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Old 06-21-2009, 03:29 AM
 
467 posts, read 979,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
Take it for what it's worth (I have only 16 years or so of parenting under my belt) but you'd be wise not to threaten what you do not intend to do. At some point you will be tested, put in the position to back your words with actions....or not. Every parent makes mistakes but I try not to put myself in that position intentionally and have learned it is better to lessen the consequence and follow through than to threaten something more severe that you never intend to do.

Please don't get the wrong idea...I'm not suggesting you follow through with the threat to brush their teeth with soap , I'm suggesting you find a more appropriate consequence and be prepared to follow through if needed.


BTW, the same applies to making a promise with the same lack of intention. Say what you mean and mean what you say.
That is very true. I usually stick to that. My only flub is when he's having an Autistic type episode and I tell him if he does this (getting physically violent and screaming and throwing things) to the wrong people that aren't family one day he could and will end up either in a mental hospital or jail. Eventually, he'll realize that hasn't happened yet to him and start shrugging me off.

But what this kid doesn't realize in my case is that he's only ever around family and sometimes school. He isn't really ever out of our house and social, so mom and dad are it. He hasn't actually gone off on a cop or total stranger yet. My warning to him is when the day finally comes that he DOES go off on the wrong person, thats what could happen.

But I do agree with you. IMHO, as well, getting anything disgusting put in your mouth forcibly is a form of torture that only creates resentment based thru fear, not a lesson learning tool other than to not do "whatever" around that person. I mean how would THEY like it and would it really stop them from swearing or whatever? Probably only around that person, at best.

 
Old 06-21-2009, 03:41 AM
 
467 posts, read 979,580 times
Reputation: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalayjones View Post
... I see a lot of older kids (5 - 9) acting horrid in the stores because they want to go home, they want this, they want that and I feel sorry for them for having mothers who allow them to act so ugly in public.....
Well Dad here can tell ya its not always that black and white.

We walk into situations without knowing the history of whats happening and we draw conclusions that are really unfair if you think about it about these total strangers based on the few moments our lives cross paths. Thats human nature I suppose. We do the same based on how people look and find out they are very different than how they appear to be.

Anyway, those 9+ year olds are sometimes kids with Autistic type problems that have no to little control over their actions. No its not an excuse, but if mom or DAD stopped everything they were doing everytime Junior had an episode, well they wouldn't get much done. Those parents have YEARS of dealing with this and have learned to tune it out and pick their battles. You have to or you'll go nuts yourself or even become an abusive parent who's never learned to role with the punches (sometimes thats literal btw).

If it gets disruptive enough then yes, its time for a trip to the car, some cool down (and harsh words sometimes) and hopefully resume where you left off.

But if it looks like they are just letting it happen, think about that. Yes many parents just dont care, but others may be going thru alot at home with this kid, as well and they've just learned they cannot mentally fight every waking moment of the day. Getting in an autistic-type kid's face whose having a meltdown is a futile act anyways. As they a very irrational and often communicating with them is pointless until they've calmed a bit. In fact, reacting to them sometimes makes it worse. So "ignoring" them as long as they aren't getting physical, may be what these parents have learned what works best for them. Its annoying no doubt, I know, but think what the humiliation the parent must be trying to mask (Yes, thats my kid. We're so....proud...sigh...)
 
Old 06-21-2009, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Orlando, FL
12,200 posts, read 18,309,039 times
Reputation: 6655
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMom2 View Post
Well Dad here can tell ya its not always that black and white.

We walk into situations without knowing the history of whats happening and we draw conclusions that are really unfair if you think about it about these total strangers based on the few moments our lives cross paths. Thats human nature I suppose. We do the same based on how people look and find out they are very different than how they appear to be.

Anyway, those 9+ year olds are sometimes kids with Autistic type problems that have no to little control over their actions. No its not an excuse, but if mom or DAD stopped everything they were doing everytime Junior had an episode, well they wouldn't get much done. Those parents have YEARS of dealing with this and have learned to tune it out and pick their battles. You have to or you'll go nuts yourself or even become an abusive parent who's never learned to role with the punches (sometimes thats literal btw).

If it gets disruptive enough then yes, its time for a trip to the car, some cool down (and harsh words sometimes) and hopefully resume where you left off.

