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Old 05-01-2009, 10:57 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,755,085 times
Reputation: 2524

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelly Nomad View Post
Totally uncalled for, and unless I'm mistaken, a violation of C-D's ToS (personal attacks are not permitted). I'm not a mod so I have no authority here, but as a fellow C-D user, I'm politely requesting that you tone down the abrasiveness of your posts.

Disagree with people all you want, but please do it civilly.
I second that.

You have a great day.
El Amigo

 
Old 05-01-2009, 10:58 AM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,907 posts, read 34,973,454 times
Reputation: 42369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackyfrost01 View Post
I notice no one talks about hitting children that are tall enough to defend themselves.

Its easy to overpower an elementary school aged kid, isn't it? Not so easy to push around a high-schooler. Wonder why the spanking stops? Cuz they are too strong and can hit back? Just a guess.
There were a couple of posts about threatening to beat the **** out of older kids. Someone told a story of a dad who shoved his son up against the wall and threatened to beat him. So there have been a few.
 
Old 05-01-2009, 10:58 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,402,860 times
Reputation: 47449
if you wupt em at 8 you wont have to shoot em at 18.
 
Old 05-01-2009, 11:02 AM
 
1,577 posts, read 3,266,067 times
Reputation: 530
Thats fine, don't complain you have bratty teenagers then
 
Old 05-01-2009, 11:58 AM
 
Location: So. of Rosarito, Baja, Mexico
6,571 posts, read 17,949,017 times
Reputation: 5919
In the military when a group of soldiers line up to police the area of small twigs...cig butts?...bits of paper and whatever ...the correct term used was ("A******* and E***** ").

Wonder if the same term is applied today?

Speaking of military reminds me of a joke;

A still active master sgt would line up his small kids for inspection before they were allowed out to play.

There were three boys 8...6...and 4.

To the 8 yr old the sgt said "your shoes are not shined and that means NO TV tonight".

To the 6 yr old the sgt said "your buttons are not buttoned and there will be desert tonight"

To the 4 yr old the sgt said "you forgot to wash your face...brush your teeth...make your bed and that means you are restricted to your bed and room for the rest of the day".

The little 4 yr old says "sir...can I ask you a question?.

The sgt says "yes...what is it?"

The 4 yr old says "how can a person get out of this C******S*** Outfit?.

NOTE: Some people are not really aware of punishment or restrictions that are used later on in life. Every case is different and dealt with accordingly.

Steve
 
Old 05-01-2009, 12:04 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,755,085 times
Reputation: 2524
Discipline is a very hard job and subject. In this case spanking is a very controversial subject and can lead to strong disagreements.

However, I just summarize it as I have read and written in this thread.

Barbaric? It can be barbaric if spanking is not done properly. I am a volunteer as a Court Appointed Special Advocate (CASA) on behalf of neglected and abused children. I have seen the results of barbaric abuse some parents call discipline. I am with those of you that are against this.
Spanking is used properly can be a discipline method as a last option in some cases. That is just how I see it.

Not spanking a child I have no problem with also. If spanking is part of a bigger problem to the point that children do not learn discipline and feel they can disrespect authority because parents do not parent, that is just as bad also. It hurts the child and the "spanking" he or she will get later in life can be much worse than a coulple of hits on their butt.

In some cases I get the impression from many of those that do not agree with it as if those that do are so barbaric. That is not true. The results on both sides have shown to be positive.

Now, often people cite themselves as examples of why spanking is not necessary. Well, that is not enough evidence to say they are correct just as it not enough evidence to say that spanking works.

We raised three daughters and I used spanking. Results? The oldest one works with children on Youth Programs across the nation as a consultant to programs like the YMCA and the Army's Morale, Welfare and Recreation programs. The middle one? She graduated as a Social Worker. The youngest one graduates in two weeks with a major in psychology and will start her master's in family counseling.
Should I use our example that spanking works? No, not at all. I simply says it worked with us.

