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Old 06-16-2009, 08:59 AM
 
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The gun was available. Like it or not, there are areas where "educational gun use" is just not a factor. At some point, every time a gun is mentioned it is not about the Big #2 and preserving someone's little right.

There are 100 different scenarios. These two girls were placed with the grandmother. Grandmother has a gun near the bed. Where is mom? Does the grandmother have other children? Does she live in an area or have children that are involved in gangbanging or were involved in gangbanging? Grandma has a gun for a reason near the bed.

There are places where having guns laying about is "normal". Kids have access to them all the time. There are places where people use guns without a thought. That is the education. She is 11. She knew where the gun was, she reacted in anger over something trivial. Seems to me that is the going thing. She got her education. She probably does not have some psychological problem. She made a bad call. She may have made a bad call in an environment where bad calls are the norm. She may have seen it in action.

At some point, hell, at any point, these discussions should revolve about the benefit of the child. Not about protecting the right.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:12 AM
 
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I don't think I mentioned the right even once. I just wanted to suggest that access to a firearm by a child is not in an of itself wrong. Access by a child untrained and uneducated is irresponsible. But access alone may not be.

People seemed to be focused on the access and not on the access + lack of education/training.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:43 AM
 
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I just wanted to suggest that she got her education. If the girls lives in an environment where your neighbor, uncles, cousins, parents or friends have 2 or 3 guns about the house (pull it out, leave it on the table) then that is her education. She was trained. If she had the opportunity to witness a gun being pulled on herself or on others and it was fired then she was trained. There are a lot of houses that use that method of education and training.

Dad trained an 8 year old, 8 year old shot and killed him. There are factors that are beyond your control. In theory, one would wait until the child could think in abstract terms before training them. Should they ever reach that level.

So, yeah, access to a firearm by a child is wrong and all the education and training in the world cannot control all factors.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:50 AM
 
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I wouldn't freak if you brought up a pic of your kid with a pink gun. BUT, I bet you would freak if you saw a picture of a 17 year old who was shot 15 times from behind with no gang affiliation and an honor roll student.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium View Post

So, yeah, access to a firearm by a child is wrong and all the education and training in the world cannot control all factors.
There is a difference between training and bad examples.

And I will grant that education and training, even real training, not the irresponsibility you suggest, cannot control all factors. Nothing can. The point of education and training is to mitigate risk and maximize potential for success.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:53 AM
 
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If there are that many variables, then why do it?
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium View Post
If there are that many variables, then why do it?

To mitigate risk and maximize the potential for success.


This is true in all of life, not just firearms.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:59 AM
 
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And the kids that have access that I'm speaking of also want to mitigate risk and maximize the potential for success. It is true in all of life.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:04 AM
 
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I understand you're trying to be pointedly ironic.

Any substance behind it? Or do you just believe that teaching children to be responsible shooters is at best useless and at worst evil?
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:58 AM
 
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Well, what kind of substance are you looking for?

This is what I think, taking a kid out and living in BF Egypt and teaching him/her to shoot bambi is great. If you can promise your kid a rose garden its a plus. Leaving guns within access is stupid. If the child can access it, you can bet someone else can access it. Then they can be sold for at least $50.

The 8 year old that shot his dad and dad's friend is not a bad example. It is a risk. A very real one. He was just teaching him how to "mitigate risk". The kid operated with the mind of an 8 year old.

Further, taking a life or "mitigating risk" is huge. In fact, it is murder. Kids have to make it through puberty, deal with possible bullying and will largely go through heated moments of passion. They may face overwhelming depression at different points. Then there are the parties or get togethers where a gun is brought out and it goes off and the consequences are huge.

We have kids that live in areas that witness violent crimes or are a victim of them. Really, gun wounds are the norm. There aren't resources to deal with those repercussions. They make the news and then people don't give two sh...about 'em.

Guns are weapons. People die. Your child is just as much as risk as anyone elses. You have no idea the number of parents who did not think anything would happen to their kid or involve their kid. So, proper education plus access is still a crap shoot. You are not special. You do not somehow skip by the potential. Your still at risk.
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