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Old 04-30-2009, 12:03 PM
 
11,614 posts, read 19,711,659 times
Reputation: 12046

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Quote:
Originally Posted by colleeng47 View Post
To those of us who don't spank, (and never found a need to), it doesn't only sound really strange, it sounds barbaric.

No matter how many justifications a person comes up with, it still comes down to a very large person hitting a very small person. Parents are supposed to love and nuture, not cause pain.

And to those of you who say it's not against the law, when I adopted my children, DH and I had to sign an agreement to NEVER spank/hit/cause physical harm to the child we were adopting. Spanking doesn't happen in my family anyway, so the agreement was redundant, but it was necessary for the adoption to go forward.
It may be a requirement of your adoption, but it is not a law.

 
Old 04-30-2009, 12:20 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,140,780 times
Reputation: 3579
I don't know anyone who "takes a belt to their kids". I don't know anyone who even spanks. I was spanked when I was a kid. I don't spank my own. I can understand the temptation to do so but there are so many other ways to discipline other then hitting. I'm surprised to see some of the comments here equating spanking to discipline. There are so many other ways to discipline.

I think it's bizarre that people find it OK to hit little kids when it's not OK to hit adults. I think that spanking makes kids comply out of fear. I want respect but I don't want my kids to fear me. I also think it sends mixed messages, "mommy can hit you but you may not hit anyone". How's that for confusing. Spanking seems like a quick fix to control behavior in the moment. I'm more concerned about the lessons my kid will learn in the long term. I'm looking at the big picture.
 
Old 04-30-2009, 03:15 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,755,085 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by quelinda View Post
So y'all actually pull your kids' pants down and spank them on their naked butts? I dunno, it sounds really strange to people who dont do it. And I'm no softy, but its just weird.. And especially the person who said that spanking teenagers like this is also normal?
I take it your question to be a rhetorical one. With that in mind I will say you are making an all inclusive inference so I will say I did not pull my kids pants down and spank them on their naked butt.

I have not read all the posts, I admit. Did someone admit to pulling the kids pants down? If not, I think you are reading too much into people statements.

Also, who said spanking teenagers is normal? Again, maybe I missed it. Because I may have spanked my children does not mean I think it is normal if in about 25 years of rearing them I probably spanked around fiver times.

You have a great day.
El Amigo
 
Old 04-30-2009, 03:35 PM
 
Location: So. of Rosarito, Baja, Mexico
6,571 posts, read 17,949,017 times
Reputation: 5919
Spanking or punishing small kids reminds me of a old joke I've told on C-D before.

A woman is in a dept store with a small child who is constantly getting into all the mdse and making a large mess. The woman is yelling at the kid who pays no attention to her.

A floor mgr walks over and says "madam...I see your having difficulty with your child...may I be of assistance?"

Woman replys "yes I would appreciate any help you might be able to give...he just won't listen to me"

Floor mgr leans over and wispers into the little boys ear.

The little boy quickly hides clutching his mothers dress without saying a word.

Woman asks "what did you say that made him react so quickly"?

Floor mgr replys "I told him that if he did not keep his dirty little hands too himself I was going to beat the holy S*** out of him".
 
Old 04-30-2009, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,191,291 times
Reputation: 4103
Quote:
Originally Posted by yodi View Post
I think it's bizarre that people find it OK to hit little kids when it's not OK to hit adults.
It's entirely ok for properly designated authorities to hit an adult under certain circumstances. It's true that we don't do corporal punishment in the justice system, but I don't see any good reason why we can't. I'd vote for it.


Quote:
I think that spanking makes kids comply out of fear. I want respect but I don't want my kids to fear me. I also think it sends mixed messages, "mommy can hit you but you may not hit anyone".
Is it a mixed message for someone to say "Mommy can drive but you can't drive"? Is it a mixed message to say "Mommy can vote but you can't vote"? Is it a mixed message to say "Mommy can use a butcher knife but you can't use a butcher knife"? Is it a mixed message to say "Mommy can drink alcohol but you can't drink alcohol:? Is it a mixed message to say "Mommy can stay up until midnight but you can't stay up until midnight?" Et cetera, ad infinitum.

Maybe all those are mixed messages, but that just means kids are perfectly capable of digesting mixed messages.
 