Some have said that you have to be more skilled to discipline with words only. Good for you. I am glad to see that.
Two points on this though:
All kids are not created the same so some may be blessed with kids that make it easier to raise without resorting to a spanking.
The second point maybe some of you parents are more skilled than I was. Well, I am glad for you. Maybe I did not get the skills in life to be a better parent than you are. Well, I did my best and my best resulted in raising three great citizens and wholesome adults with no traumas.

They are doing great and those around us have told my wife and I comments like "You raised her right". I am not looking back and wondered if I did the right thing when I spanked them. What is done is done and I not doing self psychoanalysing to see if I did right or not and I have no guilts, specially when I see our children working field related to kids and working in the community to make it better.

The bottom line to me spanking can be an option and to me produces good results because I know I used it properly.

I did notice some of the comments have been about us that spank in some all inclusive and as we do not get what you say. From my standpoint it does not apply to me. I do know where you are coming from. It is a good goal to not spank if necessary but it is, then use that option properly.

Physical force may be necessary at any level in life and at different age groups.

I think in some ways it does hurt a child for not teaching consequences. Sometimes consequences later in life can be very physical. A taste of that may impact in a child's mind if properly done.
What about respect for authority?
In a class I attended a teacher brought up the lack of discipline on children and lack of respect to authority. She said that during the year a 9 year old boy did not do much homework, and simply did not achieve the performance to go to the next grade. The child went to her and told her she needed to pass him. She told him why not. The child told her "You will pass me". The next day the mom went to the principle with the child. The teacher was called to the principle's office to explain why her decision. The principle did not have the intestinal fortitude to support the teacher so she told the teacher the child will go to the next grade. What happened next? The child turned to the teacher and said "You see *****, I told you I pass". What did the principal and the parent do? "Don't say that. That is not nice". In yesteryears a parent would have shown a child to not ever ever disrespect a teacher like that. Those type of methods did work and still work at the right time, place, and circumstances to teach a child to respect authority. How do you think that child be later in life with what he saw in the principle office. You may say they need to bring a psychriatic team, asses the child, give him classes, train him, don't buy the a toy, etc. Well, in some cases like this spank right there ojn the spot would have impressed the child he is not to behave that way and save a lot time, money, and waste of time because the child my not care much what all the experts on human behavior may tell him. It has worked before.

A childs emotional skills are not fully developed to rationalize as we adults do. For that reason in my opinion they may not fully comprehend the rational behind being respectfull or follow orders. In some cases behavior is shaped by a simple spanking. Later they will understand and even laugh about it with their friends when they talk about the spanking.

Physical force IS used on adults when it gets to the point where it is necessary. I am currently reading a book entitled "Crisis negotiations". It deals with handling hostage negotiation of all sorts from a husband locking himself with his wife and children with a gun, to an airplane hijack to a terrorist take over. It does give a brief history of how different situation have been handled from the years when going in an kill them was the norm. Studies do show that better methods can be used to save everybody's lives including the hostage taker, BUT! killing him is an option that stays there.
Some people argue if it was necessary to kill the hostage takers to save the captain three weeks ago. Life is important but at times a harsh decision may have to be made. They are taking hostages to get money, should we have killed them or not because the hostage takers are poor people desperate to survive. Well, I do feel sorry for them but at some point the captain life and well being was at stake. What do you want to do then? Bring an army of psychiatrists, negotiators and talk to them for how long? A year?

What if an adult on the street calls a cop a "pig"? Should the cop just keep going and do nothing or should we call a host of counselors to deal with that adult? No, the cop in my opinion will be right to arrest that individual for disrespect to the uniform he wears. If the individual refuses the cop may have to bring him down and punch him until he felt he has control of the situation.

The same with a child, you spank to enforce respect and to discipline when necessary, just the necessary force, not trowing him against a wall or whip him to a bloody pulp. That is not discipline.

You have a great day.
El Amigo
 
Old 05-01-2009, 12:12 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,755,085 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bagu View Post
In the military when a group of soldiers line up to police the area of small twigs...cig butts?...bits of paper and whatever ...the correct term used was ("A******* and E***** ").

