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Old 06-15-2009, 05:55 PM
 
Location: SE Florida
9,367 posts, read 25,158,302 times
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OMG. My son is 30 now but I will never forget being at the far end of a mall that was 1/3 of a mile long when he pitched a fit- stiffening in the stroller and screaming his head off. After telling him what would happen if he continued, which he did, I turned the stroller around and (calmly as I could) walked the length of the mall, breaking into tears as I reached the exit where my car was parked. He screamed the entire way. Was...not...fun, let me tell you. But teaching him consequences on the front end made the back end sooooo much easier.

 
Old 06-17-2009, 04:59 PM
 
Location: cape girardeau
893 posts, read 1,576,195 times
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omg, my daughter is almost 3 and now I'm horrified!!!!! LOL
 
Old 06-17-2009, 05:23 PM
 
1,831 posts, read 4,424,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMom2 View Post
Kinda hard not to react in a defensive way sometimes if your kid is screaming, cursing and getting right in your face or taking a swing at you with something that could hurt you.

Or even something as simple as nonstop whining and griping that's pushing your buttons to the limit and you can't take it anymore and have to raise your voice to be heard OVER his whining.

"Stop complaining. Sit down. Be quiet. I don't want to hear anymore. You're done talking about it now!" Parents are only human and are entitled to lose it once in awhile
I SO agree with this post. If you have a child with disabilities, meltdowns in public are NOT immediately attributable to bad parenting. I have had parents tell me about the things that their disabled children have done. And I have read blogs that detail some of severe stress parents endure. I've heard and read about kids pulling knives on their parents, flinging heavy objects at them, hitting them, putting holes in walls, cursing, threatening. On and on. Often, when children with such issues are in full tantrum mode, you can't reason with them. Yelling at them isn't really the answer, but what are your options? Saying calmly, "Bobby, you are yelling at me and you need to stop or I will give you a time-out," isn't really going to cut it much of the time.

With my own child, I have had lucky enough to endure fewer tantrums as he matures and as I've found something that works. That something, for me, is finding out what he likes (TV and videos) and depriving it as a consequence, and findng what he doesn't like (isolation) and using it when he starts flicking off. I still talk with him about his behaviors, and I still do raise my voice at times. It's not easy, because for some kids, pushing others' buttons frequently is the way they deal.
 
Old 06-17-2009, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Right where I want to be.
4,507 posts, read 9,038,208 times
Reputation: 3360
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanko75 View Post
omg, my daughter is almost 3 and now I'm horrified!!!!! LOL
You don't need to be horrified, you just need to be prepared as best as you can. Don't be surprised and flustered when it happens, it happens to most at least once. If you handle it correctly you may only have to do it once. Once was enough for our kids....the younger learned a lot of lessons by observing the consequences dealt to the older...lol.

We also made sure to appreciate their good behavior and even 'practice' at home for times that we knew would be trying their limits. We took the kids with us for house hunting, home closings, setting up bank accounts and all of those errands you have to do when you move (4 times before they were 7 years old). Never had a problem even once. Those professional folks who regularly deal with misbehaving children were always pleasantly surprised as ours sat quietly and patiently while we finished our adult business.

Most kids are capable of behaving but it isn't a natural instinct...which is why they have parents to teach them.
 
Old 06-17-2009, 08:22 PM
 
1,122 posts, read 2,309,552 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
You don't need to be horrified, you just need to be prepared as best as you can. Don't be surprised and flustered when it happens, it happens to most at least once. If you handle it correctly you may only have to do it once. Once was enough for our kids....the younger learned a lot of lessons by observing the consequences dealt to the older...lol.

We also made sure to appreciate their good behavior and even 'practice' at home for times that we knew would be trying their limits. We took the kids with us for house hunting, home closings, setting up bank accounts and all of those errands you have to do when you move (4 times before they were 7 years old). Never had a problem even once. Those professional folks who regularly deal with misbehaving children were always pleasantly surprised as ours sat quietly and patiently while we finished our adult business.

