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Old 06-12-2009, 04:53 AM
 
Location: Here... for now
1,747 posts, read 3,005,785 times
Reputation: 1232

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamsncharms View Post
Why would you feel the need to to tell a stranger in a store whose kid is having a tantrum "yeah. ive been there."...
Perhaps you overlooked the next phrase in the post you quoted, but I said I'd offer a "yeah, I've been there" LOOK. A look of solidarity. A look of SYMPATHY. A look that conveys "yes, I understand and I feel for you". I didn't say I'd actually "say" it, although sometimes, I have actually said it (or something similar). I can't remember anyone ever saying anything negative in return. Does that make it more clear?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamsncharms View Post
...or even worse if you feel the parent looks like they don't care about the ruckus, give them a dirty look?...
As I said in the post you quoted (and it's right there in the quote), it depends on my mood at the time. Yes, when someone ALLOWS their child to create a ruckus and makes NO ATTEMPT to quell such ruckus, I've on occasion given the parent a dirty look. I'm not talking about the parent who is struggling to get things under control. I'm talking about the one who is deliberately, defiantly doing NOTHING and is projecting the attitude of "if you don't like it, leave!!!". THAT parent is being inconsiderate of their fellow shoppers by allowing a disturbance that they SHOULD be attempting to control. See the difference?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamsncharms View Post
...its got to be frustrating enough for the parent that needs to shop when their kiddo is being grouchy or having a fit. i dont think anyone should make any comments to them. they are most likely embarrassed as it is.
Again, the parent is who is making an attempt gets the sympathy. The parent who is embarrassed gets sympathy. The parent who couldn't give a flying fig about the situation gets my disapproval. Not that it matters to that type of parent.

 
Old 06-12-2009, 10:05 AM
 
4,267 posts, read 6,167,403 times
Reputation: 3579
Little kids have meltdowns when they are tired, hungry, bored, overstimulated, or going through a developmental leap, etc. They are little kids and have not yet mastered things like self control, patience and self soothing. Toddlers are at a stage where they think the world revolves around them. It's not often that they can put another persons needs ahead of their own, such as their parents' need to go grocery shopping. It's a natural and normal stage of development. Tantrums happen.

Parenting is hard enough on it's own without people being so judgemental of other parents. When you see a child having a meltdown in the store you have no idea what the situation is. All that you are seeing is a tiny glimpse into the lives of that parent and that child. You're not getting the full picture. Giving other parents dirty looks when it looks to you like they aren't handling the situation the way that you see fit is totally obnoxious in my not so humble opinion.
 
Old 06-12-2009, 10:37 AM
 
1,122 posts, read 2,309,385 times
Reputation: 749
Quote:
Originally Posted by yodi View Post
Little kids have meltdowns when they are tired, hungry, bored, overstimulated, or going through a developmental leap, etc. They are little kids and have not yet mastered things like self control, patience and self soothing. Toddlers are at a stage where they think the world revolves around them. It's not often that they can put another persons needs ahead of their own, such as their parents' need to go grocery shopping. It's a natural and normal stage of development. Tantrums happen.

Parenting is hard enough on it's own without people being so judgemental of other parents. When you see a child having a meltdown in the store you have no idea what the situation is. All that you are seeing is a tiny glimpse into the lives of that parent and that child. You're not getting the full picture. Giving other parents dirty looks when it looks to you like they aren't handling the situation the way that you see fit is totally obnoxious in my not so humble opinion.
Toddlerhood is not just a "stage" where these children are expected to act like this. Toddlerhood is a small window of opportunity for parents to teach their children to behavior properly. If you don't get it in this age, it only gets worse later.
 
Old 06-12-2009, 11:04 AM
 
4,267 posts, read 6,167,403 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by flik_becky View Post
Toddlerhood is not just a "stage" where these children are expected to act like this. Toddlerhood is a small window of opportunity for parents to teach their children to behavior properly. If you don't get it in this age, it only gets worse later.
Learning things like self-control and handling frustrations in better ways is a process, it doesn't happen overnight. In the meantime, there will still be meltdowns. Does that justify giving other parents dirty looks when their child is having a meltdown in the store and the parent is not handling the situation the way you see fit? Do you want you kid to shoot other people dirty looks when they disagree with them?
 
Old 06-12-2009, 11:27 AM
 
Location: NC
484 posts, read 1,364,313 times
Reputation: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by flik_becky View Post
Learned behavior because she was not ever taught anything else. At younger than two, my children could repeat some words. I would MAKE them look me in the eye period. Then I would MAKE them say "No yelling, crying, ect." and "What happens next time?" one word was enough "timeout." For crying of any kind, I teach the kids there are some things worth crying over and somethings not worth the effort. If it's not, I teach them to take deep breaths and blow it out until they get themselves under control and teach them another way to handle the situation. No cry babies that need constant babying, yeah!

