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Old 05-29-2009, 09:33 AM
 
11,614 posts, read 19,729,031 times
Reputation: 12046

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Quote:
Originally Posted by natalayjones View Post
It is possible but when you throw words out like "ridiculous" about my life I tend to think you're being condescending and rude.



I'm going to explain this one last time because while I understand that you are all for school uniforms my point was that I chose a school that didn't require them because of a)the style of the uniform b)my child is still young and messy.

The shirts are pale yellow or white - not good options for a messy 3 year old. I would have to spend a lot of time, which I don't have right now, treating his uniform with things like Spray and Wash or Resolve, which costs extra money, in order to keep them stain free. They can ONLY to be purchased from the school or manufacturer at $16 a shirt. They give me 1 free one but I would have to buy at least 3 more. That's $48 for 3 shirts, which would probably not last all school year. I would not want him to wear those shirts after school because A)if they have spots I would want to treat them as soon as possible to prevent them from settling B)if they're not dirty I don't want to risk them getting dirty c)both the pants and shirt have the school emblem on them so I would not put that on him to wear in a social setting nor more than I would wear my work uniform to a social setting (I don't wear a uniform to work that's just an example) so I would STILL have to purchase clothing for him to wear after school. That's where my cost concerns come in. I mean he does have play clothes for when we're just at home but play clothing is usually clothes that used to be school clothes but they have stains or rips or missing buttons or are a little too small.

Now I stated that the uniform another poster said her school has - different colored polo shirts with navy/khaki pants - would work for me because they can brought anywhere and they can be worn anywhere. I also stated that once he's older and not so messy and the clothes cost more my feelings might change regarding uniforms.

So I'm sorry I really don't understand why out of all the people posting on this topic you feel the need to keep discussing your side of the issue with me.
I thought we were having an interesting discussion. If it bothers you I will stop posting.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Orlando, FL
12,256 posts, read 15,796,660 times
Reputation: 6600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
I thought we were having an interesting discussion. If it bothers you I will stop posting.
I don't mind you posting; but there are several others who have posted and my comments are the only ones you're responding to. And you're not really discussing anything - I mean your post "I thought cost was your problem" isn't really a point for discussion. Other posters have responded and said things like:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FarNorthDallas View Post
HUGE difference between dressing a 3-year-old and dressing a 14-year-old. Even at some point hand me downs won't come because your kid will become the same size as the kid handing down and he won't be handing down anymore. My son handed down to his younger cousin until about age 6 and now that kid is bigger than my kid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampaguita View Post
Maybe that's where the difference is - that your son is but a toddler and perhaps at that age, uniforms don't make a whole lot of sense yet.
Those are posts that lend toward discussion. Your posts were just aimed to prove that my feelings about cost is not a legitimate reasons for opposing school uniforms. Basically, you weren't trying to discuss anything you were trying to prove me wrong.
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Old 05-29-2009, 09:58 AM
 
99 posts, read 222,884 times
Reputation: 95
natalayjones,
Honestly, the years my kids were in uniforms were the years that cost our family significantly less money to clothe them. We were able to get the uniforms for school and had enough money left in the budget to actually get nicer clothes for everyday wear. It seems counterintuitive unless you have lived it but think about the amount of different clothes you need for a non uniformed school so that you don't wear the same thing twice in a week or even one of those "If it's the Fall Out Boy tshirt, it must be Friday" where you only have enough clothes to not repeat for a week-week and a half. There is a lot of cost when you start thinking in terms of the clothes you need to give the impression to people that you work with or see everyday that you don't wear the same thing everyday. With uniforms, you spend $100 or so for a years worth of "work" clothes. That same amount could get you maybe 1 or 2 outfits for a non-uniformed school. You still have 7-12 days that need different outfits for to not give the impression of wearing the same thing everyday. With uniforms, you spend the hundred bucks or so on the uniforms and then you have money to spend on a few nice casual outfits.
Much less expensive overall. You only need to replace uniforms when they are outgrown, stained beyond treatment or unable to mend anymore. You don't need to replace to keep up with trends.

For preschoolers, the uniforms are often stained from craft activities and that typically is tolerated unless it goes beyond an acceptable point. Usually, in those instances smocks are used to protect clothes regardless if they were uniform clothes or non uniform clothes. Also, every uniformed school that I have been a part of has had uniform sales once or twice a year where outgrown uniforms are bought and sold parent to parent.
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Old 05-29-2009, 10:17 AM
 
11,614 posts, read 19,729,031 times
Reputation: 12046
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalayjones View Post
Those are posts that lend toward discussion. Your posts were just aimed to prove that my feelings about cost is not a legitimate reasons for opposing school uniforms. Basically, you weren't trying to discuss anything you were trying to prove me wrong.
Is that not a valid basis for a discussion? Like I said, if you want me to stop I will.

