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Old 07-03-2009, 01:17 PM
 
420 posts, read 299,278 times
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Its absolutely fine to not have kids. It means now that the extra burden on society has been wiped clean and clear.
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Old 07-04-2009, 11:30 AM
 
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Good point about selfish being tending to one's self at the expense of someone else (especially a dependent person).
Of course, people with kids must often put the child's needs first, that doesn't make them selfless (or selfish before kids) it makes them decent people and caring parents.
Regarding providing grandchildren, my parents were cheerfully given two grandkids by my sister, who should never have had kids, and basically had no/lousy relationship with the boys, because my parents weren't too good at the relating-to-people part of life. My nephews really drew a blank on the relative thing- one has seemed to suffer from it, the other married well and is quite happy.
I must admit I've been lucky- no family or religious messages to provide more kids/souls or grandkids. I always viewed having kids similar to becoming a missionary or becoming Catholic or something- things that many people do, that seem "normal," yet I just knew I would never do that. Knew if from early on- more luck. No ambivalence whatsoever, and I think I lost one great guy over it (hi, Juan!)
Thank you for letting me post on this forum. I know other childfrees read these discussions, and hope no one posts in a rude manner so as to have the discussion closed. This is, after all, someone else's home turf.
I am always interested in why people want or choose to have children, almost like an anthropoligical venture. What bothers me is when, if I'm asking in courtesy, I get the "childLESS people are selfish, missing the poing of life, don't know what love is" and so on. Hence, hypersensitivity. I'm heard that so often, when I've been courteous in a discussion.
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Old 07-04-2009, 11:40 AM
 
1,091 posts, read 3,240,360 times
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Quote:
I am always interested in why people want or choose to have children, almost like an anthropoligical venture. What bothers me is when, if I'm asking in courtesy, I get the "childLESS people are selfish, missing the poing of life, don't know what love is" and so on. Hence, hypersensitivity. I'm heard that so often, when I've been courteous in a discussion.
Perhaps this reflexive hostility toward the childfree-by-choice is partly a defense mechanism.
Perhaps parents feel that your choice- and your apparent contentment with it- is somehow invalidating to them, or... what's the word I'm groping for? that it somehow implies something negative about their life choices.

Being a parent is no bed of roses.
To me, in fact, it's been a bed of thorns.
I love my son, but he's made me so very, very sad.
Maybe if there are other parents that feel this way, they take your childfree status as some sort of rebuke, and therefore feel the need to defend themselves by attacking you and your choice.

It seems a little silly, but people are weird sometimes.
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Old 07-04-2009, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
2,568 posts, read 5,856,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane72 View Post
Perhaps this reflexive hostility toward the childfree-by-choice is partly a defense mechanism.
Perhaps parents feel that your choice- and your apparent contentment with it- is somehow invalidating to them, or... what's the word I'm groping for? that it somehow implies something negative about their life choices.

Being a parent is no bed of roses.
To me, in fact, it's been a bed of thorns.
I love my son, but he's made me so very, very sad.
Maybe if there are other parents that feel this way, they take your childfree status as some sort of rebuke, and therefore feel the need to defend themselves by attacking you and your choice.

It seems a little silly, but people are weird sometimes.
That may be your experience. I am very happy as a parent. We were married for almost 8 years before we were blessed with a baby.
Before this forum I had zero issues with people who choose not to have children. But after being called a breeder so many times I am now thinking about childfree-by-choice people as equal to racists.
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Old 07-04-2009, 12:35 PM
 
1,091 posts, read 3,240,360 times
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Originally Posted by suzie02 View Post
That may be your experience. I am very happy as a parent. We were married for almost 8 years before we were blessed with a baby.
Before this forum I had zero issues with people who choose not to have children. But after being called a breeder so many times I am now thinking about childfree-by-choice people as equal to racists.

Well, I was a teen mom, and now my son is grown, running amok, and trying to kill himself with drugs.
So, yeah, obviously our experiences are a little different, apparently.
He's the absolute love of my life, and I would never wish he wasn't here.
But sometimes the way things have turned out makes me wish I wasn't.
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Old 07-04-2009, 12:57 PM
 
12,866 posts, read 24,584,458 times
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I do think that people who are content with their choices (to have kids or not) are, if anything, curious about my thought process and choice. I do think some are threatened (even if I'm courteous) if they just had kids on automatic pilot, assuming that "that's what you do" or "that's what married people do." I talk about the subject a lot because I consider it a personal mission to create a vocabulary by which becoming a parent is a choice, not a given or a default program. I do think people's thinking hasn't caught up to the technological and social changes that make parenthood a choice, not a given (or a doomed-to). After all, in the U.S. it's only been about 40+ years, given the birth control pill and the social changes thereafter, plus the legal changes for women's status, especially if not married.
I am sorry that the previous poster is having such a hard time with her son. There are genetics and societal pressures and who-knows-why some kids have a harder time in becoming adults. I'm sure the poster did her very best as a parent, as do most people. Thinking of you and your son.
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Aurora, Colorado
2,212 posts, read 4,507,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzie02 View Post
But after being called a breeder so many times I am now thinking about childfree-by-choice people as equal to racists.
I think the entire thing is just totally bizarre. Having kids is a personal choice (and sometime a physical impossibility). Why has everything in our society suddenly become an "us versus them" thing? Democrats can't be friends with Republicans. People who have kids can't be friends with those who don't. Environmentalists can't be friends with people who don't drive hybrids.

