The Sex Talk (teens, teaching, babies, pregnant)

[the3Ds]

I watched Oprah last week and yesterday was a continuation of the "sex talk" conversation. I truly had an "ah-ha" moment but was curious to know what everyone else thought. I suppose parents of boys could join in but most of this is for parents of girls.

Her show focused on what kids already know and when to start having the "talk". Basically, the doctor interviewed middle school girls and asked them about things from "sexting" to what is considered "first base" versus a "home run." They also had a mother of a 10 years old who just gave the basic functions of body parts and what things like a menstrual cycle and a male erection was (as well as the very mechanical discussion about how babies are made).

What was shocking is the casualness that girls mentioned oral sex. It was considered second base. Gawd. And of course, it was done by girls TO boys (and not the other way around). The point of her show, though, was to explain to parents that your kids already know a lot by the time they are 12 or 13 and to avoid having the talk leads them to look for answers from those who may not have the same expectations that you have.

So, my "ah-ha" moment was when the doctor talked about teaching your daughters about self-gratification. How, if they own their own sexual feelings, they will be less likely to get caught up in the moment when their first boyfriend starts "turning them on" to continue it to the next level.

I thought about my own experience (which was at age 20) with a boy I had been dating for a few months in college. I had had a few boyfriends before in high school but never had progressed to the serious sexual level with any of them. The boy I ended up losing my virginity to was the one I started some serious making out with and as I got more and more turned on, I kept letting us get farther and farther down the road to intercourse. When I lost my virginity, I remember saying "I love you" to him, which after the height of passion dropped, I knew was not true. I liked him a lot, but the "love" word popped out because the feelings of arousal.

I think the idea of the "don't do it" lecture is a good one, but has to be realistic. I think that there is a reasonable expectation of telling your child to wait until they are older or in a more serious relationship (or whatever context you'd like to frame it in) but also to expect that they will start heavy petting with a boyfriend (which could lead down the path to intercourse). I think there is a fine line between education and permission, but as a parent of 2 daughters (both are still fairly young, but the conversation will be here before you know it), I am wondering what others here think of explaining to my daughters about sexual feelings so that they aren't thinking that the only way to feel them is from a boy.

I'm sure that this is going to get edited by the moderators, but the frank question is this: Should you teach your daughter how to give herself an orgasm so that when she starts feeling serious arousal, she isn't under the impression that only her boyfriend can do that to her? To pretend that kids don't pleasure themselves is silly as I know tons of parents of boys who say that their sons would stay in their rooms all day if they could. Most of the time, it's not in the feeling of sexual sensation...most babies do it for self-soothing.

Anyway, just looking for the line between expecting my child to wait until she is mature enough to handle the feelings and possible outcomes of sex, but also knowing that if her school mates think that oral sex is only second base, then we are going to be climbing a pretty steep hill with our daughters.

[stormy night]

Boys come by masturbation naturally, but with girls, it's different. Most girls are TAUGHT by their mothers that 'down there' is not to be touched by ANYONE. They get the impression that 'down there' talk is dirty. It's extremely difficult for a girl to grow up with a healthy view of masturbation unless they are comfortable with their bodies and their needs from an early age.

I have always been so dumbfounded by "THE TALK". In our house it started when they were babies and grew from there. Every question was answered with honesty and accuracy. Nothing about our bodies have ever been a mystery with my kids. Ever.

My 15 year old knows about masturbation. Whether she does it or not is not known by me, but she knows. We talk about every subject, yet we've never had 'the talk'. We talk all the time, and sometimes the subject matter is sex. Always has been.

[the3Ds]

Originally Posted by stormy night

Boys come by masturbation naturally, but with girls, it's different. Most girls are TAUGHT by their mothers that 'down there' is not to be touched by ANYONE. They get the impression that 'down there' talk is dirty. It's extremely difficult for a girl to grow up with a healthy view of masturbation unless they are comfortable with their bodies and their needs from an early age.

I have always been so dumbfounded by "THE TALK". In our house it started when they were babies and grew from there. Every question was answered with honesty and accuracy. Nothing about our bodies have ever been a mystery with my kids. Ever.

My 15 year old knows about masturbation. Whether she does it or not is not known by me, but she knows. We talk about every subject, yet we've never had 'the talk'. We talk all the time, and sometimes the subject matter is sex. Always has been.