Wonder if the same term is applied today?

Speaking of military reminds me of a joke;

A still active master sgt would line up his small kids for inspection before they were allowed out to play.

There were three boys 8...6...and 4.

To the 8 yr old the sgt said "your shoes are not shined and that means NO TV tonight".

To the 6 yr old the sgt said "your buttons are not buttoned and there will be desert tonight"

To the 4 yr old the sgt said "you forgot to wash your face...brush your teeth...make your bed and that means you are restricted to your bed and room for the rest of the day".

The little 4 yr old says "sir...can I ask you a question?.

The sgt says "yes...what is it?"

The 4 yr old says "how can a person get out of this C******S*** Outfit?.

NOTE: Some people are not really aware of punishment or restrictions that are used later on in life. Every case is different and dealt with accordingly.

Steve
Since you touched on the military. I have been in the Army 30 years. I do remember the "A******* and e*****" command. No, that is too harsh in todays Army.

The consequences? The Soldier discipline is very poor today because even raising a voice can result in some leaders having to explain himself.
You get so much training to the point that you are expected to be some trained psychologist so you know how to talk to them.
The intent is good but the services have to go along with society and society overall has become a touchy feelly society. A kinder and gentler society. It is all find and dandy but I simply we have gone to far the other end.
I read a book entitled "The death of grown up". It addresses how much parents in general have relinquish authority and the kids are running the house now. My social worker daughter is reading now. You may like to read it.

You have a great day.
El Amigo
 
Old 05-01-2009, 12:23 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,755,085 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Connecticut Pam View Post
Gheese Louise, I hope that no parent out there uses a belt on their kid. I am a product of a brutal father who used a belt, his hands, his fists, his feet to kick me and more. I can feel the sting to this day on my backside or across my legs from him beating on me. I can still see me curled up in a fetal position trying to deflect the blows...it was miserable. I never not ever laid a hand on my son because of all this and he grew up just fine...I truly hope that no parent ever feels the need to beat on their kid not ever!
Now, that is the type of so call "discipline" I not advocate and that is the picture seems some people see when they read the word spanking.
That is not discipline. It is cruelty and barbaric.

You have a great day.
El Amigo
 
Old 05-01-2009, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Baywood Park
1,634 posts, read 5,898,866 times
Reputation: 684
I was belt spanked as a kid, face slapped as a teen. Hell no will I do that to my kids. I'm sorry. I can't comprehend inflicting pain on my child. I'm firm. I have no problem with giving a kid an attention grabber...let them know I'm serious. But hitting isn't happening. The last time my mother slapped me in the face...she nearly got slapped herself. I realized after having my own kids, is that if spanking is the answer, Then YOU ARE A LAZY PARENT. It's laziness. Because spanking takes zero effort...it's the easy way out.
 
Old 05-01-2009, 01:33 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,302 posts, read 3,755,085 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA central coast View Post
I was belt spanked as a kid, face slapped as a teen. Hell no will I do that to my kids. I'm sorry. I can't comprehend inflicting pain on my child. I'm firm. I have no problem with giving a kid an attention grabber...let them know I'm serious. But hitting isn't happening. The last time my mother slapped me in the face...she nearly got slapped herself. I realized after having my own kids, is that if spanking is the answer, Then YOU ARE A LAZY PARENT. It's laziness. Because spanking takes zero effort...it's the easy way out.
I do not agree it is the easy way out. In some instances it is by some parents but it is not an all inclusive situation.

I was spanked in my childhood. There was one ocassion where my grandma did go too far. However, I did not let the trauma of that experience blind me of the rational behind the option of spanking. I know how it feels to be spanked but I did not allow that traumatic experience control my emotions to the point of not seeing a situation that spanking may end up with a positive result.
Calling someone that spanks a lazy parent is not accurate either just as it would be inaccurate to label a parent that does not spank a wussie or a touchy feely or something else.

You have a great day.
El Amigo
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