But if it looks like they are just letting it happen, think about that. Yes many parents just dont care, but others may be going thru alot at home with this kid, as well and they've just learned they cannot mentally fight every waking moment of the day. Getting in an autistic-type kid's face whose having a meltdown is a futile act anyways. As they a very irrational and often communicating with them is pointless until they've calmed a bit. In fact, reacting to them sometimes makes it worse. So "ignoring" them as long as they aren't getting physical, may be what these parents have learned what works best for them. Its annoying no doubt, I know, but think what the humiliation the parent must be trying to mask (Yes, thats my kid. We're so....proud...sigh...)
You're reaching here and trying to use an exception as a rule. I have a cousin with Austim - when she have episodes her mother immediately gets down to her eye level and tries to talk to her quietly. If she can't calm her down, then she just takes her outside. She doesn't just keep walking through the store oblivious to the screaming, crying child behind her.

There is nothing wrong with those kids who are hitting and calling their parents foul names and screaming while Mom just walks around looking at shoes, except lack of home training.
 
Old 06-21-2009, 03:10 PM
 
16,886 posts, read 16,149,541 times
Reputation: 28119
Quote:
Originally Posted by flik_becky View Post
Its obvious to see why your children had tantrums then, " isn't always possible or practical to drop everything your doing to tend to a cranky baby's needs. Nor is it necessary, IMO." Wow! Thats neglect.

My parenting style started when they are babies. In cultures we tend to look down upon as less cultured, there is a beliefs that allow babies to not need to cry for their needs, and even start potty training at birth because diapers are unsanitary by watching their phycial cues and I read a lot of about it in my research about different parenting styles. When my first child was born, I had it with one nurse who was just plan stupid in my opinion. I wouldn't let her take her from my room, but then she'd remove my baby out of reach of me. (I had a c-section with her). I woke up to my baby moving around and I called her down to change her. She told me that she didn't need to be changed because she wasn't crying. I insisted that she checked and I was right. And the entire 36 hour stay there (one night and the next day) was like this, well that night anyway until I got up and moved the bed myself next to me. The nurses would watch me with my baby and they would keep commenting on things like she they had yet to hear her cry, ect. The morning I went home, I still believed I'd be there for the full three days and in walked 3 doctors and 5 nurses, all drinking their coffee, lounging on my bed and leaning on the wall, just talking away and watching me. I was terrified because my mother almost had me taken away at the hospital due to her immaturity and I was terrified I had done something wrong, my biggest fear that had inspired all my research. After about an hour, they all left except my nurse. I asked her what was going on and they all wanted to just watch my amzing connection with my baby, they'd never seen anything like it and had left to talk about sending me home because there was nothing more they could do for us.

I DO NOT think it is ok for a baby to cry when they are hungry, need to be burped, changed, ect. Babies express themselves through bodily movements, eye contact and facial expressions. If you paid close enough attention to these things, you can figure out what your child needs before they flip out on you. I had the most content babies, all thanks to my neglectful mother who believed babies needed to be left along to cry it out daily. I had spent years of listening to it with my heart going out to my siblings, not being allowed to soothe the baby by proving their basic needs.

When I see a kid flipping out in a store and a parent not doing anything about it, my heart goes out to the kid, even if its over not getting what they want. It's the parents fault, not the child's. I am always concerned when parents put the blame on the child. It makes me sick that we blame children who are too young to verbally express themselves for our inability to connect with them and listen to their physical cues that tell us everything we ever need to know about them.

Tantrums are easily avoided if you watch for key details your children do, each differently from the next, and attack that basic need before they flip out. But in our "its all about me" society, most parents have lost the ability to have that more primitive, emotional and mental connection with their infants that we are trying to rip away from other cultures by sending them baby forumla and telling them how to raise their children.
It sounds as though you had a pretty rough childhood and are still working through some emotional pain associated with that. I'm sorry. In spite of those scars, it sounds like you are a very attentive and caring mother which is wonderful.

For the record, I would never let a hungry/wet/tired/gassy baby cry for long stretches without comfort. That would be neglectful.

But you can take care of all of those needs, put a happy baby down to play with the mobile while you go get your (very quick) shower and as soon as you step under the water - they cry. Or you can get into the car to drive three blocks to a friend's house and the baby will cry. Or you can dash into the store to grab a gallon of milk with your infant and 3 year old - and the baby will cry. As long as the baby isn't in discomfort (high pitched cry), it sometimes is better to just hurry up and finish the shower/drive/errand....

