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Old 06-16-2009, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY
1,289 posts, read 2,332,268 times
Reputation: 3689

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Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
If you think there nothing wrong with 11 yr olds being trained to use firearms That sounds like something from a wild wild west movie.
Oh please, then lets just let them drive too.
Oh, and what the heck, no drinking age either.
Really? Wow. I learned to shoot when I was about 8 or 9. And I don't live anywhere near anyplace that'd even be considered the "wild west". I learned to hunt when I was 10.

Putting firearm safety in the same category as driving or drinking age is weird to me. They're in completely different categories.

Maybe it depends on where you live, but around here the idea of teaching children to shoot and handle firearms correctly isn't odd.
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Old 06-16-2009, 12:18 PM
 
2,893 posts, read 5,179,206 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium View Post
Well, what kind of substance are you looking for?

This is what I think, taking a kid out and living in BF Egypt and teaching him/her to shoot bambi is great. If you can promise your kid a rose garden its a plus. Leaving guns within access is stupid. If the child can access it, you can bet someone else can access it. Then they can be sold for at least $50.
So your problem isn't that a responsible child has access, it is that if someone breaks in, they might steal the gun.

Duly noted. I suggest that there are other ways to prevent a break-in or unauthorized access.

Quote:
The 8 year old that shot his dad and dad's friend is not a bad example. It is a risk. A very real one. He was just teaching him how to "mitigate risk". The kid operated with the mind of an 8 year old.
It is a risk. Life is full of risks. And we all must make choices on how to manage those risks in our lives, according to our ethics and priorities. Your priorities don't apply to me and visa versa.

Quote:
Further, taking a life or "mitigating risk" is huge. In fact, it is murder.
Shooting someone in self-defense or defense of another is not murder.

Quote:
Kids have to make it through puberty, deal with possible bullying and will largely go through heated moments of passion. They may face overwhelming depression at different points. Then there are the parties or get togethers where a gun is brought out and it goes off and the consequences are huge.
They also face kidnappers, child-molesters, burglars and plain old crazy folk. And they will for them rest of their lives. A person who learns to shoot as a child has a better chance of being a better shooter as an adult, and thus more prepared to use a firearm in self-defense should it ever become necessary.

Quote:
We have kids that live in areas that witness violent crimes or are a victim of them. Really, gun wounds are the norm. There aren't resources to deal with those repercussions. They make the news and then people don't give two sh...about 'em.
No idea what relevance this has.

Quote:
Guns are weapons. People die. Your child is just as much as risk as anyone elses. You have no idea the number of parents who did not think anything would happen to their kid or involve their kid. So, proper education plus access is still a crap shoot. You are not special. You do not somehow skip by the potential. Your still at risk.
Guns are tools. They *may* be used as weapons. They may also be used to punch holes in paper or make watermelons explode.

I agree there is still risk. I believe that the investment is worth the risk.
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:00 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
15,759 posts, read 22,876,006 times
Reputation: 17543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puru View Post
Really? Wow. I learned to shoot when I was about 8 or 9. And I don't live anywhere near anyplace that'd even be considered the "wild west". I learned to hunt when I was 10.

Putting firearm safety in the same category as driving or drinking age is weird to me. They're in completely different categories.

Maybe it depends on where you live, but around here the idea of teaching children to shoot and handle firearms correctly isn't odd.

Sorry, I'm not impressed nor do I agree.
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:41 PM
 
2,893 posts, read 5,179,206 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
Sorry, I'm not impressed nor do I agree.
The great thing is that you don't have to. This being a free country and all, you can choose to not teach your kids, and I can choose to teach mine. And everyone respects that right enough to leave each of us alone and not force you to teach it, nor prevent me.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:44 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,923,592 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizzySWW View Post
That's exactly it, this child has problems....a normal child wouln't point a gun at her sister. She needs psychiatric help.
Yes, a normal sister would also not get the meat cleaver or a steak knife to threaten her sister. The gun itself is not the problem, there is a big problem with this child.
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Old 06-17-2009, 12:48 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 4,506,759 times
Reputation: 1846
Quote:
To mitigate risk and maximize the potential for success.
Quote:
Guns are tools. They *may* be used as weapons. They may also be used to punch holes in paper or make watermelons explode.