Old 04-30-2009, 04:17 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,755,085 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by yodi View Post
I don't know anyone who "takes a belt to their kids". I don't know anyone who even spanks. I was spanked when I was a kid. I don't spank my own. I can understand the temptation to do so but there are so many other ways to discipline other then hitting. I'm surprised to see some of the comments here equating spanking to discipline. There are so many other ways to discipline.

I think it's bizarre that people find it OK to hit little kids when it's not OK to hit adults. I think that spanking makes kids comply out of fear. I want respect but I don't want my kids to fear me. I also think it sends mixed messages, "mommy can hit you but you may not hit anyone". How's that for confusing. Spanking seems like a quick fix to control behavior in the moment. I'm more concerned about the lessons my kid will learn in the long term. I'm looking at the big picture.
You are correct, there are so many ways to discipline kids. Some of us do not exclude spanking.
This is how I relate spanking with discipline. First of all when a parent needs to spank, spanking must have a background and an environment that is appropriate.
Many people have a picture of spanking with the picture is portrayed in the news where kids are shown all beat up with bruises all over their bodies. In many of these cases that is abuse and cruelty.
There are parents that the first thing they do is get that belt out and make their children do what they want. To me that is not discipline. That is just making their kids do things out of fear.

However, with my kids they new my wife and I first asked for them to do things with respect and dignity. Now, if a child did not do it out neglect or forgetfullness, of course I would never spank her. How about she forgets all the time. Even then I never spanked them for that reason. Example: When one of our teenage daughters keep forgetting to turn off the iron and left it on a few times after constant reminders, I took her next to the iron and the ironing board and told her. I also raised my voice to stress the point. I said, "I do not appreciate you leaving this anymore. YOU will not forgive yourself is one day I, your Mom, and your sister end up all charred because you left the iron on! I will see how much you love us to take that chance on us." She never did it anymore. I raised it to another level than before just trying to be nice and tell her with constant reminders.
However, a one of them was about 9 or 10 flatly refused to do what my wife told her. She clearly showed disrespect for her mother and for her authority. I first told her she needed to do what her mother told her. She still refused and told me she was not going to do it. I still gave her a fair warning and told her I would have to make her do it by spanking her. she did not believe it and still refused. I grabbed her and spanked her one time on her butt. I then asked her if she was enough or should go further. She left and did what she was supposed to do. I did stop there. I told her to come to me later in the afternoon because we neede to talk.
I later sat down with her and told her we all are responsible to someone and bound to comply with orders to someone.
When we do not comply there are consequences. I then told her when she grows up and does not obey a boss all that happens is she will get fired. No need for the boos to spank her. All he needs to do is get another person to do the job. However, if she is an adult and goes to some sports event and decided to let us say cut in the line to the ticket and a police officer tells her she needs to go to the back of the line and she refuses, the officer will be right in physically removing her if she refuses and disobeys the authority he has. He will use the necessary force to make take her out of the line and she physically refuses and give him a hard time, he may have to hit her to restrain her if necessary.
I told her that when I spanked her is an idea that there may be situation where she needs to comply or physically made to comply when she is an adult. As an adult she will not have a mom and dad that will still love her after she gets some harsh treatment like that.
That is how I connect a spanking with discipline. You agree? Probably still not but that is how I relate a spanking with it but I also made sure she knew it. I spend the time to let her know and that is training and child development. You develop habits in children. Many of those habit are impressed in a child with teaching, coaching, training, and disicipline.
I also look at the picture, not just you. I look at a societal picture where I want to send my children as disciplined kids that respect community and society by obeying the laws we all have for the good of all.
Spanking was the last resort and they knew it. Their environment was one of praise also when they complied with the home rules and with school rules and general positive behavior expected of all of us. They saw there may be more positive environment than just spanking with no purpose.
I applied it and it worked for me. Some kids may need it more than others but done with discipline and loving care in mind, my children were not traumatized.
To me it is not bizarre the issue between using physical force on children and adults because it does happen. Adults do get physical restraint by the law if they cross a same line children may do. In the case of adults it may be too late as a learning tool but in children it can be when properly done.
I do not agree it is the easy way out. Not to me, to some it may be but not to me as I said.
I was had long term lesson impact on them when I spank them and I explained that to them.
The "I also think it sends mixed messages, "mommy can hit you but you may not hit anyone"." comment misses the point also. Mommy can spank to make her follow a rule but that does not mean she can spank anyone if she has not authority over anyone else to enforce rules like mommy does on her. No mixed signal if you explain that to them.
Again, if it worked with you not to spank, great! Good for you. But I do not agree with you assessing how a parent should parent and discipline their kids. Many of us got spanked and were not traumatized. Deep inside I know I deserved a good whipping and I knew even before I misbehaved. It shapped my habits and I appreciate my mom an dad did that for me.

