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Old 06-01-2009, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Denver area
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It's not about control it's about teaching. Of course no one can follow your kids around 24/7 but you hope to teach your child what is appropriate, kind and respectful behavior. And hopefully, what you teach at home carries through other facets of their lives. If your whole argument is "well, who knows how they behave when you are not around" is like saying why have rules, why bother parenting because who knows what they'll do when you're not around. Makes no sense. You do your best to teach them. That is your job. You can choose which things you teach them and obviously, that varies from household to household. What you teach may or may not filter through 100% of the time but hopefully, over the long run, most of it starts to make sense to them.
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Old 06-01-2009, 08:58 AM
 
5,748 posts, read 10,509,074 times
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Originally Posted by MrMom2 View Post
Does he just say "stupid" at home? Or other places too?

Can you control what he says when your not with him? Just saying he may figure that part out and just guard what he says when your around.

Not trying to be contradictory, just saying its really hard to control kids 100% of the time, especially when a good portion of that is spent in school away from us parents.

The kids figure out pretty fast thats the place they can get away with doing or saying the stuff they can't do at home and the school won't necessarily care if its not against school rules.

I knew a boy who got suspended for a day for calling a girl a bad word. The Principal expected the parents to make it clear this language was not acceptable. Okay, thats fine, but how do you keep him from saying it again? You can't. All you can do is teach WHY its not okay and not allow it to be said. But if the parent or the principal (in this case) isn't around, he could get away with saying it whenever he wanted (in theory) and for all I know he did, how would I know? You can't be around them 24/7 to make sure they don't say "whatever".

I totally understand your reasoning. I do, but trying to control a child who isn't home 24/7 is an act of futility, you can only hope they take your lessons to heart and stick to it even at school and when they are out playing, etc. Otherwise, the kid is pretty much going to say and act whatever way they want to around their friends and they do. They try to fit in and be cool and aren't anything like the kid you know at home. I've seen my kids when they don't know I can see them, and its like different people. I can say they seem much more relaxed and at ease since they don't have to feel so guarded about what they are doing and saying around each other. Parents can learn from their kids, as well.
I'm not sure where any of you got the idea that I am a dictatorial parent or that I'm committed to mind-control. Anybody who actually knows me would find the idea laughable.

Of course, I understand that my child is capable of controlling his language in my presence and then acting differently in other situations. I consider this a good thing, and it gives me hope that he will grow up to be a polite, well-mannered adult who can hold his tongue when the situation calls for it. I desire that he become a person who can be patient, delay gratification, and, most importantly, make sacrifices for others. Right now, that sacrifice means not calling his sister stupid. In high school, it may mean refraining from telling the assistant principal to "suck it!" In adulthood, it may mean not exclaiming in the middle of an important meeting that he thinks his boss is an a$$hole.

Even Rousseau believed a child's education should give him the tools to practice self-mastery. That's my goal, not mind-control.
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:03 AM
 
467 posts, read 845,376 times
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Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
It's not about control it's about teaching. Of course no one can follow your kids around 24/7 but you hope to teach your child what is appropriate, kind and respectful behavior. And hopefully, what you teach at home carries through other facets of their lives. If your whole argument is "well, who knows how they behave when you are not around" is like saying why have rules, why bother parenting because who knows what they'll do when you're not around. Makes no sense. You do your best to teach them. That is your job. You can choose which things you teach them and obviously, that varies from household to household. What you teach may or may not filter through 100% of the time but hopefully, over the long run, most of it starts to make sense to them.
Nope, ya gotta have rules And they get them. Just saying don't to be shocked if he says "whatever" while he's hanging with his buds at school or at some extracurricular thing where he's more or less on his own and its clear that no one seems to care he's saying it, so the implication is that no one has issue with it but Mom, so just don't say it around HER.

Not saying he shouldn't follow rules, maybe word it in a way so that's he can't break it (ex: Don't say "whatever" when you're in my presence, young man!")

In this case (the OPs), the word Stupid will go unnoticed by the general public and society at large. He may understand over time why Mom doesn't want him to say it. But knowing that no one else seems to care if he says it, then he probably will, as long as she isn't around. Eventually he'll stop and one day he'll know why it sounded bad to her. Hope so.
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:06 AM
 
467 posts, read 845,376 times
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Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
I'm not sure where any of you got the idea that I am a dictatorial parent or that I'm committed to mind-control. Anybody who actually knows me would find the idea laughable.

Of course, I understand that my child is capable of controlling his language in my presence and then acting differently in other situations. I consider this a good thing, and it gives me hope that he will grow up to be a polite, well-mannered adult who can hold his tongue when the situation calls for it. I desire that he become a person who can be patient, delay gratification, and, most importantly, make sacrifices for others. Right now, that sacrifice means not calling his sister stupid. In high school, it may mean refraining from telling the assistant principal to "suck it!" In adulthood, it may mean not exclaiming in the middle of an important meeting that he thinks his boss is an a$$hole or not using a foul word to insult another internet forum poster.

Do you get it, now? Even Rousseau believed a child's education should give him the tools to practice self-mastery. That's my goal, not mind-control.
Cool. I hope it works out for you.