I do not think cost is a valid reason to oppose uniforms. You do. You can put forth your reasons why you think it IS a good reason to oppose them. I can put forth my reasons why I think it is not a good reason. That is a discussion. Saying that we all agree on everything all the time is not much of a discussion.
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Old 05-29-2009, 10:17 AM
 
Location: St. Louis Metro East
515 posts, read 1,363,383 times
Reputation: 323
Yes, the school board meeting was the 26th. Sorry, I'm just now getting time to post on here. The session was held behind closed doors. The only person allowed to speak at that meeting was one person in favor of it. Never mind the 12 that spoke against it at the last meeting... :doh:

Granite City Board approves school uniforms - Breaking news - Belleville News-Democrat (http://www.bnd.com/breaking_news/story/783771.html - broken link) My daughter has been bery verbal in the comments on this story. Her s/n is Jericha, and she makes the arguments very well. As to the poll on the original story, please note that this is not the paper from out city. It's a nearby town, and they do have uniforms there, and have had for some time. That was actually a deal killer for why we did not move to that town.

For the most part, people are making the arguement that having a school uniform policy controls bullying, curbs socioeconomic discord, eliminates gang violence, and makes every child look like they're from a Normal Rockwell painting. I've been to Belleville on a reegular basis (where the newspaper is out of), as I attend college there. There are still socioeconomic differences, gangs, and people who dress at different levels. In my humble opinion, I'm not sure what they're trying to accomplish, but they seem to be trying to either shield kids from the real world and how it operates, or make their school look like an idyllic educational setting. Either way, it's imposing a view of reality on these kids that jsut isn't there.

As to the brand name hassle argument, my kids don't really care about brand names. They go for comfort and personal expression, within the limits of being proper and respectable for their situation. My daughter, who will be a senior, will not be my only child affected by this. I also have a soon to be second grader in this school district. I'm much less concerned about his adjustment to and acceptance of this. Maybe that's because of his personality, I don't know. But why should seniors, who seem to have survived this long and even *gasp* obtained an education without school uniforms, be subjected to having their freedom of expression pulled away? (Plus my kids simply do not wear polos, khakis and capris... They don't like them.)

In this area, there has been a lot of debate over teaching social norms, such as "Well, they're going to have to dress appropriately for a job someday anyway..." My response is this: 1. Let them be kids while they can. 2. When you wear a uniform for employment purposes, that's by choice. Attending school is a requirement.

As to the laundry thing, I guarantee that my daughter will shed her uniform immediately upon walking in the front door after school. Yes, it will create more laundry.

I do have to say that I'm proud of the kids here, though. They are already collaborating to find ways to protest the new policies, including those little rubber bracelets and possibly making special protest shirts that meet the uniform requirements.

What bothers me most, though (believe it or not) is the shady way in which the school board approached this whole thing. I know 11 school board members who will be unseated at the next opportunity.

Thanks for all the opinions! You guys rock, even if you don't agree wtih me!

~D
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Old 05-29-2009, 12:00 PM
 
2 posts, read 5,437 times
Reputation: 10
I live in Tennessee, and we had the same problem about couple years ago. There was a lot of parents who came to that meeting and even had a county vote. I think there was 3 yes and 2000 NO. All the parents thought well that's over, and the begging of this year 08-09 the board members past it. They said it didn't matter about the votes it was up to them in the long run. I have no suggestion for you and I'm sorry. I do wish you the best of luck though.
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Old 05-29-2009, 12:57 PM
 
3,084 posts, read 6,469,467 times
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In our district the Superintendent not a supporter of uniforms, however if a school can prove a good case for it for their particular school and follow all the proper guidelines in research and then voting and it passes, then it will be instituted at that school.

Two years ago, before we moved and changed schools, the elementary school we left had a few people who wanted to go to uniforms. So that set it in motion.

First thing that had to be done was the Principal getting approval by the Superintendent to investigate the issue. Next the Principal had to put out a letter to all parents to survey whether they were interested in uniforms and only if a certain percentage were interested could the committee be chosen and proceed.

With enough being interested, the committee was then chosen and I was on that committee. We had to research thoroughly the issue and discuss all aspects. The goal was not to approve uniforms, but to come up with a uniform proposal for the parents to vote on.

We came up with a proposed uniform policy and gave out all the information regarding it to every family. They had about two weeks to read the proposal, ask questions, research it on their own and decide before they had to vote.

The Principal had a set the criteria of what percentage of families (one vote per attending child) had to vote in order to make it valid and a set percentage for rate of passage. I don't remember exactly, but something like 50% of the families had to participate in voting and then of those who voted 75% had to vote yes in order for it to be approved.

Interestingly, something we didn't expect was to see a group of parents across the street from the school lobbying for a No vote with plenty of support as to why on the voting days.

In the end, it was not approved.

My vote was also no, especially after doing all the research.
We had no looming problems with bullying in the school.
We had no real security issues and a strong safety protocol.
We had no huge gap in socioeconomic status in the school. It was a Title I school, meaning the vast majority were low income students with virtually no one coming from an affluent family.
We were not a school with unacceptable rankings, instead we had a Recognized rating and there is only one higher ranking.
And, personally, I've never had a problem with my kids over what they are wearing to school.

Cost research indicated that for most of the parents it would indeed be a financial burden, even if given full freedom to purchase from anywhere. The only way to successfully initiate the program would be to allow some 'scholarship' money for those who couldn't afford it. There was no money in the school budget nor the PTA budget to accommodate that. Nor would there be any hand me downs to help for at least a year.