I do believe part of the 'no spanking' mentality is due to the 'low self esteem' movement, the excessive mentality to make sure the child's feeling are not hurt, etc. that exists today. I just do not agree with so much people trying to make sure kids are not hurt or even told they cannot pass a grade because they will be traumatized for life. Heck! They will be so traumatized when they are adults and find out they are not the best thing since bread and water.

You have great day.
El Amigo
 
Old 04-30-2009, 04:54 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,755,085 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelly Nomad View Post
A few posts ago, I wrote:


To which El Amigo has responded:


While I vehemently disagree with most of the other opinions expressed by El Amigo on the subject of spanking, on this point, you are wholly correct. My statement did sound all-inclusive and portrayed spankers as a monolithic group. A better opening statement for that post would have been:
"From what I'm reading, it sounds to me as if many of you who spank contend..."
I'm still a staunch anti-spanker and it is highly unlikely that anyone will EVER be able to sway me from that opinion. There are many other methods by which one can help a child develop self-discipline (to me, that;'s the goal of "discipline"). In my experience, I have never heard any compelling evidence that would convince me that hitting a child can be justified.
I need to ask you a favor. Can you please explain to me how you can post different quotes from different people as you did above. I still do not know how to quote part of a post and how you post from different people.
I appreciate it if you could please help me do so.

You have a great day.
El Amigo
 
Old 04-30-2009, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Here... for now
1,747 posts, read 2,618,878 times
Reputation: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
I need to ask you a favor. Can you please explain to me how you can post different quotes from different people as you did above. I still do not know how to quote part of a post and how you post from different people.
I appreciate it if you could please help me do so.

You have a great day.
El Amigo
I'd be delighted to tell you how!

If you look at the bottom of most posts, you'll see 3 buttons on the right-hand side (if you're looking at your own posts, you'll see a 4th button, marked Edit as well). The biggest one says "Quote" and is the one with which you're already familiar . The middle one looks like a page with big quotation marks and a little plus sign on it. That's the one you need to use to make multi-part quotes.

Simply click that middle button on as many different posts as you're interested in quoting from. When you have enough, press the regular Reply button. That will open up a Reply box with all the quotes you tagged, ready for you to add your comments.

Hope that helps!

Oh, and by the way, that third bottom button? It allows you to do a Quick Reply. A Quick Reply a short Reply box right then and there (without taking you to a separate page). I don't think you can do as many edits on a Quick Reply as you can with a regular, full-blown Reply.
 
Old 04-30-2009, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Nova Scotia
458 posts, read 1,136,391 times
Reputation: 444
I do not spank my kids or use the belt, but I am strict to a degree without being overbearing . My parents did not use force on us either. My girls know I will not take any crap from them at all. One time my oldest threatened to call the Childrens Aid because I was being so unfair in a grounding. So I handed her the phone and said "Have at it, if you don't have the number I will look it up for you" She never tried it again.
 
Old 04-30-2009, 07:26 PM
 
Location: In My Own Little World. . .
3,238 posts, read 7,817,526 times
Reputation: 1596
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
I do believe part of the 'no spanking' mentality is due to the 'low self esteem' movement, the excessive mentality to make sure the child's feeling are not hurt, etc. that exists today. I just do not agree with so much people trying to make sure kids are not hurt or even told they cannot pass a grade because they will be traumatized for life. Heck! They will be so traumatized when they are adults and find out they are not the best thing since bread and water.

You have great day.
El Amigo
Not necessarily so. I come from a long line of "no spankers" going back to my mom who was born in the 1930s, and who was never hit by her parents. I doubt her mother knew what self esteem even meant. We just don't hit; never felt the need to.

I know it's hard for those of you who use corporal punishment to understand how some of us don't see the need for spankings. We are not raising brats, we just find other ways to deal with misbehavior.
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