I once got told by a teacher not to cuss. So I didn't...around him. He thought he'd taught me a lesson. He did: not to cuss around Mr. Jones Didn't stop me elsewhere. I didn't do it around my family either, just around friends because I was trying to look cool and fit in and seem grown-up as teenagers tend to do.
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Old 06-01-2009, 09:30 AM
 
1,986 posts, read 3,468,487 times
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Originally Posted by MrMom2 View Post
I once got told by a teacher not to cuss. So I didn't...around him. He thought he'd taught me a lesson. He did: not to cuss around Mr. Jones Didn't stop me elsewhere. I didn't do it around my family either, just around friends because I was trying to look cool and fit in and seem grown-up as teenagers tend to do.
It's called human nature.

That's why preacher's kids have such a reputation. They live in an overly restricted environment at home that when they aren't, LOOK OUT. I've known so many it's pitiful. After going off the deep end for a number of years, they usually end up between their parents and the deep end; pretty normal.

When I was a kid, my parents did not allow us to cuss. We had an older neighbor kid (we lived in the country and had no other neighbors) who was left alone during the day in the summer while not in school. She got my sister and I to join her "swear club". Our first assignment was to make a list of swear words, one for each letter of the alphabet. I hid mine in a crack in the steps to our porch. A few weeks later when that got old, we joined her bible school club. and learned every book in the bible, old and new (which no longer comes in handy since I don't believe in the bible at all).
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Old 06-01-2009, 10:59 AM
 
5,748 posts, read 10,509,074 times
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Originally Posted by MrMom2 View Post
Cool. I hope it works out for you.

I once got told by a teacher not to cuss. So I didn't...around him. He thought he'd taught me a lesson. He did: not to cuss around Mr. Jones Didn't stop me elsewhere. I didn't do it around my family either, just around friends because I was trying to look cool and fit in and seem grown-up as teenagers tend to do.
I consider that a valuable lesson and a giant step toward self-mastery and general civility. The next step is to encourage empathy, which allows one to make sacrifices for the benefit of others. The two go hand-in-hand. I don't think banning an offensive word and achieving obedience is the end-point of parenting. If it were, it would just be encouraging duplicity. That said, ignoring offensive behavior in the hopes that it will pass isn't necessarily the solution either. I choose my battles carefully. I generally ignore benignly annoying behavior, but I draw the line at insulting others.

As I mentioned before, my primary objection to the word "stupid" with my son is that he uses it as a cop-out for doing his homework. He knows he isn't stupid, he's just being lazy, so there is no need for me to reinforce his goodness. If he said, "I'm being lazy," then I would applaud his honesty, but I still wouldn't let him off the hook.
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Old 06-02-2009, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY
1,289 posts, read 2,327,438 times
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Originally Posted by EuroExpat View Post
We've been running into parents going nuts when their kids say the word "stupid". Not about another person (i.e. you're stupid) but about an object, such as homework, being "stupid". Why is it a bad word? I keep hearing kids saying stuff like "oh shoot" or "darn it" (just a fancy way of saying that other word) all the time and their parents don't mind. So why the word "stupid"? Our child is only a toddler and we're starting to watch what we're saying around him. But "stupid" never crossed our minds as necessarily a bad word. What do you think?
I'm not really sure, but maybe its because its such a negative word to a lot of people and parents don't want their children expressing such negativity all the time. Plus, I've noticed kids like to over-use the word "stupid".

Personally, if it were my kid and he liked to call things stupid a lot, I'd introduce him to some other words to express his feelings. Depending on the age of the child I might even hand him or her a dictionary or thesaurus and tell them "find another word to describe it. You're wearing that one out."
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Old 06-02-2009, 01:14 PM
 
1,986 posts, read 3,468,487 times
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Originally Posted by Puru View Post
..Personally, if it were my kid and he liked to call things stupid a lot, I'd introduce him to some other words to express his feelings. Depending on the age of the child I might even hand him or her a dictionary or thesaurus and tell them "find another word to describe it. You're wearing that one out."
What a great idea. It would put the power in the hands of the kids instead of just forbidding the word.
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Old 06-02-2009, 01:32 PM
 
8,938 posts, read 15,865,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMom2 View Post
Cool. I hope it works out for you.

I once got told by a teacher not to cuss. So I didn't...around him. He thought he'd taught me a lesson. He did: not to cuss around Mr. Jones Didn't stop me elsewhere. I didn't do it around my family either, just around friends because I was trying to look cool and fit in and seem grown-up as teenagers tend to do.
that's still a great lesson to learn - time & place recognition, appropriateness, etc

my wife taught 7th grade in a pretty bad area and these were things that had to be reinforced - don't swear in the classroom as it's inappropriate for that setting, just like it would be for a job interview or many other situations regardless of how "bad" you think the language is

as for the actual OP thread on this it reminded me of a story that happened to me

I was playing with my neices and nephews and got a little careless and pinched one of my fingers pretty good into some contraption - being a little embarassed I played it off and said "well that was pretty stupid of me"

4 little jaws dropped as they informed me i did a bad thing ..... once I realized they were talking about my speech it floored me a little bit as I never thought anything of dropping a self depricating "stupid"

lesson learned on my behalf

with the 4 of them being so young and so close in age things like stupid would be tossed about at will between them where it's best if they avoid the word at least until the point where they no longer care about "bad words"
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