Most kids are capable of behaving but it isn't a natural instinct...which is why they have parents to teach them.
Behaving bad is natural to children? Oh you are right. Breaking down when your basic needs are ignored for the convience of someone else or because you are not being taught the skills you need, THAT would be natural instinct.

It starts with those lazy parents who IGNORE their little infants crying in the carseat while the attend their shopping because thats what babies do. Those are the children who grow up and have "tantrums" in stores, because they don't know what else to do.
 
Old 06-17-2009, 09:51 PM
 
1,986 posts, read 4,056,854 times
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You have to ask yourself: Who is more of a disruption; the screaming child, or all the shoppers who are quietly taking care of their business.

It's obvious that a screaming child affects many and the quiet shopper affects no one. The screaming child should be removed from the store, not the quiet shoppers who are affected by the screams.
 
Old 06-18-2009, 07:49 AM
 
17,101 posts, read 16,270,803 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flik_becky View Post
Behaving bad is natural to children? Oh you are right. Breaking down when your basic needs are ignored for the convience of someone else or because you are not being taught the skills you need, THAT would be natural instinct.

It starts with those lazy parents who IGNORE their little infants crying in the carseat while the attend their shopping because thats what babies do. Those are the children who grow up and have "tantrums" in stores, because they don't know what else to do.
Children don't have tantrums because they are ignored and abused, they have them because it's a natural part of learning self control and a first step in the long process of separating self from parent. They aren't called the terrible twos for nothing . Some have only a few tantrums, some take a bit longer to go through this stage.

One of my kids had horrible tantrums - he'd pull my hair, grab my glasses off my face and throw them. He is now one of the sweetest and most well adjusted kids that I know. He is patient, kind and a great friend to other kids (he gets invited over a lot). My other child had a few, mild tantrums and that was pretty much it - also an all around nice kid.

I wouldn't ignore a crying infant in a carseat while I went on a long, extended shopping trip. But I'm also well aware that you can feed, change and bring a well rested infant into a store for a quick errand and still have them cry. It isn't always possible or practical to drop everything your doing to tend to a cranky baby's needs. Nor is it necessary, IMO.

At any rate, I think a parent's perspective is in large part due to their very individual experiences with their very individual kids.
 
Old 06-18-2009, 08:13 AM
 
4,267 posts, read 6,167,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springfieldva View Post
Children don't have tantrums because they are ignored and abused, they have them because it's a natural part of learning self control and a first step in the long process of separating self from parent. They aren't called the terrible twos for nothing . Some have only a few tantrums, some take a bit longer to go through this stage.
I agree. I never left my baby to cry in her car seat. I always held her in stores. Even at home I picked her up whenever she cried. It doesn't matter. Tantrums are a normal way of venting frustrations for someone who hasn't yet learned self control and more appropriate ways to handle their own emotions.
 
Old 06-18-2009, 09:09 AM
 
1,122 posts, read 2,309,552 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springfieldva View Post
Children don't have tantrums because they are ignored and abused, they have them because it's a natural part of learning self control and a first step in the long process of separating self from parent. They aren't called the terrible twos for nothing . Some have only a few tantrums, some take a bit longer to go through this stage.

One of my kids had horrible tantrums - he'd pull my hair, grab my glasses off my face and throw them. He is now one of the sweetest and most well adjusted kids that I know. He is patient, kind and a great friend to other kids (he gets invited over a lot). My other child had a few, mild tantrums and that was pretty much it - also an all around nice kid.

I wouldn't ignore a crying infant in a carseat while I went on a long, extended shopping trip. But I'm also well aware that you can feed, change and bring a well rested infant into a store for a quick errand and still have them cry. It isn't always possible or practical to drop everything your doing to tend to a cranky baby's needs. Nor is it necessary, IMO.

At any rate, I think a parent's perspective is in large part due to their very individual experiences with their very individual kids.
Its obvious to see why your children had tantrums then, " isn't always possible or practical to drop everything your doing to tend to a cranky baby's needs. Nor is it necessary, IMO." Wow! Thats neglect.