I had no magic wand. I had years of experience handling/raising kids, worked with handicaped kids, colicky babies, ect. But this is why everyone says I am like Super Nanny. I do not blame "adhd" for allowing my children to act out. On top of that, they have mulitple oversensitivities, like our youngest who has to have the lines on his socks just right before putting on the shoes, will untie his shoes and keep coming back to you to tie them because he didn't like the bow, has to pick out his own clothes because, God forbid you don't color cordinate right with his favorite color of the day, all are pulled by sounds, sights, bright colors, shapes, anything familiar and unfamilar to them more so than other kids (this is the only reason no one wants to babysit, because they don't know how to handle it and can't keep up when they allow it to go too far. Their not bad, just busy). I teach them different from birth.

Children do not flip out when they don't get something, unless they have not been taught that this is unexceptable. In the stores we have worried more about our children wandering off than flipping out. They are so independent with absolutely no fear, ultra high levels of risk taking. But we address it like everything else and teach our children when things are and are not appropriate. We don't have this worry anymore. We don't even have to hold their hands, they keep up, stay out of crap and, if they are looking (but NOT touching) something and we think that they might miss us going around the corner, we simply say, "We're leaving this area and heading to...) And, oh, their attention is zapped back and on we go.

Example on the youngest range. My sister, having had plenty of experience with children, had a so called colicky baby. When asked if the baby needed to burp she said, "She's just not a burper." Turns out she did the classic baby over shoulder thing but this baby was a tough burper. I taught her how to hold the heel of her hand into the baby's tummy and cup her hand and pat her back and to sit with one leg sitting across the other, laying baby's tummy right onto her leg with burp rag underneath and to do the same cupped hand burping and voila, massive burp followed by contented baby. She wasn't a "colicky" baby. She was a tough burper but mommy decided to just believe that it was just the way her child was, nothing wrong with how she did things.

Point is, even though a stage might be tougher with one child, there are multiple ways to make a child behave in the store, or anywhere for that matter. The first step is to determain what is causing the child to act that way and the second is addressing it. They may flip out at the checkout everytime because they want candy or because they don't like the beeping sounds of the checkout, are afraid of stuff moving all by its self on the conveyor belt. But when you figure it out, no matter how little it seems, boy does your life become easier.

Timeouts for us were hell. Our daughter would spit on the wall. So we put her at the table and made her put her head down. She spit on the table and I MADE her keep her face down in it until her timeout was up. (Timeout's restart when they lift their head or otherwise move from where their timeout began.) Guess what? No more spitting. Next, our second child would sit in the chair and rock it on two legs. He was removed to the floor, face down away from anything to touch. Guess what? After a big tough cry the firrst time, he suddenly decided that timeouts wheren't fun anymore and he still takes timeouts like that. Third one comes along and squirms around in circles on the floor, plays with fluff or other invisible stuff on the floor, at the table he rocks the chair, and enjoys the timeout in the corner like he got off easy, with the little humph sound to show off. Until I made him kneel in his timeout with his arms above his head where he could not touch anything. Guess what? Creative parenting worked again. Now the mere mention of a timeout is all I need with any of them. Our 7 year old gets talked to or a timeout maybe once a month if that, our 5 year old is around 3 a month and our 3 year old? Well he's still testing the water. I'm not afraid to give him a timeout if we are in the park, store, car, (yes and it works great), backyard, family gathering, ect. He's learning and I might think he's testing but everyone else thinks he's well behaved. Having good kids is hard work boy, but it's worth all the consistancy, time and the moments of stress for a couple of years so that we can relax the rest of the years, at least until the teen years come around, but I am sure that if they are use to the consistancy by then, they will not be as bad as some kids I know.

The number one problem is with people saying..."They're just being a kid." No. The job of being a kid is on the kid. The job of raising a child that is ready for the real world as an adult, understanding acceptable and unacceptable behavior and being a productive member of society is the parents. Bad behavior is not a kid being a kid. Its a parent with a bad excuse.
I am so glad that you were able to do that with your children at under 2 years old. My daughter at 2 was able to say, hello, yes, no, bye, like, want love, pretty, hungry. She was not able to repeat sentences, she also had a lazy eye at that age. She could not write her name or the complete alphabet until close to the end of Kindergarten. (and yes I worked with her along with the school helping.) Your experience with your children is not always the same experience with other parents and their children. She was not spoiled and she did not get everything she wanted. More tiny bits of history, She was in special ed until second grade, than main streamed with help for third, same as 4th and fifth. End of fifth she graduated from Special Services, OT and Speech. Sixth grade, back into some Special Services including Speech.
She did not understand things at age one and two the same way as other children did. She now at 12 years old is behaved VERY well and has been for many years with still some learning difficulties.