I think it's hard for moms to talk to their daughters because most of us don't know what's "down there" either. For example, the area we refer to as our "vaginas" is actually the "vulva". The doctor made a point to put a diagram on the Oprah website to print out when talking to your kids. You're right about talking openly because by making girls "private" parts seem dirty, we are making them feel ashamed and many of us don't get over that until much later in life (if at all).

[wyoquilter]

I would have a terrible time having a discussion about self gratification with my kids. It is one thing I could never get into and have never really thought about doing. It had absolutely nothing to do with the way I was raised either. My female parts were never talked about as being private and or dirty or doing so is wrong, yadda yadda. I just have always thought of masterbating and self grtification as being gross and the thought of it makes me feel ill instead of turned on or satisfied. But this thought only applies to me personally as I do not think others are gross if they do it to themselves. I know that it is natural for many people to self gratify, but it has never felt natural to me. Whenever I hear someone sarts talking about doing so, I start to think about myslef doing it and it just makes my skin crawl and all queezy and I change the subject with whoever is talking about it. As I type this, I'm already feeling ill, so I will quit.

I just wanted to say, that having a self gratification conversation with my children will have to be conversated with someone else besides me.

[skahar]

Ooohhh I don't know if I could have that kind of talk either. My daughter (15) is pretty open with asking questions about things she doesn't understand so if she were to ask I would talk about it but I don't think I could bring it up.

On a side note about the oral sex, she recently said something to me about that. She said the grossest thing she ever heard of was a boy doing it to a girl. My first reaction was "what are you kids talking about?" I have also heard that the oral sex is prevalent among teens because they don't consider it sex so I asked her what she thought of it being the other way around. Thankfully she wasn't keen on that idea either but the other way just seemed too disgusting for her.

I wasn't going to try to change her mind on that though I'm sure she'll figure it out on her own one day...very, very, very far into the future...I hope!

[the3Ds]

I should have rephrased the "teaching my daughter to pleasure herself." Not sure if I could go there either. I guess I meant "should I not make a big deal out of it if my daughter masturbates?" I see my daughter with her hands down her pants probably a few times a week. I always say, "get your hands out of your pants" but I know she is not doing it to pleasure herself sexually...she's doing it because it feels good. I'm not sure I want to let her just do it anywhere, but I have no doubt she does it in her room. I suppose I want to find the line between being "overly open" mom and being the "your private parts are gross and should only be touched by your husband" mom.

Incidentally, I had my first orgasm when I was young...I was on a horse and the rhythm and pressing up on the saddle just did it for me. Don't think I still don't love riding a horse but I remember that "ZING" moment so clearly. It had nothing to do with sex...it just felt amazing.

Lots of things can give a girl an orgasm but the point of the Oprah show was that if your daughter starts making out with her boyfriend, she is going to find a way to continue to feel good. That's why so many girls lose their virginity at a young age (and certainly before they're ready). They feel good kissing, then it feels good to progress and eventually, there's nowhere else to go besides intercourse. Teaching your daughter about an orgasm means that she is not continuing down a path towards the ever-exciting unknown.

[the3Ds]

Originally Posted by skahar

On a side note about the oral sex, she recently said something to me about that. She said the grossest thing she ever heard of was a boy doing it to a girl.

Thankfully she wasn't keen on that idea either but the other way just seemed too disgusting for her.

Right, but what shocked me is that girls don't think it's "gross" to perform oral sex on a boy. From the interviews with the girls on Oprah, all boys in their school know who will do that to them and the girls who don't seem to have a problem with it (and certainly don't connect it to anything resembling caring or "love") find themselves doing it to a few boys EACH DAY.

The girl's logic was that you can't get pregnant by performing oral sex so it's not sex. Hmmm...

Imagine THAT phone call from your daughter's school..."your kid has been caught performing oral sex in the bathroom". What still shocked me was that it is considered SECOND BASE!!!

Thank you, Bill Clinton. I voted for him (twice) but who knew that his "depends on your definition of the word "is"" would lead us down the road as defining oral sex as casually as a handshake?