Hate to quote the idiot from the LA riots, but "can't we all just get along?"

There are millions of people who are having babies in this country every year. Plenty of them should not be having kids, but it is what it is. Those of us who have made a conscious effort to have children have a responsibility to raise them to become productive members of society. Our country has enough problems and not wanting kids but having them anyway is just going to add to them.

If you don't want kids, make sure you don't get pregnant. Don't have kids so that someone will visit you in the old folks home. Don't have kids because your family keeps asking when they are going to have a new grandchild. Children are hard work.

Being a parent means putting your own needs on the back burner. I don't agree with the parents who like to go out and proclaim their parenting superiority by saying stupid things like "I don't even have time to take a shower" (meaning if your hair is done and you're clean, you must have taken precious time away from your baby). But the fact is that kids will outgrow their clothes faster than you will. You will probably be wearing underwear that you've had for years. Your kids will get new clothes sometimes every few months. If you're not ready to make some sacrifices (both in sleep time, "me time", probably your career, financially, in hygiene and fashion, etc), then you should not have kids.

Incidentally, if you're just not sure, perhaps you should think a little harder about it. I am not "maternal." I don't rush over to babies and ooh and aah over them. I could care less if I get to hold my nephews and nieces. However, with my own kids, I could not be more enamored. I just cannot get enough of them. You don't have to be "super mom" and you don't have to be one of those crazy "baby people" in order to have kids. Your kids just need your attention and your love. You are going to make mistakes and even if you think you're a perfect parent, your kid could grow up to be an absolute disaster. Life has no guarantees.

For me, I just wanted to move to another level. My husband and I were married for 3 years before getting pregnant. We had traveled all over Europe, in the US and to Mexico. We were pretty secure in our marriage (which can sometimes become stressed when having kids). When we finally decided to have kids, we knew that our lives wouldn't be the same and we were okay with that. Suddenly, we were looking for homes in surburbia. When we had extra money, we were heading to Babies R US and not a fancy restaurant downtown. However, we've discovered really great people in suburbia and we still like to eat out (and do). Your life doesn't get boring just because you have kids. Your priorities do change (as well they should) so if you're not ready to totally change your life, then perhaps you should wait.
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Aurora, Colorado
2,212 posts, read 4,507,907 times
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Originally Posted by brightdoglover View Post
What bothers me is when, if I'm asking in courtesy, I get the "childLESS people are selfish, missing the poing of life, don't know what love is" and so on. Hence, hypersensitivity. I'm heard that so often, when I've been courteous in a discussion.
That is true and I have friends who don't want kids (to the point of being "fixed") who get that all of the time. I appreciate that they have thought about it and made the decision to not have kids. When I was pregnant, I would see teenagers sitting with their parents in the waiting room who were hugely pregnant and I just couldn't help but be alarmed.

Trust me when I say that there are plenty of people out there who have kids who are absolutely selfish, have no idea what the point of their lives are and wouldn't know what true love was if it slapped them in the face. It's not like getting pregnant changes your mindset. If you've got a temper, if you're self-absorbed, if you like to party to the point of passing out every weekend, etc, having kids isn't going to turn you into "soccer mom." And the "soccer moms" are oftentimes the ones who never quite got out of high school and still treat life as one big popularity contest.

It's also not fair to assume that every childless couple has chosen that path. Plenty of people simply cannot have kids and don't have the thousands of dollars to use science to get pregnant.

Life is not a contest. Your life isn't necessarily any richer for having children or not. We need to get out of this "us versus them" mentality that has taken over this country in the last few years.
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Sunny Florida
7,136 posts, read 10,706,709 times
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You only have one life and you must live it your way. If you don't want children don't let anyone pressure you into it. Once you have a child your life is never the same again. My husband and I knew we wanted kids and we were fortunate enough to have two of them. They are now teenagers and I can honestly say parenting is the hardest job I've ever had. I wouldn't trade my kids for the world, but I perfectly understand why some of my friends have decided to remain childless. There's good and bad in every choice we make. Do what you feel is best for you.
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Old 07-04-2009, 01:35 PM
 
Location: america
324 posts, read 757,253 times
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The only person that is capable and qualified to make that decision is you. Why would you give outside sources /friends/family members that decision, unless these people were going to be financially supporting you. The decision is yours, and there is no right or wrong answer.
Kid-freee means you have more time for your relationship, more money saved away, more sleep..the list goes on. Then there are several pros to having kids...I think.
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