We had a company that would allow us to buy from them up front (which we did not have the money to do so) and then resell for a bit higher than normal to those who could afford it in order to decrease the cost to those who could not. Many found that objectionable and that was part of what the group, who lobbied against it, used to help sway the votes.

None of my 4 kids have ever owned or worn khaki or navy pants. We're a jeans family. They've rarely owned a polo shirt as well. My 6 yr old son owns exactly one brown polo and avoids wearing it as often as he can. So, in my house uniforms would have been an additional purchase and not instead of their regular clothes. They would change into regular clothes right after school for two reasons. 1. It's not something they would normally wear so they'd want out of it. 2. I'd insist they do so in order to keep from having to purchase 5 sets of clothes and add even more to the weekly laundry loads. Basically these are not clothes they would wear for an entire day.

Perhaps if my kids wore those kinds of clothes anyway and if I were a mom who normally bought lots of clothes for them, then it would be a cost saving measure. However, since they don't and I don't, it was not going to be.

I found not one single advantage for our family.
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Old 05-29-2009, 02:48 PM
 
Location: St. Louis Metro East
515 posts, read 1,363,383 times
Reputation: 323
Thank you for the above post. This is exactly the situation we are in, except that the parents were never consulted. I guess three years ago, when the current dress code was instated, there was a public vote on uniforms then, and it was overwhelmingly rejected. IMH, this time, they already knew that it wouldn't pass that way, especially with two major employers in this town in shutdown status and a lot of people laid off. That's why they pretty much took their ball and went home, refusing to play wtih anyone who might disagree with them.

It didn't help in East St. Louis, it didn't help in Cahokia, Belleville, or East Alton. Yup, I can see why they'd want to do it here.

There is now an online petition, I guess. I think there needs to be a real, paper and pen petition. I may take up this cause myself. DH says it's a losing battle. I take that as a challenge. DD says the kids are organizing, but instead on one big group, they're in several small groups. I suggested to her that perhaps those groups should all unite and work together. This whole proposition is ludicrous.

~D
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Old 05-29-2009, 04:50 PM
 
6,585 posts, read 22,393,381 times
Reputation: 3170
Aw, that's a bummer about the uniform you didn't want. The perception around here is the lower ranking public schools wear uniforms and the higher ranking schools don't, so I don't see our local schools making the switch any time soon. It's almost a stigma for public school. It does seem like adminstrators hope or think uniforms will help test scores. Are there studies indicating either way?

I loved our private school's uniform. I would not have liked it for preschool. But we are heading to public high school with a very loose dress code. Shorts are okay and I am sortof excited about it. My son is a bit lost as he has not had a chance to develop any sense of style and maybe that is a negative for uniforms.
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Old 05-29-2009, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Orlando, FL
12,256 posts, read 15,796,660 times
Reputation: 6600
Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaHR View Post
natalayjones,
Honestly, the years my kids were in uniforms were the years that cost our family significantly less money to clothe them. We were able to get the uniforms for school and had enough money left in the budget to actually get nicer clothes for everyday wear. It seems counterintuitive unless you have lived it but think about the amount of different clothes you need for a non uniformed school so that you don't wear the same thing twice in a week or even one of those "If it's the Fall Out Boy tshirt, it must be Friday" where you only have enough clothes to not repeat for a week-week and a half. There is a lot of cost when you start thinking in terms of the clothes you need to give the impression to people that you work with or see everyday that you don't wear the same thing everyday. With uniforms, you spend $100 or so for a years worth of "work" clothes. That same amount could get you maybe 1 or 2 outfits for a non-uniformed school. You still have 7-12 days that need different outfits for to not give the impression of wearing the same thing everyday. With uniforms, you spend the hundred bucks or so on the uniforms and then you have money to spend on a few nice casual outfits.

Yeah I understand what you're saying for an overall expense. My nephews are actually in private schools and my sister-in-law says the uniforms work great for her because anytime they're not in school they're in t-shirts and basketball shorts. She brought them a couple of nice pants and shirts for church and they're good. I guess eventually my son won't want to wear the cute OshKosh overalls either


Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaHR View Post
Much less expensive overall. You only need to replace uniforms when they are outgrown, stained beyond treatment or unable to mend anymore. You don't need to replace to keep up with trends.

For preschoolers, the uniforms are often stained from craft activities and that typically is tolerated unless it goes beyond an acceptable point. Usually, in those instances smocks are used to protect clothes regardless if they were uniform clothes or non uniform clothes. Also, every uniformed school that I have been a part of has had uniform sales once or twice a year where outgrown uniforms are bought and sold parent to parent.
I think that was probably my biggest concern with the uniform offered at the school near my house. I saw the shirts they offered and I was thinking at $16 a pop I was going to end up spending a $160 on 10 shirts to get him through the school year His teachers at his current school are very good about offering protective smocks during crafts - I just lucked out to have one of those kids. The one who doesn't believe the teacher when she says the paint is wet so he sits in it to make sure.
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