And why would performing oral sex on a boy be less gross than doing it to a girl? I think it's important to ask your daughter that question. I imagine it would probably include a comment about urine coming from "down there" or something like that, so it is important to explain that just because boys have something on the outside of their bodies doesn't mean it has a different function than female body parts. Plus, let's not forget that teenage boys aren't exactly the "cleanest" people on the planet. My sister has to remind her son constantly to change his underwear and put on deodorant whereas her daughter spends hours in the shower and compulsively grooming.

[stormy night]

Originally Posted by wyoquilter

I would have a terrible time having a discussion about self gratification with my kids. It is one thing I could never get into and have never really thought about doing. It had absolutely nothing to do with the way I was raised either. My female parts were never talked about as being private and or dirty or doing so is wrong, yadda yadda. I just have always thought of masterbating and self grtification as being gross and the thought of it makes me feel ill instead of turned on or satisfied. But this thought only applies to me personally as I do not think others are gross if they do it to themselves. I know that it is natural for many people to self gratify, but it has never felt natural to me. Whenever I hear someone sarts talking about doing so, I start to think about myslef doing it and it just makes my skin crawl and all queezy and I change the subject with whoever is talking about it. As I type this, I'm already feeling ill, so I will quit.

I just wanted to say, that having a self gratification conversation with my children will have to be conversated with someone else besides me.

Wow, you have some kind of hangup about sex. It came from somewhere. That kind of thinking doesn't come from the air you breathe. How can you comfortably talk with your kids about sex when you are so very uncomfortable with your body?

Originally Posted by the3Ds

... I always say, "get your hands out of your pants" but I know she is not doing it to pleasure herself sexually...she's doing it because it feels good.

Sexuality is a whole realm of things, not just the act of sex itself. Masturbating is in that realm. By telling your daugher to get her hands out of her pants most likely makes her feel embarrassed and it will affect the way she looks at sex. Maybe you can explain to her that that's an ok thing to do, but it's a private thing and should be done in her room in private.

It's the perfect opportunity to give her information she needs.

Incidentally, I had my first orgasm when I was young...I was on a horse and the rhythm and pressing up on the saddle just did it for me. Don't think I still don't love riding a horse but I remember that "ZING" moment so clearly. It had nothing to do with sex...it just felt amazing.

Again, in that realm of sexuality, but not sex itself.

Lots of things can give a girl an orgasm but the point of the Oprah show was that if your daughter starts making out with her boyfriend, she is going to find a way to continue to feel good. That's why so many girls lose their virginity at a young age (and certainly before they're ready). They feel good kissing, then it feels good to progress and eventually, there's nowhere else to go besides intercourse. Teaching your daughter about an orgasm means that she is not continuing down a path towards the ever-exciting unknown.

It makes sense to talk to daughters about masturbating and making it something they can feel comfortable about doing in private. If they know they can get the same feeling from themselves, boys won't seem like such a necessity.

[stormy night]

Originally Posted by the3Ds

Right, but what shocked me is that girls don't think it's "gross" to perform oral sex on a boy.

And why would performing oral sex on a boy be less gross than doing it to a girl? I think it's important to ask your daughter that question. I imagine it would probably include a comment about urine coming from "down there" or something like that, so it is important to explain that just because boys have something on the outside of their bodies doesn't mean it has a different function than female body parts. Plus, let's not forget that teenage boys aren't exactly the "cleanest" people on the planet.

For kids to grow up with a healthy view of sex, something almost every adult enjoys at one time or another, they cannot view it as gross or dirty.

Wouldn't it be better to teach them that oral or not, sex is something not meant for kids. It's something very intimate that people share and when it's time, the kid will have that opportunity, but in the meantime, masturbation will give the same feeling. When they're all grown up they can make the decision to share that feeling with someone else.

If you make it dirty and gross (although it's a way to appeal to a teen), you make it dirty and gross forever, not just when they're teens. Women especially, grow up with a lot of problems because they feel their sexuality is dirty and wrong. They might have sex, but for the wrong reasons and it's an entirely different experience.

Your daughter telling you it's dirty and gross is different than you telling her it is. I don't think it's wise that the message a mother gives her daughter is that sex itself is dirty and gross.

[djacques]

A close female friend of mine once confided she learned how to masturbate at age 9 by sticking her hind end under the bath faucet while it was running.

I'm a big sexual liberal and everything, but I'm a little surprised that anyone would think they had to specifically encourage their kids to do it. Everyone I know discovered it quite well on their own, lol.