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Old 04-29-2009, 03:10 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,755,085 times
Reputation: 2524

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackyfrost01 View Post
So its ok for a policeman or your boss at work to hit us when things don't go right and as a last resort using that logic? Why is it only okay to hit kids? Because they are little and defenseless against us larger people? I notice no one tries to hit their teenagers. Is it because they hit back and it hurts when they do it? Its easy to be a bully and use rationalization when your bigger and can overpower the person your doing it to.
Comparing apples and oranges here.

One is adults and the other groups children.
Adults are on their own in the sense of responsibility. If they do something wrong like or make a mistake, overall they have the mental maturity to be told they did wrong and the next time they could get fired.

At times a policeman does use force to get person in line. There may be a time when a child gets a spank to get him/her in line also.

It was a time I saw my teenage girls did not need spanking anymore because they had more mental maturity and they had more developed rational skills. At that stage they would think twice of disobeying if they cannot talk on the phone.

There are some strong minded kids that may require physical restrian and maybe a spank to get them to think. At that level they do no reason. You may tell them you will take their toys away but it may not have the same effect when done to a teenager.

Kids are not stupid also. At their age level they can sense when they did wrong and got that spank.

A teenager example though. I will tell you the story one of my Soldiers told me about spanking. This guy was about 35 years old when he told me the story.
He told me his older brother was about 15 or 16. The time to start challenging mom and dad. His father told him to do something. His brother said "No, I am not going to do it". The father asked him "What did you just say!" The son repeated what he said. The father grabbed him by the shirt, lift him up and pinned him against the wall. He than asked him "Are you a boy or are you a man!" The son said "Why dad?!" The father said "Because if you are a boy, I will spank you like a boy, but if you are a man, I will beat the ***** out of you like a man! So what are you?! A boy or a man?!". The son said "I am a boy Dad! I am a boy Dad!" So he spanked him.
My Soldier said that made such an impact on him he would never dare disrespect his dad not even to that day at 35.
He said it was a good leason to see that scene and show respect for his father, mother, and his school teachers because his father used to go to school to find out how they were doing and he would never want a teacher to tell his dad he was disrespectful.

From my standpoint, there is a time and place where spanking may be necessary but the child needs to see discipline, not cruelty. There is a difference.

Now, my middle daughter was the strong willed one. When a couple of ocassion she new she earned a spanking, I had to chase her all over the house until I got hold of her. In her mind she later in life told me that I was going to work hard to spank her. I sure did. Once I got hold of her I probably spent a few minutes to put her in my lap and spank her in the only place I would, on her butt only two or three. By the time I was done I was sweating after all the chasing and wresting with her to put her in the spanking position.
Now she is 29 and when we talk about it she laugh so much remembering those times. She also tells me she new she deserved it. She is not traumatized at all. She is now a social worker and she has told me how some of the kids she has dealt with would benefit from a nice spanking but of course a parent now can go to jail for doing so. Sadly, many kids are the ones ending in jail when adults because no one wanted to give them a good shake up so they got used to do whatever they want.

I do a lot volunteer time at a local elementary school and many of those kids know that even if a teacher raises a voice they can complain to mom or dad so the parents immediately complain how a child was so hurt.

Look around and see how much the child is considered as an adult now to the point that many parents have their hands tied.

I spent two years as a First Sergeant in Korea from '01 to '03. I had to deal with the lack of parenting many of these Soldiers had. I ended up being a brother, father, etc. to many of these young man that had no parenting. You know what many of them told me? "I wish my mom and dad give me some good spanking. If they had done that, I would not be the way I am now."

You have a great day.
El Amigo

 
Old 04-29-2009, 03:16 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,755,085 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelly Nomad View Post
Please don't take this the wrong way, El Amigo, because I'm getting the impression from your post that you're not a "slap the taste out of their mouth" type of spanking parent. But I'm curious. Why did you cry after administering the spankings? What caused the tears?

Can you name the emotion?
Because I loved my child and even though I felt I was doing her a the right type of dicipline I hurt spanking a girl I loved so much. It is kind of interesting because now that you asked and I am now writing this I felt the emotion coming back again, no I am not crying but I have the same feeling in my eyes.

I guess when they call it tough love it applies to both the child and the parent. That is as best as I can describe it.
Well, maybe another example may help. I do not know your children's ages but if you ever had to deny them something and they cried or hurt, you did feel something, right? At least I did even though I knew I was making the right decision. That is as best as I can describe it.
It is possible that if I had sons I probably did not feel the emotion as much as with a girl. Those girls are my world and my life.

You have a great day.
El Amigo
 
Old 04-29-2009, 03:27 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,755,085 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelly Nomad View Post
From what I'm reading, it sounds to me as if those of you who spank contend that spanked children grow up to be moral, upstanding, law-abiding, respectful citizens. And children who are not spanked grow up to be spoiled brats, lazy, disrespectful narcissists and undisciplined degenerates.

What evidence do you have?
Does not apply to me. You are making an inclusive comment on all of us. At least some of us have said spanking is an option. Did you read that part?

There is physical cruelty that has not value and there is physical punishment that can impact on young individual if done properly and that young individual associates that spaninkg with consequences.

