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Old 05-15-2009, 05:32 PM
 
3,842 posts, read 9,240,900 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miasmommy View Post
I work for a nursing home with doctors who practice alternative health methods. They are naturopaths. Most the residents are off of treatments and meds they had been on before they entered the home.
Unless you work for free, you are paid b/c these people need assistance due to their health. Thus, you make money off of sick people.
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:35 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,402,860 times
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everybody should get a chance to live inc kids 3 months from birth.
lets rethink the right to live inc cancer patients.
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:45 PM
 
1,788 posts, read 4,147,913 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Danielle* View Post
Good for the court...that child will now live...
...and perpetuate the backward mindset that his parents have taught him.
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:49 PM
 
1,788 posts, read 4,147,913 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miasmommy View Post
What if they chose chemo and the child died? Could they procecute for child endangerment?
Oh please, don't start with strawman arguments again.

If you told your small child to cross a busy six-lane highway by themselves, and they died, you should be prosecuted for endangering that child.

If you're walking on the sidewalk, holding your child's hand, and a car leaps the curb, strikes and kills your child, you should not be prosecuted for endangerment.

That's pretty much the ridiculous type of comparison you're making (as usual).
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:16 PM
 
Location: chicagoland
1,636 posts, read 3,654,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 121804 View Post
Unless you work for free, you are paid b/c these people need assistance due to their health. Thus, you make money off of sick people.

Not much. Like I said, many are simply not sick anymore or never were. Some have dimentia and that is different. The families choose alternative methods rather than using antipsychotic medications. Some of them have done a 180 by supplements and diet change when it comes to anything from diabetes to cancer.

I make money by assisting the physician's alternative way of providing a GREAT pharm free quality of life.

Granted we have many "drugs" available for EMERGENCY situations but NEVER long term
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:18 PM
 
Location: chicagoland
1,636 posts, read 3,654,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZugZub View Post
Oh please, don't start with strawman arguments again.

If you told your small child to cross a busy six-lane highway by themselves, and they died, you should be prosecuted for endangering that child.

If you're walking on the sidewalk, holding your child's hand, and a car leaps the curb, strikes and kills your child, you should not be prosecuted for endangerment.

That's pretty much the ridiculous type of comparison you're making (as usual).

You are sooo smart. Teach me. Teach me after you take my rights away as a parent though, that's the most important thing to do first
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:18 PM
 
2,838 posts, read 8,843,441 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZugZub View Post
Oh please, don't start with strawman arguments again.

If you told your small child to cross a busy six-lane highway by themselves, and they died, you should be prosecuted for endangering that child.

If you're walking on the sidewalk, holding your child's hand, and a car leaps the curb, strikes and kills your child, you should not be prosecuted for endangerment.

That's pretty much the ridiculous type of comparison you're making (as usual).
Well, not exactly. The point of chemo is to make the patient very, very sick, in the hopes that it kills the cancer. Many patients die on chemo, or are miserably ill on chemo and end up dying from the cancer a few months later anyway. You are infinitely safer walking on the sidewalk than you are taking chemotherapy (or any drugs, including Motrin, really). In some cases, it's a quality of life issue. Would it be better to have a relatively peaceful last 3 or 6 months while letting your cancer run its course, or to have a very sick year in the hospital while treating your cancer? It's not a black or white issue.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:23 PM
 
758 posts, read 1,594,840 times
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I think this played out correctly. The boys parents didn't want anymore of this treatment but Drs. believed he would die without it for sure. So they went to court and and a judge ruled that he must be treated if it will still help him and it's not too late.

If we were talking a 25-35% success rate maybe I would disagree with them being made to continue treatment, but 90%!? Can any of these supposed "natural cures" even come close to that % with actual proven cases?

This is not to say I believe Drs. should be able to override all parents decisions concerning care but I think in life or death situations they should be able to override them if it can be proven to be in the best intrest of the child.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:31 PM
 
Location: chicagoland
1,636 posts, read 3,654,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanandpumpkin View Post
Well, not exactly. The point of chemo is to make the patient very, very sick, in the hopes that it kills the cancer. Many patients die on chemo, or are miserably ill on chemo and end up dying from the cancer a few months later anyway. You are infinitely safer walking on the sidewalk than you are taking chemotherapy (or any drugs, including Motrin, really). In some cases, it's a quality of life issue. Would it be better to have a relatively peaceful last 3 or 6 months while letting your cancer run its course, or to have a very sick year in the hospital while treating your cancer? It's not a black or white issue.

Key phrase QUALITY OF LIFE. Each has an individual standard of rating theirs. It is not your business or the doctors. I've seen cases like this in my class and the ethics committees have very often sided with the parents based on THEIR perception of quality of life.

Chemo IS dangerous. It does kill.

I recall someone saying the mds saying if he DID do chemo he had a 90% survival rate but if he didn't he had a 5% chance of survival. Do those numbers include chldren/people who used alternative methods or nothing at all?

There are many elderly people that don't take their heart medications thought the doctors advise to or people who don't have their children wear seatbelts though it is a law and you could die in an accident. They don't have their children taken away from them they get fined.

It comes down to the fact that this family's religious beliefs say that they are not to harm their bodies with modern medicine. End of story.

I would give my kid the chemo only after the alternative methods made no improvement and if my child's situation came CLOSE to deadly.
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:09 PM
 
3,842 posts, read 9,240,900 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanandpumpkin View Post
Would it be better to have a relatively peaceful last 3 or 6 months while letting your cancer run its course, or to have a very sick year in the hospital while treating your cancer? It's not a black or white issue.
The quality of life that both my parents live now due to the cancer treatment they received far exceeds what they would have lived without...such as their childrens weddings & grandchildren. My father was given 12-14 months to live if he did not get treatment. Sorry...he had a 10yr old, 5 yr old & 1yr old...therefore, the "sick year" was far worth what he now has.

Many cancer patients do indeed die after undergoing radiation & chemotherapy.

We are not on this earth eternally.

But many also survive due to the amazing advances made in medicine. There are many cancers that have very low survival rates with treatment. This one is NOT one of them.

This PARTICULAR case is noteworthy based on what the treatment has done for almost all the patients. This is not a 50-50 chance of 75-25 chance, but a 90+% chance. The form of cancer this young boy has IS CURABLE through medicine.

And, the judge DID say that if the cancer HAD NOT spread (which may be the case...the parents have stopped all medical care now), that the treatment is not needed. But to say that he is an "elder in the tribe"..that's not alternative medicine.

To allow a child to die based on choice is neglect & endangerment. And they are choosing to do this.

Last edited by 121804; 05-15-2009 at 07:21 PM..
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