Also, I have never met a baby that didn't cry or a toddler that never had tantrums. Never. In fact, I would be *much* more concerned if a baby rarely cried or a young child didn't pitch an occasional fit.

Last edited by springfieldva; 06-21-2009 at 03:43 PM..
 
Old 06-22-2009, 04:52 AM
 
467 posts, read 979,580 times
Reputation: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalayjones View Post
You're reaching here and trying to use an exception as a rule. I have a cousin with Austim - when she have episodes her mother immediately gets down to her eye level and tries to talk to her quietly. If she can't calm her down, then she just takes her outside. She doesn't just keep walking through the store oblivious to the screaming, crying child behind her.

There is nothing wrong with those kids who are hitting and calling their parents foul names and screaming while Mom just walks around looking at shoes, except lack of home training.
Its not reaching to point out that everything isn't just as black or white that people on the internet usually make things out to be. Those shades of gray in between are often overlooked and never considered, hence "not knowing the whole story" and making a very human natured assumption that the kid is just a brat or the parents are bad people in some way and thats not always the case. As such I was pointing that out.

You don't know and cannot say without a doubt that "there is nothing wrong with those kids" unless you know them personally and know that family's home life.

That is not reaching. That is a fact. Rare as it may be to you personally, many of us with mentally troubled kids live with this crap every blessed day and it plain sucks.

Autism takes different levels and different effects on every single person. There is no one way autism effects someone. You can have 100 autistic kids together who all act very differently. Talking to my son quietly during a anger issue is pointless, he isn't "with us anymore" at that stage. If it gets bad, I take him outside, thats about all you can do. They may go for years working thru there issues and learning how to reign in their problems socially. Parents, doctors and meds can only do so much, in the end its really up to them and their ability to cope.

Autism itself is a very broad term for various mental disabilities, btw. Mine has PDD-NOS, General Anxiety Disorder, and Sever Anger Management. So ya... we have a fun filled childhood to go thru here. Compared to his one friend with just regular ole Autism, the friend seems pretty mature and put together, which is sad for my kid who seems to be stuck in 2nd grade mentally (he's a 5th grader now). Its very awkward but considered normal for kids like him. As he gets older his brain will mature (albeit slowly) but as an adult it won't be as noticeable. (ex: how does a 48 yr old differ much from a 43 yr old in mental maturity? not much)
 
Old 06-22-2009, 09:01 AM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,901 posts, read 42,538,579 times
Reputation: 42762
Quote:
Originally Posted by flik_becky View Post
Its obvious to see why your children had tantrums then, " isn't always possible or practical to drop everything your doing to tend to a cranky baby's needs. Nor is it necessary, IMO." Wow! Thats neglect.

My parenting style started when they are babies. In cultures we tend to look down upon as less cultured, there is a beliefs that allow babies to not need to cry for their needs, and even start potty training at birth because diapers are unsanitary by watching their phycial cues and I read a lot of about it in my research about different parenting styles. When my first child was born, I had it with one nurse who was just plan stupid in my opinion. I wouldn't let her take her from my room, but then she'd remove my baby out of reach of me. (I had a c-section with her). I woke up to my baby moving around and I called her down to change her. She told me that she didn't need to be changed because she wasn't crying. I insisted that she checked and I was right. And the entire 36 hour stay there (one night and the next day) was like this, well that night anyway until I got up and moved the bed myself next to me. The nurses would watch me with my baby and they would keep commenting on things like she they had yet to hear her cry, ect. The morning I went home, I still believed I'd be there for the full three days and in walked 3 doctors and 5 nurses, all drinking their coffee, lounging on my bed and leaning on the wall, just talking away and watching me. I was terrified because my mother almost had me taken away at the hospital due to her immaturity and I was terrified I had done something wrong, my biggest fear that had inspired all my research. After about an hour, they all left except my nurse. I asked her what was going on and they all wanted to just watch my amzing connection with my baby, they'd never seen anything like it and had left to talk about sending me home because there was nothing more they could do for us.

