like that would of course, never come to pass (at least not in THIS country) it sure would get my vote.
You were born with an appendix too. Does that mean you have a God given right to get appendicitis?
I find the appendix issue tie in very well with this issue. We do not need an appendix and some are born without. Evolution has also been able to kill diseases and viruses too some are born immune to AIDs and their was another virus that was eradicated due to evolution I forgot it happened in Europe 100s of years ago.
My point is that the only thing that evolution has been slow to catch up with is reproduction. We do not need to reproduce at 12 because we now live a lot longer then 25. Vast majority of us do not live in tribes and do not go out and hunt our food. The world is overpopulated and we are seeing people make it to 100+ in record numbers.
I do not think it is a god given right I think it is an evolutionary flaw. Even if evolution caught up with the fact that we no longer need to reproduce as much as we once did people will turn to science way before they walk into an orphanage.
Someone once said "there are lies, damn lies, and statistics". You can't plan your life around statistics. You can't go into a marriage thinking about the number of divorces. Ivory suggests if you get married at 24 you should wait 'til 30 to have children to see if the marriage "sticks". If that's your plan, you probably shouldn't have gotten married to begin with.
So people should wait until they're well-educated and well off financially before they have children? Only 27% of Americans have a college degree. So 73% shouldn't have kids?
This is preposterous. If a couple want to have children in their 20's, who are you to tell them they're selfish.
Perhaps we are getting a bit too literal here. Unfortunately, people DO have the right to procreate as they see fit. (Obviously, there are physical impairments that can severely impact their efforts.) There was a thread recently that spoke of requiring people to be licensed before they could become a parent. While something like that would of course, never come to pass (at least not in THIS country) it sure would get my vote.
While I admit that sometimes I wish some people didn't have children, I would never vote for anything that would allow the anyone to administer medical treatment--especially abortion of all things--on an unwilling person. That kind of thinking scares the bejeezus out of me. I imagine there's a few people in this thread who would rather I had aborted my disabled daughter.
I'm glad that would never happen in this country. I'm willing to endure the occasional wacko to preserve my freedom ... I'm selfish like that.
It would stand to reason that if God chose to give me a working uterus, he is giving me the right to use it. I do not have the right to abuse it or be irresponsible with it. But I already said that, twice.
My point got lost in the fog. Having children is not meant to serve the greater good, to be charitable or altruistic - though it can be if we choose to. The desire to have children is not selfish - though it can be.
Also, the "50% of marriages end in divorce" is a myth. It's based on bad math. It's true that the current divorce rate is about half the current marriage rate, but most of those divorces are occurring among people who are already married, and those people are not part of the current rates. All you can do is look at married people who subsequently got divorced, at that number peaked at about 40% in the 80s. It's been going down ever since.
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. That would eliminate a lot of these debates wouldn't it?
Unfortunately, people DO have the right to procreate as they see fit. (Obviously, there are physical impairments that can severely impact their efforts.) There was a thread recently that spoke of requiring people to be licensed before they could become a parent. While something like that would of course, never come to pass (at least not in THIS country) it sure would get my vote. 