"Children do not flip out when they don't get something, unless they have not been taught that this is unexceptable."

You can say the above all you like because that is your experience. My experience was different. I know for a fact it simply is not true with all children. I know what my experience was for my child when she was two years old, you do not, but if you want to assume, it is a free world.

My point is basically, that we do not know what is going on with other families and children when we see someone at a store with a screaming child. People will judge anyway though.
 
Old 06-12-2009, 11:39 AM
 
Location: NC
484 posts, read 1,364,313 times
Reputation: 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelly Nomad View Post
Perhaps you overlooked the next phrase in the post you quoted, but I said I'd offer a "yeah, I've been there" LOOK. A look of solidarity. A look of SYMPATHY. A look that conveys "yes, I understand and I feel for you". I didn't say I'd actually "say" it, although sometimes, I have actually said it (or something similar). I can't remember anyone ever saying anything negative in return. Does that make it more clear?
As I said in the post you quoted (and it's right there in the quote), it depends on my mood at the time. Yes, when someone ALLOWS their child to create a ruckus and makes NO ATTEMPT to quell such ruckus, I've on occasion given the parent a dirty look. I'm not talking about the parent who is struggling to get things under control. I'm talking about the one who is deliberately, defiantly doing NOTHING and is projecting the attitude of "if you don't like it, leave!!!". THAT parent is being inconsiderate of their fellow shoppers by allowing a disturbance that they SHOULD be attempting to control. See the difference?
Again, the parent is who is making an attempt gets the sympathy. The parent who is embarrassed gets sympathy. The parent who couldn't give a flying fig about the situation gets my disapproval. Not that it matters to that type of parent.

I read your post very well and clear. I stand by the post I made and still feel it is none of your business to decide in a Supermarket when you are shopping and see screaming children, if the parent is embarrassed enough to be offered sympathy or if you feel they are doing nothing they should get a dirty look. You never know when that parent is going to confront you right back and tell you where you should go and how to get there.. you are seeing the children upset and screaming why add to it and upset the parent enough to tell you off right back and cause a bigger scene than a kid crying?


I have news for you. MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS, unless your offering a hand to pick up a dropped item or offering the person to go in front of you in the check out or something nice. Who are you to decide which parent of a screaming kid should get a nod or a "hey been there" and which should get a dirty look? Mind your own business. Think whatever you like to yourself, you can think the person is the crappiest of parents, or the best of parents, it is simply NOYB.
 
Old 06-12-2009, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
2,568 posts, read 6,737,036 times
Reputation: 1933
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamsncharms View Post
I am so glad that you were able to do that with your children at under 2 years old. My daughter at 2 was able to say, hello, yes, no, bye, like, want love, pretty, hungry. She was not able to repeat sentences, she also had a lazy eye at that age. She could not write her name or the complete alphabet until close to the end of Kindergarten. (and yes I worked with her along with the school helping.) Your experience with your children is not always the same experience with other parents and their children. She was not spoiled and she did not get everything she wanted. More tiny bits of history, She was in special ed until second grade, than main streamed with help for third, same as 4th and fifth. End of fifth she graduated from Special Services, OT and Speech. Sixth grade, back into some Special Services including Speech.
She did not understand things at age one and two the same way as other children did. She now at 12 years old is behaved VERY well and has been for many years with still some learning difficulties.


"Children do not flip out when they don't get something, unless they have not been taught that this is unexceptable."

You can say the above all you like because that is your experience. My experience was different. I know for a fact it simply is not true with all children. I know what my experience was for my child when she was two years old, you do not, but if you want to assume, it is a free world.

My point is basically, that we do not know what is going on with other families and children when we see someone at a store with a screaming child. People will judge anyway though.
She has perfect children. I have read her posts before and that is her theme.
 
Old 06-12-2009, 01:37 PM
 
3,842 posts, read 10,489,449 times
Reputation: 3206
Quote:
Originally Posted by yodi View Post
It's a natural and normal stage of development. Tantrums happen.