However, I do believe that a general consequence of not allowing to spank children due to fear of the law took away an option from parents and many children know that and use it to their advantage. Also at times they missed learning there are consequences for doing wrong when that wrong may be extreme that may require a more harsh method of discipline.

You have a great day.
El Amigo
 
Old 04-29-2009, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,191,291 times
Reputation: 4103
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
However, I do believe that a general consequence of not allowing to spank children due to fear of the law took away an option from parents and many children know that and use it to their advantage.
Keep in mind that while the fear on the part of parents is real, the law actually protects and codifies the right of parents to spank. Most parents don't know that, however, and will believe whatever a social worker tells them.
 
Old 04-29-2009, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,191,291 times
Reputation: 4103
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
A teenager example though. I will tell you the story one of my Soldiers told me about spanking. This guy was about 35 years old when he told me the story.
He told me his older brother was about 15 or 16. The time to start challenging mom and dad. His father told him to do something. His brother said "No, I am not going to do it". The father asked him "What did you just say!" The son repeated what he said. The father grabbed him by the shirt, lift him up and pinned him against the wall. He than asked him "Are you a boy or are you a man!" The son said "Why dad?!" The father said "Because if you are a boy, I will spank you like a boy, but if you are a man, I will beat the ***** out of you like a man! So what are you?! A boy or a man?!". The son said "I am a boy Dad! I am a boy Dad!" So he spanked him.
My Soldier said that made such an impact on him he would never dare disrespect his dad not even to that day at 35.
Great story...I don't know where people get the idea that teenagers never get spanked. They certainly do!
 
Old 04-29-2009, 03:33 PM
 
11,614 posts, read 19,711,659 times
Reputation: 12046
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Does not apply to me. You are making an inclusive comment on all of us. At least some of us have said spanking is an option. Did you read that part?

There is physical cruelty that has not value and there is physical punishment that can impact on young individual if done properly and that young individual associates that spaninkg with consequences.

However, I do believe that a general consequence of not allowing to spank children due to fear of the law took away an option from parents and many children know that and use it to their advantage. Also at times they missed learning there are consequences for doing wrong when that wrong may be extreme that may require a more harsh method of discipline.

You have a great day.
El Amigo
I don't think spanking is against the law (nor do I think it should be).

If children miss learning that there are consequences for doing wrong it is because there were no consequences. Spanking is not the only way to ensure that kids understand there are consequences to their actions.
 
Old 04-29-2009, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Here... for now
1,747 posts, read 2,618,878 times
Reputation: 1208
A few posts ago, I wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelly Nomad View Post
From what I'm reading, it sounds to me as if those of you who spank contend...
To which El Amigo has responded:
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Does not apply to me. You are making an inclusive comment on all of us...
While I vehemently disagree with most of the other opinions expressed by El Amigo on the subject of spanking, on this point, you are wholly correct. My statement did sound all-inclusive and portrayed spankers as a monolithic group. A better opening statement for that post would have been:
"From what I'm reading, it sounds to me as if many of you who spank contend..."
I'm still a staunch anti-spanker and it is highly unlikely that anyone will EVER be able to sway me from that opinion. There are many other methods by which one can help a child develop self-discipline (to me, that;'s the goal of "discipline"). In my experience, I have never heard any compelling evidence that would convince me that hitting a child can be justified.
 
Old 04-29-2009, 05:37 PM
 
1,867 posts, read 3,598,380 times
Reputation: 589
So y'all actually pull your kids' pants down and spank them on their naked butts? I dunno, it sounds really strange to people who dont do it. And I'm no softy, but its just weird.. And especially the person who said that spanking teenagers like this is also normal?
 
Old 04-30-2009, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,191,291 times
Reputation: 4103
Quote:
Originally Posted by quelinda View Post
So y'all actually pull your kids' pants down and spank them on their naked butts?
Why would you spank a kid over his pants? The pants didn't do anything wrong, lol.

Quote:
I dunno, it sounds really strange to people who dont do it. And I'm no softy, but its just weird.. And especially the person who said that spanking teenagers like this is also normal?
It depends on what you mean by normal; "normal" is a tricky concept. Some people might argue that spanking kids at all is not "normal" in America today because it has become so taboo, although many parents still practice it. How do you judge that though? "Normal" is not the same as "common"; left-handedness or an AB- blood type are not common but nobody calls them "abnormal". So we have to define what is being talked about as "normal" before we tackle that.
 
Old 04-30-2009, 10:09 AM
 
Location: In My Own Little World. . .
3,238 posts, read 7,817,526 times
Reputation: 1596
Quote:
Originally Posted by quelinda View Post
So y'all actually pull your kids' pants down and spank them on their naked butts? I dunno, it sounds really strange to people who dont do it. And I'm no softy, but its just weird.. And especially the person who said that spanking teenagers like this is also normal?
To those of us who don't spank, (and never found a need to), it doesn't only sound really strange, it sounds barbaric.

No matter how many justifications a person comes up with, it still comes down to a very large person hitting a very small person. Parents are supposed to love and nuture, not cause pain.

And to those of you who say it's not against the law, when I adopted my children, DH and I had to sign an agreement to NEVER spank/hit/cause physical harm to the child we were adopting. Spanking doesn't happen in my family anyway, so the agreement was redundant, but it was necessary for the adoption to go forward.
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