My parenting style started when they are babies. In cultures we tend to look down upon as less cultured, there is a beliefs that allow babies to not need to cry for their needs, and even start potty training at birth because diapers are unsanitary by watching their phycial cues and I read a lot of about it in my research about different parenting styles. When my first child was born, I had it with one nurse who was just plan stupid in my opinion. I wouldn't let her take her from my room, but then she'd remove my baby out of reach of me. (I had a c-section with her). I woke up to my baby moving around and I called her down to change her. She told me that she didn't need to be changed because she wasn't crying. I insisted that she checked and I was right. And the entire 36 hour stay there (one night and the next day) was like this, well that night anyway until I got up and moved the bed myself next to me. The nurses would watch me with my baby and they would keep commenting on things like she they had yet to hear her cry, ect. The morning I went home, I still believed I'd be there for the full three days and in walked 3 doctors and 5 nurses, all drinking their coffee, lounging on my bed and leaning on the wall, just talking away and watching me. I was terrified because my mother almost had me taken away at the hospital due to her immaturity and I was terrified I had done something wrong, my biggest fear that had inspired all my research. After about an hour, they all left except my nurse. I asked her what was going on and they all wanted to just watch my amzing connection with my baby, they'd never seen anything like it and had left to talk about sending me home because there was nothing more they could do for us.

I DO NOT think it is ok for a baby to cry when they are hungry, need to be burped, changed, ect. Babies express themselves through bodily movements, eye contact and facial expressions. If you paid close enough attention to these things, you can figure out what your child needs before they flip out on you. I had the most content babies, all thanks to my neglectful mother who believed babies needed to be left along to cry it out daily. I had spent years of listening to it with my heart going out to my siblings, not being allowed to soothe the baby by proving their basic needs.

When I see a kid flipping out in a store and a parent not doing anything about it, my heart goes out to the kid, even if its over not getting what they want. It's the parents fault, not the child's. I am always concerned when parents put the blame on the child. It makes me sick that we blame children who are too young to verbally express themselves for our inability to connect with them and listen to their physical cues that tell us everything we ever need to know about them.

Tantrums are easily avoided if you watch for key details your children do, each differently from the next, and attack that basic need before they flip out. But in our "its all about me" society, most parents have lost the ability to have that more primitive, emotional and mental connection with their infants that we are trying to rip away from other cultures by sending them baby forumla and telling them how to raise their children.
 
Old 06-18-2009, 09:49 AM
 
4,267 posts, read 6,167,403 times
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I agree that you can read a lot from your baby's facial expressions and body language. I always responded to my baby. I "wore" her in wraps and slings. She would cry when I put her down so she was held almost constantly as a baby. I co-slept and breastfed on demand. I discovered that a part of her crying was related to food intolerance's so I removed all of those foods from her diet (and mine since I was breastfeeding) and it helped but she still cried. She's a very sensitive kid and becomes overwhelmed by her emotions easily. She was an early talker and guess what, she still cried. Try not to judge. It's who she is. As she gets older she will learn more socially appropriate ways to deal with her frustrations. It's not going to happen overnight, it's a process and something that we deal with every single day. She's already learned some coping strategies but there's a lot more to learn and in the meantime there's going to be meltdowns. If your kids are more mellow and don't cry then good for you, consider yourself lucky.

Crying is not a bad thing, in fact it is a natural way to release stress. I don't agree with letting babies cry it out alone but to hold a baby in your arms and let them cry is not a bad thing at all. Crying releases stress. Don't you feel better after a good cry?

Some interesting research on tears:
Miscellaneous Musings: The Healing Power of Tears
Quote:
Frey compared tears induced from sadness with tears caused by cutting a raw onion. He found that the tears caused by emotional stimuli contained more total protein than those that resulted from irritation. Frey proposes that the emotionally based tears contained high levels of cortisal, which is the primary hormone released during stressful situations. This suggests that we may be literally releasing toxins from our system when we cry, and that crying itself may support our overall wellbeing. Psychologists intuitively have understood the healing power of tears and often encourage people to allow their tears to flow freely, unobstructed by any internal sensors that might shut them off.
Crying for Comfort by Aletha Solter, Ph.D.
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