Parenting is hard enough on it's own without people being so judgemental of other parents. When you see a child having a meltdown in the store you have no idea what the situation is. All that you are seeing is a tiny glimpse into the lives of that parent and that child. You're not getting the full picture. Giving other parents dirty looks when it looks to you like they aren't handling the situation the way that you see fit is totally obnoxious in my not so humble opinion.
So, when I see the parent bend down to the child's level and SCREAM "I said shut up!" and then the child either looks terrified or starts an even bigger tantrum, I should just say, "Hmmm, bet they are just having a bad day.."

Absolutely not. To scream back at your child, taunt them, or tease them is cruel & mean. For a child to scream back at their parents, use foul language & throw things is completely & absolutely unnecessary. It interferes with other parents or shoppers who are managing to control their emotions and tempers & sets an extremely awful example for children AND other children.

Cracks me up the excuses parents have for their OWN POOR BEHAVIOR and pass it on to the kids. What an example....

Most parents who have a few working brain cells & put 5 minutes into the raising of their children handle tantrums correctly and in a positive manner for their child.

I don't care if the parent is Mary Poppins, June Cleaver or the lady from Married with Children...there is no reason to scream at the top of your lungs AT YOUR child in a place like a store or restuarant when they are right next to you nor is there a reason to allow that behavior from your child when shopping for milk and cheese.

Whining and crying b/c the child is overtired, overstimulated, hungry..that is one thing. Screaming & yelling b/c they can't get something they want or are looking for attention is completely different. If a parent is unable to separate those events, that is quite unfortunate.

When I see a parent loudly yell back at the child or say a harshly sacrastic comment that brings the child to tears...I'm seeing a tiny glimpse of EXACTLY what kind of parent they are.. and obnoxious is only one word to describe it.....

Last edited by 121804; 06-12-2009 at 01:47 PM..
 
Old 06-12-2009, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Aurora, Colorado
2,212 posts, read 5,142,119 times
Reputation: 2371
Clearly there a HUGE difference between a kid flipping out because of overstimulation once in a while and another kid flipping out because he/she flips out every time they go anywhere in order to get what they want.

Parenthood is not easy. When it's your child acting irrationally in public, it's absolutely mortifying. It's made worse because no one knows that this is truly unusual for your child because you get lumped together with the parent whose kid flips out constantly.

I don't have a magic formula, and my kids are far from perfect. However, from the very beginning when they were still in a baby seat that we carried into restaurants, we have gone out in public with our kids. When they misbehave, we leave and when we get home, we explain that whatever it is that they want to do (play with Barbies, go outside and play) will have to wait until the next day. If we are inconvenienced, THEY are inconvenienced. We also have creative punishments (my daughter is scared of the vacuum. When she acts up in public, guess who gets to help mom vacuum?). It took a few public episodes, but they are now on their best behavior when we go out.

The true test was when we went to Disneyworld. Disneyworld is the world's greatest test for parents because everything (and I mean everything) is available and at kids' eye level. It's overstimulation at its finest and when you add in lines, heat and sugar, it's a recipe for disaster. I am proud to say that we went to Disneyworld and my oldest daughter did not misbehave. Yes, she was tired. Yes, she had sugar crashes. But she didn't follow the lead of every other kid who was throwing themselves down in the middle of the aisle and pushing their parents to their wits end. Fortunately for us, her habits were already developed so Disneyworld was a blast and we all were able to enjoy it.

Acting appropriate in public is just another habit that you have to enforce with your kids. Letting them scream when you are out is not going to teach them anything. If you start teaching them appropriate behavior when they're young, it will be one less battle you have to deal with when they get older.
 
Old 06-12-2009, 01:45 PM
 
17,101 posts, read 16,270,803 times
Reputation: 28389
Quote:
Originally Posted by 121804 View Post
So, when I see the parent bend down to the child's level and SCREAM "I said shut up!" and then the child either looks terrified or starts an even bigger tantrum, I should just say, "Hmmm, bet they are just having a bad day.."

Absolutely not.

Cracks me up the excuses parents have for their OWN POOR BEHAVIOR and pass it on to the kids. What an example....

Most parents who have a few working brain cells & put 5 minutes into the raising of their children handle tantrums correctly and in a positive manner for their child.

I don't care if the parent is Mary Poppins, June Cleaver or the lady from Married with Children...there is no reason to scream at the top of your lungs AT YOUR child in a place like a store or restuarant when they are right next to you nor is there a reason to allow that behavior from your child when shopping for milk and cheese.
Think of it this way: "Will my dirty glare help this situation?"

In most cases, the answer is a big "NO". Shooting a glare at the mother may make *you* feel better but it won't make the situation any better for the child.
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