You don’t like that whole death aspect do you?

You can’t seem to say it. Its fine if you say mitigating risk. It’s fine if you can say they may be used as weapons. It isn’t murder if it is self defense.

How do those conversations go?

“We are going to take seed spitting to a whole ‘nother level?”

“The problem with ordinary hole punchers is that the cheaper ones only let you punch so far into the paper. Let me show you how to get a hole anywhere you want.”

When the Chinese figured out that gun powder was great for “rockets” in the middle of a war, they were aiming for watermelons. Lining up Jews and shooting them? Aiming for watermelons. Rwanda? Watermelons. Iraq and Afghanistan? Watermelons. The guns that have been stolen and shoot 3 year old girls eyes out? Definitely hole punchers. Good to know.

No wonder you have to start training so young, it must take a reaaaaaallly damn long time to figure out the difference between a watermelon and a human.

You are just as irresponsible as the guys that lay the guns on the table, or have them laying about that do not “educate“ the children. You ARE whether you choose to say it out loud, or face it, teaching that child to kill. To take a life. That is your mission. THAT is your agenda. But if you faced that then you would realize your not one iota better than a half a dozen gangbangers or just plain criminals.

You can dress that B*^&% up but you cannot take it out. They are all educated and you do not win any brownie points. You cannot guarantee the outcome. Pity you didn’t see the relevance. So, for now you have the right to parent, but we are working on a license.*******
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:00 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 4,506,759 times
Reputation: 1846
As an afterthought, people might not have so many mistakes trying to identify the difference between a watermelon and human if you flat out told them what they were going for from the get go. Hell, we need a save a watermelon campaign.
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Old 06-17-2009, 07:02 AM
 
2,893 posts, read 5,179,206 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium View Post
You don’t like that whole death aspect do you?
Of course not.

Quote:
You can’t seem to say it. Its fine if you say mitigating risk. It’s fine if you can say they may be used as weapons. It isn’t murder if it is self defense.
This is because it is possible to use a firearm in self-defense without killing anyone, or even firing a shot.

Quote:
How do those conversations go?
You post some wildly emotional and inaccurate exaggerations implying that every person who even looks a gun is a wanna-be murderer, completely ignoring the fact that there are millions of people who shoot guns without ever shooting people. And then I make the statement that people who support gun control believe that a woman lying raped and bleeding in an alleyway is morally superior to a woman standing over a would-be rapist with a hole in his chest, and you call me a murderer again and vow to do everything possible to make sure my daughters don't have the weapons they might need to protect themselves from predators.

And then the mods ban us for getting out of control.
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Old 06-17-2009, 07:20 AM
 
4,714 posts, read 11,741,396 times
Reputation: 1050
The biggest danger to our entire American society is Anger Issues...We have two entire generations at this present time with no outlet for their emotions.

In the old days, people had jobs, they stayed married, and they had a sense of responsibility and ethics.
We do not have those Social Mores in society anymore...they have been replaced with 'warm fuzzyness, politically correctness and diversity....for the love of God, I blame the begining of it on the Beatles, who with their music (changing to a Dope Culture and usage of everything concievable for escape), changed that first generation...
They were knighted for that...
We can at least set a date for our historical decline and social rebellion at 1963.

The Gun is only a small indicator of greater problems...
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:09 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 4,506,759 times
Reputation: 1846
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarmig View Post
Of course not.

This is because it is possible to use a firearm in self-defense without killing anyone, or even firing a shot.

My a$$. Grow up. My stance on gun control is the same as it has been. But don't BS me. You don't want to face it because of the implications. Its a line that if you mentally crossed would destroy your credibility.

Your teaching a child to kill. People don't buy guns for watermelons. And every time there is a story with a gun it is not about you. The only person that is emotional is you.
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