I DO NOT think it is ok for a baby to cry when they are hungry, need to be burped, changed, ect. Babies express themselves through bodily movements, eye contact and facial expressions. If you paid close enough attention to these things, you can figure out what your child needs before they flip out on you. I had the most content babies, all thanks to my neglectful mother who believed babies needed to be left along to cry it out daily. I had spent years of listening to it with my heart going out to my siblings, not being allowed to soothe the baby by proving their basic needs.

When I see a kid flipping out in a store and a parent not doing anything about it, my heart goes out to the kid, even if its over not getting what they want. It's the parents fault, not the child's. I am always concerned when parents put the blame on the child. It makes me sick that we blame children who are too young to verbally express themselves for our inability to connect with them and listen to their physical cues that tell us everything we ever need to know about them.

Tantrums are easily avoided if you watch for key details your children do, each differently from the next, and attack that basic need before they flip out. But in our "its all about me" society, most parents have lost the ability to have that more primitive, emotional and mental connection with their infants that we are trying to rip away from other cultures by sending them baby forumla and telling them how to raise their children.
It's great that your methods worked so well for you. My sister-in-law raised her son much the same way, making everything all about him, and he is exceptionally whiny and clingy.
 
Old 06-22-2009, 09:04 AM
 
20 posts, read 17,625 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
It's great that your methods worked so well for you. My sister-in-law raised her son much the same way, making everything all about him, and he is exceptionally whiny and clingy.
Did that with my son when he was very little. I can't have more kids so I doted over him and now I'm trying to break this selfishness he's going thru now. I never meant to turn him spoiled and clingy. Its just that he was my whole world for awhile and I didn't realize I was doing it until recently and now I have to retrain him. Hard.
 
Old 06-22-2009, 09:11 AM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,901 posts, read 42,538,579 times
Reputation: 42762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanishrose1 View Post
Did that with my son when he was very little. I can't have more kids so I doted over him and now I'm trying to break this selfishness he's going thru now. I never meant to turn him spoiled and clingy. Its just that he was my whole world for awhile and I didn't realize I was doing it until recently and now I have to retrain him. Hard.
I think that happens with the best of intentions. I know my sister-in-law certainly had them, and it's not like I'm a perfect mom. We did let our kids cry for a bit if they were changed, fed and otherwise comfortable; of course we didn't make our kids go hungry or sit in a wet diaper, and we checked that they weren't being pinched or poked or lying on a toy. But sometimes babies fuss, and we'd let them fuss for a few minutes before soothing them. That horrifies some parents, who apparently believe not instantly swooping in equals neglect, but some parents DO swoop in and end up with coddled, needy children. Every child is different, and all we can do is try our best. It's laughable to think that any one method will work on every kid.

I was fortunate to have easygoing babies who didn't cry very much. I chalk that up to luck, not my parenting choices.
 
Old 06-22-2009, 09:43 AM
 
4,267 posts, read 6,157,770 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
I think that happens with the best of intentions. I know my sister-in-law certainly had them, and it's not like I'm a perfect mom. We did let our kids cry for a bit if they were changed, fed and otherwise comfortable; of course we didn't make our kids go hungry or sit in a wet diaper, and we checked that they weren't being pinched or poked or lying on a toy. But sometimes babies fuss, and we'd let them fuss for a few minutes before soothing them. That horrifies some parents, who apparently believe not instantly swooping in equals neglect, but some parents DO swoop in and end up with coddled, needy children. Every child is different, and all we can do is try our best. It's laughable to think that any one method will work on every kid.

I was fortunate to have easygoing babies who didn't cry very much. I chalk that up to luck, not my parenting choices.
I agree with everything that you said here except for this:
Quote:
but some parents DO swoop in and end up with coddled, needy children.
We all parent differently and do what feels best for ourselves, our families and our children and just becasue someone always "swoops in" doesn't mean that all of those kids end up coddled and needy.
 
Old 06-22-2009, 09:48 AM
 
4,267 posts, read 6,157,770 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMom2 View Post
Its not reaching to point out that everything isn't just as black or white that people on the internet usually make things out to be. Those shades of gray in between are often overlooked and never considered, hence "not knowing the whole story" and making a very human natured assumption that the kid is just a brat or the parents are bad people in some way and thats not always the case. As such I was pointing that out.
Thank you for pointing this out. When you see a kid having a tantrum you never know the whole story. There are so many different factors at play and you can't just blame it one thing. People and relationships are complicated and it's never that simple.
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